| Aug 23 @ 8:34 PM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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I'll start off by saying that this is just an EXAMPLE of something that has always bothered me...it could have been in the hypocracy thread or in the one it was posted in iriginally, but all the threads have gone so far off track that it's impossible to have a rational discussion any more.
Again, this is an "issue" and NOT a "personal attack" the writer. Frankly, I was appalled to read this and I just want to know what makes these kind of people tick -- what is the justification when they SINCERLY believe they are following the teachings and word of Jesus/God...or whatever "rule book" they ascribe to.
I'm asking to PLEASE refrain from making comments about the person who posted this, and to PLEASE stick to the ISSUE, which in my mind is what is it that gives "annointed ones" the right to CHEAT? Is it that "free ticket"? Or what? 
You know, I have a son in law who is working on an online diploma, and I would never put anyone down who works toward one of those, either, his work is very hard, I have helped him with some of it. I know what secular college work is, I did all my nieces themes and dissertations to get her through college at A&M, and most of her homework. I sure was glad when she graduated, lol.
Go take one of those online college courses, knotts, just try one of them, you will see. They are not easy, and maybe even more difficult that the ones I helped my niece with in college. And helping her is NOT bragging, it was a BIG headache, she never did her work, never studied and her mother always begged me to do it for her daughter. What I didn't do, my sister did. Of course, it did my niece no good, just like I told my sis that it wouldn't. She has been out of college for five years now and still doesn't even have a job that pays more than minimum wages, and that job is working for her dad. She shows no more incentive now than she did in college, which is no surprise.
The reason that this got to me is it's only a coincidence that I posted a "confession" in the some thread earlier this week. It was about how I wrote a paper, a 2 1/2 page essay, for one of my husbands college courses ONCE (Philosophy 101)...and that was after him seriously agonizing over the topic, endless discussions between us that week -- he simply could not pull his thoughts together and put them on paper for this required course -- he was very close to packing it in and dropping out of school because of it. 
Kind of as a joke, kind of as a challenge, kind of as "incentive" I decided to try my hand at doing that essay (remember, we'd discussed the topic together extensively and I used his thoughts but my writing techniques/ability). I was probably close to 30 and had never been to college but had generally always been pretty good at expressing myself in writing. He shined at technical and "logical" coursework, but this "philosophy junk" overwhelmed him (even though he practiced an enviable upstanding life-philosophy).
The day the paper was due, I begged him to cheat once in his life...for our sake, for our future, despite the fact that it went against all our principles. It was a very minor "transgretion" in the scheme of things, but something that's bothered me for YEARS (at least 30!) -- It was a dumb bullsh*t paper that the instructor probably never read, because I got an "A" on it...it was more like a "C-" paper to tell the truth. 
The only GOOD things to come of it was that it gave me incentive and validation that I, too, could maybe someday do OK in college (which I did, later on)...and he muddled through the rest of the course with a passing grade and eventually got his batchelor's degree (carefully avoiding any more "philosophy junk" courses, lol).
BUT we both STILL live with the guilt over that singular incident...and that's WITHOUT the "fear factor" of punishment by Jesus/God.
So what makes it OK for someone to blatantly cheat the WORLD by aiding an unqualified person to receive a college degree from a well respected university by cheating?..."themes", "homework", "dissertations", all plural, not a one time act of desperation.
An Aggie does not lie, cheat, or steal
or tolerate those who do.The Aggie Code of Honor is an effort to unify the aims of all Texas A&M men and women toward a high code of ethics and personal dignity. For most, living under this code will be no problem, as it asks nothing of a person that is beyond reason. It only calls for honesty and integrity, characteristics that Aggies have always exemplified. The Aggie Code of Honor functions as a symbol to all Aggies, promoting understanding and loyalty to truth and confidence in each other. http://www.tamu.edu/aggiehonor/Student%20Rules/definitions.html
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| Aug 23 @ 8:34 PM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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cont.
"Honesty and Integrity"...as a non-religious person, I can still be honest and say I've hit a couple of bumps in the road during my lifetime in those areas -- but I can also say that I could NEVER proclaim to be holier-than-thou while sitting on top of a pile of LIES...no matter WHO (or what) "forgave me" (or when). I have to answer to ME forever, and though I can "justify" my one "bullsh*t essay", I can't forgive myself...and I shouldn't. I cheated, plain and simple. Why should I expect someone/something else -- as in Jesus/God/whomever -- to say "It's OK"? 
Pehaps I just have a screwed up moral compass...but I'm alright with it, as is, without the so-called "blessing" of outside influences. If that destins me to hell, so be it. I'd rather be there, with honest people, than spend an eternity with hypocrites who consider themselves the "chosen ones" through their religion. 
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| Aug 23 @ 9:09 PM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Very interesting Sunny and its nice to have a new and decent thread again.
Personally, I hadnt taken too much notice of the postings in which were partly directed at me:
Go take one of those online college courses, knotts, just try one of them, you will see.
It is extremely rare I let light to my personal life but here I shall because of the reference.
In the UK school finishes at the age of 16. The UK has an advanced educational system. Part of my teens were here in the USA under the USA school systems where I had to attend Junior High with students two years older than myself. We returned to the UK when I was 15 years old and hence left school with little education at the age of 16. I joined the military as a marine engineering mechanic. After one year in the military I began taking educational courses with officers helping me a great deal. I also studied and applied for every military course available which excelled my rate/rank up the ladder to gain promotion quickly. It was extremely hard work sat alone, often for months at sea in a ship's steel compartment with blaring machinery noise and duties to attend too. After a few more years with education and advancement I started on the UK Government commission Open University B.A. degree course, first by completeing a London College course in Sociology as a pre-requisit.
I had dreamed to be a Clinical Psychiatrist~! Hence I had to take a BA in Social Sciences first which would take 8 years part time home study and College summer schools for most summers at a host University. Each week required minimum part time 14 hours and often it doubled that~!
All this on top of work, raising a familhy, et cetera.
A few years of this and with enough credits under my belt I would be able to attend full time university if I so wished. By this time the thought of dissecting animals and cadavers which was then a requirement for clinical psychiatrists put me totally off. I could not come to terms to harm life in this way. (Ironically a few years later the British Educational System and the animal rights group had this removed from study and practice).
Anyhow, I decided to head towards Theoretical Physics and Mathematics, changing mid-way on the Degree programme. Several more years past. Through divorce and circumstance I was able to attend full time University to read a BSc Hons in Mathematics and Theoretical Physics. This took four years~! Hard graft. Working a full time job between lectures and studies and having a family.
My last year of study was for an MA in Marine Resource Management.
So you could say I have tried "study" in all its aspects, within the enirons of military career, within part time home study, at full time University and to this day at my own leisure.
Because I have often heard people say they have studied yet show no signs of an intellectual ability to rationalise thought or knowledges placed in front of them, I can only smile with an occsional laugh.
Unfortunately, individuals in all walks of life have delusions of Self. Few people will take a hard working route through life. In all its complexities there are easy routes the weak minded individuals will exploit for themselves and those around them who they can benefit from the exploit.
These same weak minded individuals are easily impressionable and hence their strong attachments to dogmatic faiths.
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| Aug 24 @ 7:40 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Yes, sun, it is indeed a personal attack, but it is okay.
Like you did for your husband when you wrote his dissertation, I felt compassion for my SISTER, not my niece. She was the one who was in terrible distress. I had to choose between turning down my sister or doing what she and MY MOTHER were begging me to do or hurting them. I could never hurt my mom. I am not perfect, sun, like you, and unlike you, I don't claim to be. My mom was on her DEATHBED when my niece graduated. That gave her peace. Like I said, which, you conveniently left out. my niece has no more incentive now than she did in college and is working at minimum wages for her dad. She has been out of college for a number of years. So, like I told my sister, my niece would never benefit from other people doing her work. Do I feel guilty, no. It did her no good, just as I knew it wouldn't. Would I do it again, YES, for my mom's sake. She was very ill at that time, I would NEVER have denied her that peace of mind. She wanted to see my niece, whom she dearly loved out of college, not just for my niece but for my sister, who had been paying for her education for seven years. Now, did that hurt ANYONE but my niece? I don't think so.
So, you go right ahead and be Ms. self-righteous, better than anyone else, and keep on with your attacks, they only make YOU look bad. I will opt for love over your attitude, or what you call your morality, any old day.
Knotts, weak minds, jump to attack before they know the facts.
[Edited on 8/24/2008 7:51 AM]
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| Aug 24 @ 7:45 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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JesusC
Posts: 124
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So, you go right ahead and be Ms. self-righteous, better than anyone else and keep on with your attacks, they only make YOU look bad.
Doesn't change the fact that you cheated for your neice. I've seen how you write and plagurize in these threads. She must've gotten low marks on those papers.
Your Neice's degree is about as solid as yours. They should have printed those on softer paper so at least you could have wiped your ass with it after you shit.
THis is what Sun said in her OP:
I'm asking to PLEASE refrain from making comments about the person who posted this
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| Aug 24 @ 7:58 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Like she REFRAINED from making remarks about ME, goose.
Yeah, about like YOU did just now. I see you never wrote the college, hmm,
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| Aug 24 @ 8:00 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Bev,
Would I do it again, YES, for my mom's sake. She was very ill at that time, I would NEVER have denied her that peace of mind. She wanted to see my niece, whom she dearly loved out of college, not just for my niece but for my sister, who had been paying for her education for seven years. I can't believe this woman. You cheated and should have your own degrees taken away. How could anyone know who actually took your courses and wrote your papers? You obviously have no respect for what a degree stands for.
You haven't even repented for it, otherwise you would not say that you would do it again.
Now everyone knows why you choose to believe in your brand of christianity. You can continue to cheat, never repent, plan to sin again if necessary, and still be saved by your delusional invisible man in the sky.
You are a winner!
You can't even admit that what you did was wrong. Instead you make excuses and admit you will do it again. How far would you go to make your mother happy? Murder? Larceny?
You are one sick puppy!
I see you never wrote the college, hmm, No one seens to have written yet!
Seems to me the college would be concerned with one of its Masters graduates is admitting to cheating in public forums.
You better hope that no one contacts your rinky dink college. I would think that it has some kind of standards it expects its students and alumni to adhear to.
Peace
[Edited on 8/24/2008 8:05 AM]
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| Aug 24 @ 8:05 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Very clever, wasn't it, no personal attack, but not as clever as she thought, as she used cuts and pastes of my words. THAT makes it a personal attack.
You know, people need to examine things and find out things before they do this stuff. It was uncalled for, to say the least, and in the end, turned out to be very inhuman considering the circumstances, which she didn't even bother to find out first.
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| Aug 24 @ 8:13 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Bev,
turned out to be very inhuman considering the circumstances, which she didn't even bother to find out first. Excuses ..... Excuses ..... Excuses !
No guilt at all ! No repentence ! No remorse ! Not a shred of integrity !
BUT SHE WILL BE SAVED BECAUSE JESUS' BLOOD HIDES HER CHEATING FROM GOD !!!!!
Christians, you should re-evaluate you beliefs. Your christian dogma doesn't make sense!
Peace
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| Aug 24 @ 8:22 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Lol, sail, you only show your true colors. It only hurt my niece, no one else. Her degree, she will never use it.
And do it again, YOU BET I would, for my mom who was dying, ANYDAY. Now, if it had the potential to hurt anyone else, NEVER, but then my mom would never have asked me to do anything that would hurt anyone else.
My niece never wanted to do anything other than work on an animal preserve in the first place, and the courses she took had nothing to do with that.
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| Aug 24 @ 8:31 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Seems to me the college would be concerned with one of its Masters graduates is admitting to cheating in public forums.
I doubt it would even care except to have it exposed as a garbage institution. Its not a real college. Its an organization that mills diplomas with a few home skewled courses. It has no real campus. It's website isn't even put together well and how hard is that to do?
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| Aug 24 @ 9:11 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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You know what, when you cheat in school, you only cheat yourself.
I don't think they would be concerned because I did ALL my own work.
Jesus said, "And the greatest of these is love."
So, if I err, let it be on the side of love.
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| Aug 24 @ 9:13 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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And do it again, YOU BET I would, for my mom who was dying, ANYDAY. As I said before:Excuses ..... Excuses ..... Excuses !
No guilt at all ! No repentence ! No remorse ! Not a shred of integrity !
BUT SHE WILL BE SAVED BECAUSE JESUS' BLOOD HIDES HER CHEATING FROM GOD !!!!!
Christians, you should re-evaluate you beliefs. Your christian dogma doesn't make sense!
MD christians,
You have been backing this nut case, but can't to see the flaws in her thinking. Is this person close to understanding righteousness? Does this sound like a person that has been born again in the holy spirit? Should a person like this be your representative as a christian minister?
Why don't you speak up against this warped form of thinking?
I guess all of you are not speaking up because you are of the same mind set as Bev.
I notice how you hold back your comments about her when she truely exposes her true self.
Peace
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| Aug 24 @ 9:17 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Jesus said, "And the greatest of these is love."
So, if I err, let it be on the side of love. Still no guilt ! No repentence ! No remorse ! Not a shred of integrity !
Peace
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| Aug 24 @ 9:22 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I don't think they would be concerned because I did ALL my own work. And you learned what?
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| Aug 24 @ 9:25 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Wow, sail, you must be some kind of monster, to deny your dying mother something that was soooo important to her and hurt no one but someone who wanted that, too.
Who got hurt, sail?
My niece? HER choice.
At least, I didn't hurt my mom who was DYING.
You just go ahead and hang on to your "integrity" which, by the way, includes lots of attacks and lies, some integrity.
People with true integrity have no need to attack others. Now that should be a big GUILT factor.
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| Aug 24 @ 9:29 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I don't think they would be concerned because I did ALL my own work. And you learned what?
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| Aug 24 @ 9:38 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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So what kind of garbage did you learn?
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| Aug 24 @ 9:39 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Bev,
Still no guilt ! No repentence ! No remorse ! Not a shred of integrity !
Peace
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| Aug 24 @ 9:46 AM |
1/2 religious 1/2 philosophical moral issues |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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I have made my peace with God, sail.
He forgives me, I forgive me. I am not going to live in guilt, that is psychologically damaging, especially for something that hurt no one but my willing niece and made my DYING mother happy.
Now, you just hang on to your "integrity" that kind of integrity is called PRIDE, EGO, sail, and means you don't have a shred of love in you.
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