| Sep 8 @ 2:14 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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In the past four years quite a number of people have asked questions on Buddhism and for the wish to find further information. A small number of these people consequently have become Buddhists to aid them in their searches for whatever they seek.
Buddhism isnt about converting, holding, controling or the wish to bolster its numbers. That isnt what the Buddha taught and it isnt what Buddhists teach.
Buddhism is very personal. It gets right down into your core beliefs and asks you to question them. It asks you to not accept what has passed to you as some sort of truth, a law or anything else. It asks you to let go of any or all preconceived notions and seek to analyse what you have and throw out concepts, let your mind open up to the absolute reality of what could ever be possible to all that you know or dont know.
It teaches how to live in this moment, not in the past and not in the future but deal with what you have now, this moment.
I hope this new thread on Buddhism could generate an interest, a focal point to debate Buddhism or even try to trash it, if thats your will but with respect. The Buddha taught to question and analyse and not to follow him blindly because he said so. Any Buddha will not want you in blind faith to become a Buddhist. Buddhist teachings arnet there or designed to convince you, to convert you or ask anything of you except to seek your own truths.
Buddhists don't concern themselves about God or god(s). They only concern themselves with the Dharma (teachings and practice) which are not about if god or gods exist or dont exist. It is "truth" or "reality."
"Thus, when sad or tragic events occur in our lives or the lives of our loved ones - as they inevitably will - Buddhists don't have to ask "Why did this happen?" This is because Buddhists don't hold onto the belief that there is a god "looking out" for his or her welfare. Buddhism is really an attitude of accepting the inevitable changes or impermanence of life, and of being grateful for every moment we are alive." - The Buddhist Attitude of God.
Hope there is enough there for discussion, debate......
Namaste
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| Sep 10 @ 1:08 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Interesting snippets...
according to the Idiots Guide
Buddhism caused the first printed book.
Created the first monastic order, one that included women too.
Knew no barriers of race or class.
Was the first universal religion under King Askoka.
Civilized and unified much of Asia.
Established the worlds first continuing education programme.
Responsible for the first school of flower arranging.
Gave birth to martial arts.
Created the first formal system of psychology and psychotherapy.
Continues to deeply influence contemporary physicists and doctors, economists and ecologists.
Has been behind the scenes player in the revolution in Americas eating habit.
Enjoys a key role in the world's shortest form of literature, haiku.....
......... and much, much more?
It easily uniquely scales the loftiest peaks of the mind and plumbs the most unfathomable depths of the heart.
It lightens the step, brings tranquility to the soul, and is imbued with the spirit of harmony and love.
Idiots Guide to Buddhism
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| Sep 10 @ 1:38 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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Shaolin Kung Fu was the first to fall under the heading of Martial Arts so I do not know where the book says it's Indian source is the first martial art.
Knew no barriers of race or class if this includes equality for women that was created by the Egyptians.
Gave birth to martial arts  The Shaolins were Taoist not Buddhist just because it is stated that Bodhiharma resided there when he spent 9 years before the wall does not make it Buddhist.
Who was responsible for writing this idiots guide? 
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| Sep 10 @ 1:51 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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*sigh.
Please go study Egyptology and take a note how women "were" treated.
Then look at martial arts "before" Taoism, Shaolin and Bodhidharma "from" the Silk Road along from India.
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| Sep 10 @ 2:06 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Shaolin Kung Fu was the first to fall under the heading of Martial Arts
Actually, no. The term "Martial Arts" is said to be coined from Roman times from the Greek God Mars.
But lets get back to Buddhism.....
500 years before the Expansion of Rome itself. And ~1,000 years before Shaolin and Bodhidharma.
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| Sep 10 @ 2:18 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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Women in Egypt were treated as equals in all respects except one and there was a good reason for that due to Egyptian society at that time. Women could not work outside the home because a families position in society was based on the position a man held.
There were no martial arts before Taoism the Tao Te Ching was a description of a much older living belief system dating back to 4800 BC and anyway Lao Tzu lived in 600 BC long before the advent of the Shaolin's creation of the first martial arts. Which by the way was created by a Taoist monk who was charged with finding some form of exercise since all the monks were sickly and weak. The art was derived by observing nature and the defense system attack, defend everything alive in nature used.
There were fighters to be sure prior to the invention of Kung Fu but they and there fighting style were never classified as a martial art as we know it.
[Edited on 9/10/2008 3:44 PM]
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| Sep 10 @ 2:43 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Not sure of the purpose of bombarding info on Bodhidharma, although the Chinese recognise him as the father of Martial Arts and establishing buddhism within Shaolin, this does not recognise the origins of martial arts or buddhist martial arts.
Despite the fact martial arts had been practiced near a thousand years in India before this time and was brought to China by Bodhidarma one can only argue the origins of Martial arts in China with all this info pasted.
Maritial arts in word definition originated from Rome as far as history can tell. The practice of what is known as a formal school of martial arts originated in India. Shaolin came on the scene much later.
I wonder how much of "Shaolin" history has been irradicated or re-written to support communism, that is without "Buddhism". Interestingly, several Shaolin monks of recent times have seeked asylum in the west and stated the Shaolin Temple/Monastery isnt the former "respected" Shaolin.
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| Sep 10 @ 3:51 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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Bodhidharma was a myth there is nothing in India nor China that verifies him. Except of course the Mahayana version of history saying he was 28th in line from the Buddha and the first in Zen.
There is no documentation about an India fighting style that is classified as a Martial Art.
Martial arts are systems of codified practices and traditions of training for combat. While they may be studied for various reasons, martial arts share a single objective: to defeat one or more people physically and to defend oneself or others from physical threat. In addition, some martial arts are linked to spiritual or religious beliefs/philosophies such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism or Shinto, Confucianism while others have their own spiritual or non-spiritual code of honour. Many arts are also practised competitively most commonly as combat sports, but may also be in the form of dance.
The word 'martial' derives from the name of Mars, the Roman god of war. The term 'Martial Arts' literally means arts of war. This term comes from 15th century Europeans who were referring to their own fighting arts that are today known as Historical European martial arts. A practitioner of martial arts is referred to as a martial artist.
In popular culture, the term "Martial Arts" often specifically refers to the combat systems that originated in Asian cultures. However, the term actually refers to any sort of codified combat systems, regardless of origin. Europe is home to many extensive systems of martial arts, both living traditions (e.g. Jogo do Pau and other stick and sword fencing and Savate, a French kicking style developed by sailors and street fighters) and older systems collectively referred to as Historical European martial arts that existed until modern times and are now being reconstructed by several organizations. In the Americas, Native Americans have a tradition of open-handed martial arts, which includes wrestling, and Hawaiians have historically practiced arts featuring small and large joint manipulation. A mix of origins occur in the athletic movements of Capoeira, a practice that was created in Brazil by slaves and was based on skills brought with them from Africa.
While each style has unique facets that make it different from other martial arts, a common characteristic is the systemization of fighting techniques. Methods of training vary and may include sparring or forms (kata), which are sets or routines of techniques that are performed alone, or sometimes with a partner, and which are especially common in the Asian and Asian-derived martial arts.[1] Other than this I find the whole point of this utterly senseless. Using a idiots guide is idiotic for historical accuracy.
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| Sep 10 @ 5:12 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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I dont take kindly being called "idiotic" from someone of your standing 
Your stance that anything other than Taoism doesnt exist is
Bodhidharma is extremely well documented to being the father of "Chinese Martial Arts". Indian martial arts is extremely well documented too and extends to a further 1,000 years prior to Shaolin.
There was life before Tao and Confucious!
Please carry on copypasting from wiki and other dubious web sources.
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| Sep 10 @ 5:17 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Martial arts of the Indian subcontinent are diverse in nature and have origins of different times from various different regions. Some of the older traditions include the organised martial systems practiced by the Kshatriya warrior caste of Hinduism. These systems include armed and unarmed combat, and aspects such as meditation and mental conditioning. Many ancient Hindu temples have statues of deities and warriors in various postures related to combat. A number of ancient Dravidian martial arts were developed in South India, including Kuttu Varisai (empty hand combat) and Varma Kalai (the art of vital points) in Tamil Nadu, and Kalarippayattu (way of the arena) and Adithada (attack and defend) in Kerala.[1]
The theories behind Yoga, Ayurveda and Tantra, such as Kundalini (coiled energy), Prana (life force), Nadi (meridians), Chakra (aura) and Marmam (pressure points), are also present in Indian martial arts.
Antiquity (pre-Gupta)
The Indian epics contain accounts of combat, describing warriors such as Bhima. The Mahabharata describes a prolonged battle between Arjuna and Karna using bows, swords, trees and rocks, and fists.[2] Another unarmed battle in the Mahabharata describes two fighters boxing with clenched fists and fighting with kicks, finger strikes, knee strikes and headbutts.[3] Other boxing fights are also described in Mahabharata and Ramayana.[4]
Stories describing Krishna report that he sometimes engaged in wrestling matches where he used knee strikes to the chest, punches to the head, hair pulling, and strangleholds.[5] Based on such accounts, Svinth (2002) traces press ups and squats used by Indian wrestlers to the pre-classical era.[5]
Although, many authorities contend that the 4th century B.C. invasion of borders of India by Alexander the Great laid the foundation of Indian martial arts by dispersing pankration techniques throughout the subcontinent, however this is debatable.[6][7] Notable figures, such as Tatsuo Suzuki, Hirokazu Kanazawa, and Masutasu Oyama have pointed out the influence of Pankration on Indian martial arts.[8]
Around the 3rd century BC, Patanjali wrote the Yoga Sutras, which taught how to meditate single-mindedly on points located inside one's body, which was used in later martial arts, while various mudra finger movements were taught in Yogacara Buddhism. These Yoga elements, as well as finger movements in the nata dances, were later incorporated into various martial arts.[5]
The word "kalari" is mentioned in Sangam literature from the 2nd century BC. The Akananuru and Purananuru describe the martial arts of ancient Tamilakkam, including forms of one-to-one combat, and the use of spears, swords, shields, bows and silambam. The word "kalari" appears in the Puram [9] and Akam [10] to describe to both a battlefield and combat arena.
The references to "Silappadikkaram" in Sangam literature dating back to the 2nd century refer to the sale of Silamabam staves, swords, pearls and armor to foreign traders. The silambam staff was one of the martial art weapons, which was in great demand with the visitors.[11][12]
References to martial arts are found in early Buddhist texts. The Lotus Sutra (ca. 1st century AD) refers to a boxing art while speaking to Manjusri.[13] The Lotus Sutra also categorized combat techniques as joint locks, fist strikes, grapples, and throws,[14][unreliable source?] and also referred to a martial art with dance-like movements called Nara.[15][unreliable source?] Another early Buddhist sutra Hongyo-kyo describes a "strength contest" between Gautama Buddha's half-brother Prince Nanda and his cousin Devadatta.[13] Other stories suggest that Siddhartha Gautama was a champion of martial arts and archery before becoming the Buddha.[5]
The Vishnu Purana text describes Dhanur Veda as one of the traditional eighteen branches of knowledge.[2]
[edit] Classical period (3rd to 9th centuries)
Like other branches of Sanskrit literature, treatises on martial arts become more systematic in the course of the 1st millennium AD.
The martial art of Vajra Mushti is also mentioned in sources of the early centuries CE.[13] Indian military accounts of the Gupta Empire (c. 240-480) identified over 130 different classes of weapons. The Kama Sutra written by Vatsyayana at the time suggested that women should regularly "practice with sword, single-stick, quarter-staff, and bow and arrow." Around this time, Tantric philosophers developed important metaphysical concepts such as kundalini energy, chakras, and mantras.[5]
The Sushruta Samhita (c. 4th century) identifies 107 vital points of the human body in his Sushruta Samhita.[16] Of these 107 points, 64 were classified as being lethal if properly struck with a fist or stick.[5] Sushruta's work formed the basis of the medical discipline Ayurveda, which was taught alongside various Indian martial arts that had an emphasis on vital points, such as Varma Kalai and Marma Adi.[5] With numerous other scattered references to vital points in Vedic and epic sources, it is certain that India's early martial practitioners knew and practiced attacking or defending vital points.[17]
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| Sep 10 @ 5:18 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Martial arts were not exclusive to the Kshatriya warrior caste, though they used the arts more extensively. The 8th century text Kuvalaymala by Udyotanasuri recorded martial arts being taught at salad and ghatika educational institutions, where Brahmin students from throughout the subcontinent (particularly from South India, Rajasthan and Bengal) "were learning and practicing archery, fighting with sword and shield, with daggers, sticks, lances, and with fists, and in duels (niuddham)."[2]
Around 630, King Narasimhavarman of the Pallava dynasty commissioned dozens of granite sculptures showing unarmed fighters disarming armed opponents. These may have shown an early form of Varma Adi, a Dravidian martial art that allowed kicking, kneeing, elbowing, and punching to the head and chest, but prohibited blows below the waist. This is similar to the Dhanur Veda martial art described in the Agni Purana.[5]
The earliest extant manual of Dhanur Veda is in the Agni Purana (c. 8th century),[17] which contains several chapters giving descriptions and instructions on the fighting arts of Dhanur Veda, with reference earlier sutras on Dhanur Veda dating back centuries earlier.[18] It described how to improve a warrior's individual prowess and kill enemies using various different methods in warfare, whether a warrior went to war in chariots, elephants, horses, or on foot. Foot methods were subdivided into armed combat and unarmed combat.[5] The former included the bow and arrow, the sword, spear, noose, armour, iron dart, club, battle axe, discus, and the trident.[2] The latter included wrestling, knee strikes, and punching and kicking methods.[5]
Wiki with historical sources....
May I suggest you spend a few years in India too and learn the origins of martial arts 
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| Sep 10 @ 6:48 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,205
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I thought this was interesting, on mindfulness as applied to weight loss! Looks like Buddhist/Taoist philosphy is becoming coopted...'developed by Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn'?
Self-Awareness and Mindfulness Meditation
One of the healthy habits we encourage at the Duke Diet & Fitness Center (DFC) is self-awareness or mindfulness — the act of paying attention to what you experience in the moment. Mindfulness can contribute to your overall sense of well-being in many ways, one of the most significant being that it can help to reduce stress.
As part of our self-awareness programming at the DFC, we teach our clients a technique called mindfulness meditation. Developed by Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn of the University of Massachusetts Medical Center's Stress Reduction Clinic, mindfulness meditation is a method of paying attention to the present moment, without letting your mind drift to the past or future or judging your every thought and feeling.
You can practice mindfulness meditation by carving some time out of your day, finding a quiet place where you can be alone, and then turning your attention to your breath or to some other sensation in your body. As thoughts, emotions, or other sensations arise and compete for your attention, you simply observe and acknowledge them without judging, analyzing, or trying to suppress them. Just give the thought or feeling a little bit of space, and eventually it will pass.
This very simple process can prove quite challenging. Most of us have never tried to train our minds to gain mastery over where our attention is from moment to moment. The solution is to practice.
This week, set aside some time to practice mindful meditation. Make a point to focus on what you are experiencing. Let the feelings flow. See what emerges. After a period of regular meditation practice, you may find that it's easier to be mindful in other situations in your daily life. Next week, we'll show you how to be mindful when you are eating.
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| Sep 11 @ 8:49 AM |
BUDDHISM - General
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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Sigh there are Martial Arts and Military Arts and if you want to lump the two together then the Arts of combat are as old as man himself. I thought you once were a martial artist and would know they difference, guess not.
Bodhidharma was a mythical figure in the world of Ch'an. There were Yogic, non Mahayana Buddhist living in Taoist temples 500 years before the time he supposedly traveled on a reed to China. One of those Taoist temples was Shaolin but it was but one of many. Anyway if he arrived in China when stated he would have been 150. Many attempts have been made to trace his roots back to India unsuccessfully from other than Mahayana sources.
BTW provide me a link or cite a book from non Mahayana sources that ties Bodhidharma back to the Buddha in his original incarnation.
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| Sep 11 @ 9:10 AM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Yash, I dont know what the heck you are yabbing on about. The thread is about Buddhism in General and not martial arts or you trying to make out Martial arts didnt exist before Tao. No one has stated or implied anything about Mahayana.
Yet, again your premise is wrong. Martial Arts existed before they ever existed in China and to now lump anything before Tao as "Military Arts" is a nonsense.
*****
Heaven, interesting post. All about controlling the mind.
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| Sep 11 @ 9:42 AM |
BUDDHISM - General
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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16  your the one who posted snippets from the idiots guide and opened up this Buddhist thread to the martial based on your own posting. You sure are getting crusty in your age.
As far as Ch'an is concerned and Bodhidharma I did not see any link or book from other than non Mahayana sources in your reply. Now you will probably tell me the Buddha was a Buddhist and a Zennist.
The other day you stated that the Buddha addressed Mahayana in his third incarnation and spinning of the wheel which sect did that come from and is there a link?
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| Sep 11 @ 11:36 AM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Yash, dont point the devil at me! Thats too Christian.
16 your the one who posted snippets from the idiots guide and opened up this Buddhist thread to the martial based on your own posting. You sure are getting crusty in your age.
 Im just amused by your reactions.
As far as Ch'an is concerned and Bodhidharma I did not see any link or book from other than non Mahayana sources in your reply. Now you will probably tell me the Buddha was a Buddhist and a Zennist.
Actually yes, The Buddha was buddhist in his language. Buddhism was formed by the Buddha. I often see you post otherwise but never commented upon it. The Buddha actually started Buddhism. He actually started the Institution of the Sangha. And, what is "Zen"? Nothing more than the buddha knew, afterall he is the Buddha as are all Buddhas. Do you see it?
The other day you stated that the Buddha addressed Mahayana in his third incarnation and spinning of the wheel which sect did that come from and is there a link?
No. I did not say that at all. What is the Third Turning of the Wheel? And for that matter the Second?
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| Sep 11 @ 12:15 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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 Read your own words in the Buddhism is here thread. Do you take medicine for forgetfulness or dementia? I can give you some exercises that would help if you are getting more forgetful due to your years.
[Edited on 9/11/2008 1:12 PM]
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| Sep 11 @ 1:15 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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I suggest you go read the truth and leave your Ego behind.
Okay, I will answer for you for the benefit of readers.
The Buddha started Buddhism. Why was this?
Before he was born he was known to be the "Awakened One" a Buddha. "Buddha and Buddhism" isnt some new age cult at the time then or now. It is a condition of the nature we live in. You cant take the Buddha away from buddha, that is we all have Buddha-nature and it isnt created in us or taken away from us.
Buddha-nature has always been known even before the Buddha. The Buddha we know as being Siddhartha Gotama became Buddha in this life time and in our age once but he had been before in previous incarnations as he stated would again in future incarnations.
He was asked to teach Buddhism. His truths of our condition and the condition of the world. Where he acheived Awakening, Enlightenment under the Boddhi Tree is the fourth tree in succession from the original and is the worlds oldest tree lineage recorded officially.
Also during the time of the Buddha the first shrine was erected and the Buddha allowed it this one time.
The buddha organized and taught people according to their needs. He formed the Sangha or Order of Buddhist Monks. Also, for Lay people. He set down rules, guidelines, establishing an order to practice the truths he discovered on his awakening so others may awaken to them too.
The orgins of Buddhism is of cause "Oral Tradition". However, where is the validity of truth in oral tradition? Every word of the Buddhist Oral tradition can be verified time and time again because what was spoken then is still true today. 2+2=4 then and as it does today. There is not discrepency what-so-ever.
But, was it the words of Buddha taught himself? As far as a piece of paper or a documnet is concerned no one can validate anything.
But, it can be validated another way. A buddha or a buddhist on his path becomes awakened to many aspects of our condition. Buddhists do become aware of past life conditions as if they happened yesterday. The Buddha spoke of remembering all his countless past lives. Many Buddhas and bodhisattvas state the same. Past masters who have recorded teachings and who have been incarnations since the time with the Buddha have agreed on the Buddhas teachings. A western mind may say absolute tosh and rubbish and not understand the deeper aspects of buddhism or its nature yet it is there.
E.g. the documentary showing the 25th/27th incarnation of one of the buddhas disciples. A living example in this day. Can he not remember what the Buddha taught him? Does anyone remember the day of yesterday?
Budhism isnt a One Time Buddha among us, who taught Buddhism and then died off and gone. Buddhism is about acheiving what the Buddha acheived and ourselves becoming the same buddha as the Buddha.... "Awakened". Is this possible?
If it wasnt then Buddhism would be another fake religion and belief system on blind faith. The fact is Buddhism works and works wonderfully well, even if it is an institution helping us along the way. There has been many "ordinary" people attaining Buddhahood, Awakened, valididated the truth of The Buddha. Then, during his time, since his time and in the present time.
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| Sep 11 @ 2:21 PM |
BUDDHISM - General
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
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I agree with you on some things and do not agree with you on others and that is simply because our approach to Buddhism from both Direct Experience and study differs is that not so of everyone.
Your opinion piece above leans heavily on one sects interpretation what you cited is not universal in all sects. Which sect are you using for your dissertation?
I am just as much a Buddhist as you are it is only when you express opinions beyond the core teachings of the Buddha verifiable or not I accept his teaching except for one issue that is all life is suffering. Because as I have said before that reflects the soul of a nation in this case India. Whereas China has a more open and optimistic approach to life and living.
So if I lean on the core of Buddhas teachings couple it with living philosophy of Taoism [they are very close] and use Original Zen as a tool without a Mahayana Zen slant it does not go against Buddhas core teachings.
Both you and I choose to accept Buddhas core teachings verifiable or not because we each have spent more years than we like to admit in doing our own research from our own angle until it rings true to us.
So IMHO when either of us put forth a opinion we need to cite our verifiable sources. You might pick up a copy or used copy of The Tao of Zen by Ray Grigg cheaply I did over a decade ago then went through my own vetting process just as you would. Why should you I think it would help your assessment of me and the why of what I have stated about Bodhidharma and the Mahayana the reached China that was later known as Ch'an. It will also reflect something called Quietism before it was called Tao Chia [philosophical Taoism].
If for no other reason it provides you another eye to view things through.
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| Sep 11 @ 3:25 PM |
BUDDHISM - General |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Actually my above is general buddhism and no particular sect.
I think it depends on the depth of buddhism discussed. The deeper you go the more opening to a sect you go if on a particular topic. Most every school of buddhism agrees and they only take seperate paths on finer points, but very important points.
However, they are all correct in the respect their point of view is a model of their experiences and all leads to the same goal.
One of the reasons why the Buddha was "The Buddha" is that he had a far greater understanding of all the paths we care to choose and hence teachings each turning of the Wheel to help all types of people on the path.
I am very aware of Tao, Confucianism and Zen or Cha'an. In the seventies Alan Watts and DT Suzuki was a great inspiration as was many others. There was much fads in those days too, what with Kung Fu, "The Way of...." one thing or another.
Personally I dont think the western mind is conducive to Tao, Zen or Cha'an. Westerners want the "instant" mix of add water, heat up and instant enlightenment. They want to see results now and not have to spend too long working out or thinking about awakening to some condition of mind. Daily progression with the mix of self-therapy and self analysis type Buddhism is what they want. So it seems to me.
Further more the western mind seems to want the Hollywood style enlightenment too.
All tools and props to start walking along the road and when the weight starts getting heavy they slowly drop it off to carry on.
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