| Sep 6 @ 2:57 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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Loreli
Posts: 20,319
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From everything I have ever read, this came out of the 60s.
It has influenced music, voting, etc.
It became a FAD around the time Little Richard "became" one
My church never has believed in it. We will sin as long as we live. That is WHY Jesus gave his life.
So, please tell me any experiences you have had with this.
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| Sep 6 @ 3:02 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Its just a catch all phrase to brainwashing people. Just a new thing when it came out. Just like when Christians decided to deny being in a religion was a new thing. Its still a religion, they just say it isn't. Being born again means nothing to a Christian because there is no work involved. Its not the same born again motif that has always existed in previous religions where the initiate would be put through tests where you can pass or fail and they were real tests against actual elements.
The Christian religion is just a fast food verity off the shelf religion that doesn't do anything good for a person. Just look at the results in the Bible Belt. They are worse when it comes to crimes, vices, perversions, family abuse, alcoholism, divorce and pre-marital and extra-marital sex.
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| Sep 6 @ 3:11 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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Aeromuse
Posts: 2,820
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It means I run screaming in the opposite direction 
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| Sep 6 @ 3:37 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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Who wouldn't want to be born again? How many times in life have you ever said, "If I could go back to X time, knowing then what I know now, I would be better off"?
Every culture peddled this in their respective religious fantasy, it kept people satisfied and complacent so they wouldn't know how badly they were getting fukked by those in power.
Prometheus, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus......what's the difference? It's a way of psychologically escaping responsibilty, your eternal loophole to your fantasy world of simple black/white moral absolutes. Ends/means are justified because Big Daddy(s) in the Sky have paid your eternity bill. All you have to do is kiss their asses in some way, not unlike the works of politics and corporations in today's world, and your life will be rebooted,like all your past fukkups are forgotten. It takes sacrifice and a focused,dedicated life to the Invisible Guy, because that's what gets him off and when he gets off, the weather is nice and the economy is good.  You'll be rewarded with feelings of euphoria and contentment, solidarity and family,with your spiritual brethren who are of your like mind and assurance that regardless of what happens in the big bad world, Big Daddy in the Sky has your eternal ass covered.
More snake oil.  The reality of life is: If you live long enough, you will be born again many times. The Marine Corp calls it "overcome and adapt". Those of objectivity as an almost religion like myself,call it personal growth and evolution.  I'm 48 and have been born again by various means, many times.To give an example, I was such a purist in my profession, at one time, I once said that I would die with a film camera in my hand. Now, the reality of economic science caused me to be "born again" in the digital world. What's amazing about the concept is that each time you are reborn, the more things come full circle and you're back at basic square one. Working with digital imagery is almost exactly like working with film in it's methodology, minus the intermediate factory jobs between point A and point B.It's those steps in between that have the potential to kick your ass.  You have to just give a whistle and look on the bright side of life.  In my case, it always took working my ass off and taking full responsibilty of my actions, up to and including my own fukkups. This is my life experience and what it's taught me is that life is cyclical. Whatever is on the "other side",if, anything at all, will follow that rule. I have no fear of it. It's what's here and now and the people we all love and care about is what matters and what the Jesus character(whether historically real or not) taught. The dogmatic relion world still doesn't get it.
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| Sep 6 @ 3:48 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Christianity over the years has found it harder and harder to explain away the contradictions in its bible and dogma. So now being born again gives fanatics an out since only born agains get the true word of god. They no longer have to substantiate anything, just say the HS inspired them with the answer. They can now add, delete and change their dogma whenever they wish and say that the HS told them to.
This ploy is also used to lift one denomination over another when it comes to being "true" christians.
The HS is just another means for christians to substantiate their dogma. They created another myth, that of baptism of the spirit, to help them justify their other myths.
Peace
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| Sep 6 @ 3:54 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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Loreli
Posts: 20,319
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Ah, so "born again" is rebirth, reborn, 2nd baptism?
overcome and adapt I like that, Thor
Before I do any copy/paste, if we were born in his image, expected to sin, a 2nd baptism wouldn't be necessary. I mean, we already have the Trinity" within us, first baptis, should suffice as well as one in fire... 
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| Sep 6 @ 4:04 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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joe_kerr
Posts: 642
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My understanding of the "born again" concept is fairly simple: eliminate the negative aspects from ones life.
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| Sep 6 @ 4:08 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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Loreli
Posts: 20,319
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Don't and can't we do that without a church service?
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| Sep 6 @ 4:36 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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Don't and can't we do that without a church service?
...Or by tagging it with a "religious" label?
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| Sep 6 @ 4:46 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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joe_kerr
Posts: 642
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Don't and can't we do that without a church service?
Let's taking lying, for example, since lying is a negative aspect one should eliminate. If one constantly lies, they better have an extremely good memory and be intelligent enough to make sure all of their lies line up with each other. Otherwise, they're eventually going to get caught and pay the consequences. And no, I didn't need a church to figure that out, nor any religious leader to tell me that. It's simply common sense.
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| Sep 6 @ 4:48 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Prometheus, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus......what's the difference? It's a way of psychologically escaping responsibilty, your eternal loophole to your fantasy world of simple black/white moral absolutes. Ends/means are justified because Big Daddy(s) in the Sky have paid your eternity bill.
This leads right into what Bishop Spong says.
The church doesn't like for people to grow up because because you can't control grown ups. That's why we talk about being born again. When you're born again, you're still a child. The people don't need to be born again, they need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves in the world.
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| Sep 6 @ 4:50 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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What I was taught in my church.............
"Born again" simply means you have died to your old life and have be "re-born" into the Christian life. Nothing magical.....just a phrase used to show a person has become a Christian.
And there's no baptism of any type required.
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| Sep 6 @ 4:53 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Its just a title change that supposed to mean an attitude change but we've seen what really happens to Christians. They become delusional beyond their former selves. All it means is you've joined a club of similar minded folks in much the same way as joining a club of trekies. But I think most or at least some trekies know Star Trek is science fiction. Christians are not so lucky.
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| Sep 6 @ 4:56 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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Loreli
Posts: 20,319
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All I have researched merely pointed out that "born again" is ancient....but then brought about again a few decades ago, and only 50% of Christians claim to be so.
I'm more proud to say I'm Christian, than born-again....
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| Sep 6 @ 5:18 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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Personally, I feel I was born OK the first time. (That's not to say I haven't made mistakes or haven't acknowleded and sometimes even rectified "flaws", but I feel that was due to whatever I was born with...the first time around  )
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| Sep 6 @ 5:40 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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All it means is you've joined a club of similar minded folks in much the same way as joining a club of trekies. But I think most or at least some trekies know Star Trek is science fiction. Christians are not so lucky.
Trekkies have got a bad rap. In TV interviews, they compare their enthusiam of a TV show to that of many fans of sports teams. What's the difference, one said, between going semi naked in freezing weather, painting your body in a team's colors and dressing in costumes from a popular TV show? Many of the same people who belong to Star Trek clubs also belong to other fantasy role groups such as the Creative Anachronism clubs, where people attempt to live in Mideival times, complete with jousts and court jesters. It's not much of a stretch to go from playing the role of a Klingon, complete with learning a mythical language, to portraying a 13th century Mongolian warrior.
I had a friend who was a serious trekkie, but he had a nice business angle to it. There is a curved bottle in a particular 60's episode of Star Trek that was supposedly Sorian Brandy. In reality, the prop department had found an old obscure British whiskey bottle and used it on the set as the prop. My friend had happened to be lucky enough to buy a case of the Whiskey while he was on vacation in the UK for about 15 bucks a bottle and he bought a case of 12 bottles. He transferred the whiskey to another container ( he was an occasional drinker and so bought a year's supply) and sold the empty bottles as "original Sorian Brandy" bottles for 300 dollars a piece. He sold everyone of them in less than 6 months attending 3 conventions.
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| Sep 6 @ 5:53 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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Serial, post, I know, but I was thinking about this "born again" stuff last night and all these "baptisms"...and how it ties in with what's considered "classical elements" in Greek, Pagan, Hindu, Buddhist, Tibeten, Chinese, etc cultures (I may be a little off on my "details" because I'm mostly only using my scratchy memory banks  )
Air
Water
Fire
Earth
...and in the middle of them all, that elusive "Ether"...the stuff that fills in all the spaces between the elements -- the thing that holds it all together, yet it's "intangible".
1st "Baptism by Air" -- when one takes their first breath after being born
2nd "Baptism by Water" -- whether it's "sprinkles" or full immersion or simply a non-symbolic process: an "awakening to thinking and reasoning", the factor needed to germinate the "seeds of knowlege" so that they can grow
3rd "Baptism by Fire" -- that "spirit thing", which can also refer to the state of attaining actualization and awareness and the "inner heat" felt by finally reaching the "Aha!" level
4th "Baptism by Earth" -- ashes-to-ashes, dust-to-dust, when we're put to rest by having that shovel full of dirt tossed on our dead bods...the corporeal physical elements eventually being "recycled" by MamaNature, eventually.
Yet what remains always is "ether" -- that "heaven", that "void", that "energy", or lack thereof (?) -- that "whatever you want to call it"...both binding and releasing.
OK, I made all of that up out of my head, but I think it's interesting how diverse cultures throughout history have tried incorporating those "classical elements" into their beliefs and teachings, often through "religion" and phiolosophy.
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| Sep 6 @ 5:56 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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Thor said:
...sold the empty bottles as "original Sorian Brandy" bottles for 300 dollars a piece. He sold everyone of them in less than 6 months attending 3 conventions.
 That's as bad as when I used to sell three shade of bottled "azure Caribbean water" to tourists who wanted samples to take home.
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| Sep 6 @ 6:01 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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1st "Baptism by Air" -- when one takes their first breath after being born
Reminds of the story of the priest, minister and rabbi who got together and were discussing when life began. The priest said, "I believe life begins at conception." The minister replied, "I believe life begins with the first breath". The rabbi spoke up, "Oy! Life begins when the dog dies and the kids leave home".
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| Sep 6 @ 6:02 PM |
Born-again Christians-what it means in your opinion |
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Loreli
Posts: 20,319
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Thank you Sunny....
I believe that people can reach stage 2 and 3 together.
I feel we all mess up each and every day, and use whatever cleansing method to feel we are right with the world.
I could get a new "aha!" every day.
I'm human....I'll get there...
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