| Sep 2 @ 9:49 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 830
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I don't get the whole "Spiritual Warfare" thing. The Christ was not about war, he was about love. When he was arrested, he told the disciples to put down their swords, then restored the ear of one of his arresting guards. It's not about hurting, it's about healing.
Religion is best spread through peace love and understanding. Not by grinding people under the gears of a holier-than-thou tank.
If you try to show people something in you that they would like for themselves, then you may have a chance to open doors. You can't berate people into submission. You can't nag them into a committment. It has to be voluntary. That's what the Christ wanted. That was his way. Any other way is a blasphemy.
If you have already spent alot of time berating people, then the best thing you can do is just back off for a while. It's about love and acceptance for all. It's not about having a sex toy and a cigarette in one hand, then waggling a condescending finger with the other hand. Christians are not perfect. Indeed, none of them are perfect. If you knit-pick at people and tell them they are going to hell, your words ring a little hollow when you also mention loading a fresh set of batteries in your vibrator.
If you have already jaded people to the point where they are sick of it, maybe you should step aside. Observe the surgeons rule of never make the other person worse.
If you aren't doing any good, it's time for you to shut up for a while.
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| Sep 2 @ 10:08 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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Lance,
I do not mean to pull your chain, But citing the words of Jesus or the intent of his philosophy is just repeating hearsay, he never wrote anything and even Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's words were never written until between 70 to 90 AD.
Facts are facts we cannot hide from the facts...... 
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| Sep 2 @ 10:09 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Thanks Lance  We've had enough war. I know there are Christians who pray for Armageddon but they must hate their lives on earth so much they'd rather die but there are a few who worship life instead.
Death brings nothing but sorrow. Its time to wake up, grow up and live well in peace.
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| Sep 2 @ 10:10 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 830
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Lance,
I do not mean to pull your chain, But citing the words of Jesus or the intent of his philosophy is just repeating hearsay, he never wrote anything and even Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's words were never written until between 70 to 90 AD. You absolutely right. We are relying on what was written about him, not anything he actually wrote.
That is a side point, though.
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| Sep 2 @ 10:11 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Yash,
I was going to bring that up too but even a myth can help people grow spiritually if they focus on the right lessons. I think Lance is a man of peace and that is what he will draw out of it.
You might want to view the Bishop Spong thread. I think you'll enjoy the videos. I suggest you watch the 3 minute one first. You will like what he has to say and Bev hates it so much. Anything Bev hates tells us there is something good about it.
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| Sep 2 @ 10:18 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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Benevolence needs no religion and neither does embracing humanity! Just because religious institutions express their own opinions about what it is does not make it so.
What a great joy it would be, if in the process of maturation, we became open to receive experience, just as the blossoming flower receives the summer dew, and became free to accept ourselves for what we are, which is the birthright of every being, just as the life giving warmth of the sun is the right of everything that grows.
The society in which we live cannot allow us complete freedom.
Indeed, the very nature of man prohibits such a society from ever existing.
But this is not to say that we cannot blossom as does the flower. To become
fully alive, to live our lives to the full, complete in our self being,
we should accept as a gift, every moment of life.
We should use life for the purpose for which it was intended, for
living. If we choose to use it for that purpose, the whole of life becomes a
time of blossoming.
One of the major inhibitors of human blossoming is probably life itself,
for in living our lives to the full, we are required to accept that much
of what we will experience cannot be described (in terms of our 'I'ness)
as either beautiful or enjoyable. Because of this, we might erect barriers
to the reception of experience.
One of the experiences which we sometimes deny ourselves is the
experience of love. This denial may easily result from our fear of failure
because we may fear that by becoming worthy of love, we might win love, and
might then become unworthy of it, and thus lose it.
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| Sep 2 @ 5:40 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 830
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I just think that, when we do this "going into battle" thing it is misrepresenting the whole idea.
Yash,
I was going to bring that up too but even a myth can help people grow spiritually if they focus on the right lessons. I think Lance is a man of peace and that is what he will draw out of it. One thing is sure, one day we shall surely all know. We all quit this world eventually.
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| Sep 2 @ 5:46 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,243
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We all quit this world eventually.
Not me! I'm coming back again and again!  
(I just have too much curiosity about life and the planet that I can't possibly satisfy all of it in one lifetime...either the past, present, or future ones ~grin~)
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| Sep 2 @ 6:14 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Sunn
Wanna date in our next life time????
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| Sep 2 @ 6:35 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,243
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 I'm already spoken for...kinda, maybe.
Then again, who knows? 
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| Sep 2 @ 6:42 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,234
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Lance said:
Religion is best spread through peace love and understanding. Not by grinding people under the gears of a holier-than-thou tank.
May I rephrase this by saying:
Love is best spread through compassion and understanding.
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| Sep 2 @ 9:09 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I think Lance "gets it". I think no matter what religion Lance has he would express it with pretty much the same words. Religion is best spread through peace love and understanding. Its not religion that made Lance but it is Lance that made his religion and uses it to express what is within him. He is not a tool to be used by religion to express dogma. Its refreshing to see someone write in this way.
Bishop Spong said this.
The idea that the truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book, is almost beyond imagination for me. God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or Muslim or Hindu, a Buddhist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition, I walk through my tradition, but I don't believe my tradition defines God. I think it only points me to God. What Bishop Spong is saying is he recognizes all the good religions and faiths in the world as pointing towards God. No human system can bind God in their scripture but scripture helps point to it. Many religions have their own scripture.
Joseph Campbell studied all the myths of the world and had the same conclusion. They are at the heart of it basically the same in essence and like Bishop Spong, Campbell has a great deal of disappointment, perhaps disgust in Christian fundamentalism for its literal interpretation of myth as totally missing the point. Bishop Spong says Christianity needs a reformation else its better off dying off. We can see why with the likes of a few who graced these forums.
Is it any wonder why the likes of Bev and her ilk hate Spong so much and have the audacity denounce Lance as a fellow Christian? What we are witnessing is that drama unfold where one person has told egregious lies, partakes in perversion, condemns anyone not of her particular diseased religiosity try to disparage a good bishop who speaks of love and peace and a residing Christian on these forums simply because he doesn't bow down to her corrupted dogma and sick ideology.
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| Sep 2 @ 9:18 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 12,035
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The pure essence of most religions is HARM NONE.... and warfare and degradations and condemnation is surely not following those tenets... compassion.. understanding .. sharing of beliefs (NOT BEATING THEM INTO SOMEONES HEAD) and being OPEN to learning about the world around us and the WHYS of others beliefs WITHOUT doing it in a manner as to degrade your own religion or belief in the process..
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| Sep 2 @ 10:33 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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I think this is why we must scrutinize religions that talk of war and harm.
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| Sep 2 @ 11:59 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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Jankia
Posts: 9,092
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If you have already jaded people to the point where they are sick of it, maybe you should step aside. Observe the surgeons rule of never make the other person worse.
If you aren't doing any good, it's time for you to shut up for a while.
Its good you think that way Lance and I'm sure another contributor here also thinks so...if you do practice what you write.
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| Sep 3 @ 12:10 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I too believe Lance should shut up when he isn't doing any good but so far so good. I also believe Lance has the wisdom to know when he isn't doing any good before anyone else even notices. There are others not so fortunate as they lack that internal compass. They also lack wisdom, a proper education, honesty, integrity, dignity, self-respect, and especially sanity. 
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| Sep 3 @ 7:32 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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bevrice
Posts: 11,145
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Yes, Jankia, that is true.
You are a good man, Jankia, God bless.
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| Sep 3 @ 7:37 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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There can not be "lovefare" when the bible is based on hate, anger and war - "warfare."
No wonder Christians only see war with themselves.
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| Sep 3 @ 8:29 AM |
Spiritual Lovefare
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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Religion and superstition
Further information: superstition
Greek and Roman pagans, who modeled their relations with the gods on political and social terms scorned the man who constantly trembled with fear at the thought of the gods, as a slave feared a cruel and capricious master. Such fear of the gods (deisidaimonia) was what the Romans meant by superstitio (Veyne 1987, p 211). Early Christianity was outlawed as a superstitio Iudaica, a "Jewish superstition", by Domitianin the 80s AD, and by AD 425, Theodosius II outlawed pagan traditions as superstitious.
The division between superstition and religious faith is subjective. Religious believers have often seen other religions as superstition. Likewise, some atheists, agnostics, deists, and skeptics regard religious belief as superstition. Religious practices are most likely to be labeled "superstitious" by outsiders when they include belief in extraordinary events (miracles), an afterlife, supernatural interventions, apparitions or the efficacy of prayer, charms, incantations, the meaningfulness of omens, and prognostications.
The Roman Catholic Church considers superstition to be sinful in the sense that it denotes a lack of trust in the divine providence of God and, as such, is a violation of the first of the Ten Commandments. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states superstition "in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion" (para. #2110).
Superstition is a deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand is to fall into superstition. Cf. Matthew 23:16-22 (para. #2111)
Religions especially monotheistic ones have been and still are Institutionalized Concepts which have been and still are state sponsored even in America.
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| Sep 3 @ 2:58 PM |
Spiritual Lovefare |
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Loreli
Posts: 20,161
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The pure essence of most religions is HARM NONE 
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