| Sep 9 @ 7:25 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
CPUfan
Posts: 3,052
|
 What a peaceful, harmonious discussion there has been in the R+S threads here for the last 12 hours.
Precisely what I came in here for, to test and consider views, both my own and those of others. Doesn't matter what views you hold, you have the right to express them anyway, in the same way as anyone has the right to challenge them - in a way that is ethical and which conforms to site rules (which we all agreed to when we signed as members!)
MD is a pluralist site of many views and outlooks, and the discussion will never end. But let's just keep it as a dignified discussion, without personal conflict or provocation?
There has been a polarisation in here, but who is with me in feeling that it is not right for anyone to dictate to others what and how they should believe? That's where I would drop off the thread and sadly, others have already done so. I'm posing this as a hypotheoretical (lol...  ) question not as a provocation...
So theological or not, feel free to answer as you wish!  In the end, we all draw our own conclusions. 
|
|
  |
|
| Sep 9 @ 7:53 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
horizon000
Posts: 924
|
Agree 100% .
Bring on the discussions.....
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 8:04 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
|
The R & S thread is also a thread for Philosophical musing. Why? Because All religions were built upon the back of various philosophers philosophy of living.
It seems the word religion is reserved for those living belief system began by a philosopher [or wise man] than that person was elevated to a deity post the philosopher's life time.
Lao Tzu [old master] of China elevated to a Religion in 1AD within Tao Chiao religious Taoism.
Islam Muhammad elevated from philosopher to a prophet.
The Buddha elevated to a deity by institutionalized Buddhism where The Buddha's teaching are a living philosophy but by making him a deity many consider it a religion.
Christianity the man Jesus considered a wise man by Islam and other living belief systems was elevated to be the Son of God spiritually and to comprise a polytheistic musing called the holy Trinity with a Personal God.
Why is that all monotheistic forms of Religion put forth their own true God'(s) to the exclusion of any others? Simply to appeal to the widest group of masses.
Where as in most living belief systems sans a deity it is about living life to the fullest Now rather than in any after life. Or to put it another way finding ones own true nature via an Awakening and/or Enlightenment. Some hold that an Awakening is Enlightenment and others hold that an Awakening is but the first Gateway towards enlightenment which is a never ending process.
Hold on to your center as to oneself [within a person] the only right way is what works for you but that gives no one a right to say their way is the one true way or God.
When it comes to religions most people are gambling that their way is the only true way but then nothing can be proved!!!!
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 8:23 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
|
I agree CPU. We should be able to have interesting and informative discussions without reverting to personal attacks. Differences of opinion will always exist and it is always hard to voice disagreement with or opposition to the religious beliefs of others without causing their feelings to be hurt.
There are many people that are very sensitive when it comes to their religious beliefs and take rebuttals of their beliefs as personal attacks. Others that cannot answer many of the questions tossed at them feel cornered and begin to attack the questioner rather than the opinion being discussed. We should all try to concentrate on the points being debated and not on the people making the points.
What happened yesterday is inexcusable. Some people don’t know where to draw the line when it comes to the statements they make. If a person can’t take criticism, or the heat that is generated in religious debates, they should find other forums to participate in.
I also noticed that a number of posts concerning the Jerusalem Temple were deleted yesterday by the Mods. It would be nice if the Mods would give reasons for the deletion of posts when they do it. I didn’t see anything in them that would warrant deletion.
The golden rule should be used when posting. For posting it should be reworded to say …..
Don’t criticize the beliefs of others, if you cannot take criticism yourself.
Enough said.
Peace
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 8:37 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
|
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 8:46 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
CPUfan
Posts: 3,052
|
Yes Yasha in a way human history has been a long cycle of finding, reforming or rejecting religion in various forms and guises... No sooner had the first religions emerged than some enlightened individual began to question and challenge them. Resulting in the (scientific) Enlightenment of the late Middle Ages where science and philosophy first challenged religious certainty.
Sometimes the revolt was pure self interest or self-assertion... When ministers in the Catholic Christian monopoly of the Middle Ages such as Martin Luther became tired of Papal infallibility, they questioned the selling of soul certificates, the wealth of the Vatican and the monopoly of the Pope - and so Lutheranism was born.
Then we had the English King Henry VIII who didn't see why the Pope should ultimately determine whether or not he should have a divorce. He went ahead and pronounced himself head of his own church and divorced the first of his wives... I think the previous anulment was terminal ahem... A Heretic, without doubt...
Still, the first step was taken there towards England becoming a unified Anglican church. That was also transported across to America by his daughter Elizabeth 1... daughter of one of those divorcees presumably lol... Before that England was a Catholic Kingdom, but the Protestant Kingdom that replaced it was challenged in the American colonies - because they had developed the right to vote and didn't see why the King was appointed by God...(also a result of the Enlightenment and its reason).
So we ended up with the current Christian situation in its many guises and denominations. Many of which still claim religious infallibility and supremacy over the population. Christianity of course grew out of the Old Testament into the New.
The Middle Eastern (and Asian) religion of Islam was previously only known to Europeans as a religious enemy from the crusades, but we had increasing contact with Islam through colonisation, especially Britain and France. Buddhism came as a later revelation to us... but I agree that essentially these religions share a belief in one God, traceable back to the Middle East.
Rowan Atkinson did a brilliant sketch about arrival at the gates to hell. Playing a very affable devil, he quickly sorted the Catholics and Protestants to one side for fast-tracking to hell and said "the Jews were right..." Then he added, "if you're French line up over there, alongside the Germans..." lol...
I guess religion and atheism are both part of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." There is though a boundary or threshold which is sometimes crossed, that of personal sovereignty. Jehovas Witnesses are especially known for their aggressive methods of recruitment and of holding on to "their" flock... They also deny people the right to surgical operations on the grounds that the bible states "thou shalt not drink of another's blood..."
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 8:54 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
|
One of the most harmful concepts put forward be religions was the idea borrowed from the Greek Atomist that a personal God only existed external to us which the Christian church used to set itself apart from other religions of it's time.
Of course in modern times we find there are many gospels literally in the hundreds that did not find there way into the NT. In fact as far back as 400 AD they were still arguing about what should be allowed into it. Then the sent out a papal order that only selected gospels were to be observed. 
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 8:57 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
Loreli
Posts: 20,161
|
I am here mostly to learn other's beliefs.
I know who and what I am, and where I stand. The biggest problem was being judged.
I try to start open-ended threads (like this!) where we can all just discuss.
I don't mind when other's correct me-if I am truly wrong. And I enjoy the guidance several offer here.
It has been nice!
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 8:57 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
CPUfan
Posts: 3,052
|
 Yes Sail it can be difficult to challenge religious sensitivities but we have to retain that right. It is one of the moving forces of history!
There are certainly a lot more happy people around as a result of not being force-recruited to religious schools. Historically, there were convents for unmarried teenager mothers and religious reform schools for young male offenders, which employed appalling methods - before they were finally closed down by governments.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:00 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
CPUfan
Posts: 3,052
|
Yes Loreli I must say I've learnt a lot about myself, life and others from contact with so many different people in here, in MD generally. That I think is the most positive aspect. It would be a shame though if people felt repressed from expressing what they are and what they think and feel. There are so many different ways of looking at things.
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:00 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
|
By the way, I think it should be mentioned that Hammer has also been banned from posting for a day, the same as Bev was.
This brings up another thing that should be brought to everyone's attention.
When you post personal things that have happened to you or your family, these personal things now become the topic of discussion. If like Bev you post what you consider a miracle that you received, expect to have this claim rebutted as a delusion by those that do not have similar beliefs as you.
I don't agree with either of the bans placed on Bev and Hammer. Hammer was responding to things that both Bev and SOC placed in open forum for discussion. If they hadn't posted their personal information, Hammer would have had nothing to attack. In Bev's case, she didn't attack anyone in general or something that was placed in the forum for discussion. She attacked many sensitive personal issues that had no place in the discussions taking place. Her attacks on parents for their children's shortcomings was way out in left field and caused a few people to cancel their MD accounts. The only thing that Bev accomplished was to show her true colors and many people responed to her comments in a negative way. These negative posts were her payback for her action and did more to discredit her than any ban could do.
I for one feel the the members participating in the forums have the power to police them by rebutting posts that they feel are unwarranted. We are all adults here and we shouldn't need the Mods to step in like they did yesterday. If something is posted that bothers you ..... post your rebut. Don't remain silent or email the Mods to do what you have the power to do yourselves.
I hope the people that cancelled, will return and help turn things around in R&S by showing people by example how civilized debate can exist.
Peace
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:20 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,489
|
The true reality that we all exist in is that the forums and threads are a privilege, nor a right!
Having been on MD every since it was founded over differing time periods I appreciate it's long term formate. There was a time when this site [like others] was dominated by posers from Eastern Europe that were naught but scammer's forcing MD to eliminate people from that part of the world from their internal search engine.
Maybe some people need to reread the rules.
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:23 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
Thor1960303
Posts: 1,851
|
Don’t criticize the beliefs of others, if you cannot take criticism yourself.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:25 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
CPUfan
Posts: 3,052
|
Yes I share that sentiment too... come back soon you good folks.
I do understand why people reacted like that this week. I don't really have a rap as an agressive poster, but I began to feel violated by some of the comments on people's families and personal integrity, too. What offended me most was the suggestion that people would go to hell for not agreeing with the terms set down by one person. Eternal damnation is not a matter to be taken lightly, especially if it is to be decided by a minority vote of one. 
To be honest that was moving me closer to Hammer's position before the hammer fell lol...  I couldn't see why I should have to tolerate such harsh positions on posters' personal affairs... I could see why Hammer was reacting to issues like that, even though I didn't react the same way.
Yes of course any intimate personal details that are posted are - public domain!
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:41 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
horizon000
Posts: 924
|
On that note... I would like to take this oppurtunity to appologise to Bev for posting those nasty pics of her. I got a bit huffed when a new poster (with a handful of posts) made a comment and she went into the lukewarm Christian thing again. That is no excuse for my actions and will try to refrain from doing it again in the future. If I offended anyone else with my posts, I appologise for that also...
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:51 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
16knots
Posts: 3,627
|
It has been "most excellent!"
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 9:55 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
|
Horizon,
If anything by posting those images of Bev, you made your statement but also contributed some humor in a heated discussion that needed to be lightened up.
Peace
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 10:07 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
CPUfan
Posts: 3,052
|
I agree, sometimes when things get a bit serious the situation needs lightening up... maybe not those pictures precisely, but well the thought's there lol...
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 10:30 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion
|
|
Loreli
Posts: 20,161
|
Personally, I felt Bev brought up good topics. She just always ALWAYS was the one that was right.
I don't judge, but I will respond. Usually nicely.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 9 @ 10:54 AM |
Peaceful, harmonious discussion |
|
Aeromuse
Posts: 2,573
|
If anything by posting those images of Bev, you made your statement but also contributed some humor in a heated discussion that needed to be lightened up.
Agreed. I'll bet even Bev had a chuckle
Or not
|
| |
|
|