| Nov 3, 2008 @ 10:45 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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bevrice
Posts: 11,141
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3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.
The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?
Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.
4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.
This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all.
There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence -- arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."8 He claimed
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| Nov 3, 2008 @ 10:52 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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The qualities of an omnipotent god
If god is almighty there are several qualities he must have. They are as follows:
* He must know everything. Everything that is, everything that has been and everything that will be. To be able to know everything that will be he must know every position and every momentum of every particle in cosmos (Laplace's "World Spirit").
* He must be worth our worship. A being that is not worth worshipping is no god.
* He must be able to do anything. If there are things that god can't do, he certainly is not omnipotent.
* He must be above time. Something that even St. Augustine deduced. But not only that, god must stand above all possible dimensions.
* He cannot be 'good' or 'evil' or, indeed, have any subjective characteristica. If god is all good, he cannot do evil things and cannot be almighty. Most people would object and say that good can do evil but chooses not to do it. Well, if god is all good he can't choose to do evil things, can he?
The theodicé problem
We also have the theodice problem, stated by David Hume:
If the evil in the world is intended by god he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since god is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only god can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that god, and not Satan created the universe?
For a good look at the Theodicé problem try The problem of natural evil
Reasons not to believe in god
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
I have refuted this argument myself. See Refuted proofs for an explanation
The ontological evidence against gods
Neccesary a god is a being that is worth worshipping, so if there is no being worth worshipping there cannot be a god.
Not any of the existing religions can provide such a god. How do we know if there are no undiscovered beings worthy our submission? Well if there is a being that has either failed or not tried to communicate with us that being is not worth worshipping either, so the ontological evidence against god holds, even without complete knowledge of the world.
There is a test, based on the ontological evidence against god, that you can do to try the existence of god. Pray, and ask god to provide you with a clear proof for his existence within a week. After that week, if you have got a proof that god exists, send me the evidence. If not, there are only three reasons I can think of that are plausible: (1) God does not exist, (2) God does not want to or (3) God can't give you this evidence. Because of the ontological evidence, alternative (2) and (3) are not worth your worship and thus they equal alternative (1). So if you get no response there is no god.
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| Nov 3, 2008 @ 11:00 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_87_31081_1/Now_am_out_of_here_for_good.html
Now, I am out of here, guys, for good. Good luck, God bless. I only came back because someone needed help. I am here for any of you who need me, you can reach me in email. I won't even be reading these forums. Just remember, if you ever need me, I am always there for you.
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| Nov 4, 2008 @ 10:35 AM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,241
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Duh I wonder why she is still here, oh yes she enjoys tough love.
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| Nov 6, 2008 @ 2:00 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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oh LORD  (pardon the pun) she can't NOT preach huh?
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| Nov 6, 2008 @ 3:05 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,681
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she can't NOT preach huh?
When I speak, the words burst out.
“Violence and destruction!” I shout.
So these messages from the Lord
have made me a household joke.
But if I say I’ll never mention the Lord
or speak in his name,
his word burns in my heart like a fire.
It’s like a fire in my bones!
I am worn out trying to hold it in!
I can’t do it!
Yes actually that would be true of many of Gods people. But you scoffers wouldn't know that, respect it, acknowledge it, or accept that it is legitimate or real for anyone. No you can't do that because you are too busy trying to find ways to belittle God, His word, and His people. You search high and low for ways to make a mockery of the things of God so you certainly can't understand any of His ways on even the minutest scale. Yes the love and kindness you preach shows through with every word you utter. And those words will ultimately haunt you in the end.
S
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| Nov 6, 2008 @ 3:11 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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Just remember, if you ever need me, I am always there for you.
My dad had a comeback for this:
"If you need me, I'll call you."
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| Nov 6, 2008 @ 4:57 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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But you scoffers wouldn't know that, respect it, acknowledge it, or accept that it is legitimate or real for anyone. No you can't do that because you are too busy trying to find ways to belittle God, His word, and His people Well no one deserves respect when they lack self respect. As for belittling God, no one can do that better than those who preach delusion and make utter fools of themselves. Their lack of insight, lack of knowledge and wisdom and a most abject lack of spiritually is evident and a mockery. Those who need to babble their dogma are no better than an exhibitionist who flashes themselves to unsuspecting passerbys. First is shock, then annoyance but many times laughter.
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| Nov 6, 2008 @ 10:06 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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Skydognc
Posts: 4,017
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I for one............
am very happy to see ole Wacky back !
Jus think how boring Christianity would be if nobody was there to totally pervert it !
.......kinda like sex! .........
 Wacky !
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| Nov 10, 2008 @ 7:30 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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trish123
Posts: 154
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I didnt get past the first sentence of the opening post befoe I said............ subjective.......................
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| Nov 10, 2008 @ 10:15 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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Yes actually that would be true of many of Gods people. But you scoffers wouldn't know that, respect it, acknowledge it, or accept that it is legitimate or real for anyone. No you can't do that because you are too busy trying to find ways to belittle God, His word, and His people. You search high and low for ways to make a mockery of the things of God so you certainly can't understand any of His ways on even the minutest scale. Yes the love and kindness you preach shows through with every word you utter. And those words will ultimately haunt you in the end.
Sorry to call you on your BS Seal but since you quoted me  show me where I have EVER belittled God... I have stated that the twisting of a good mans words and beliefs by some *christians* is blasphemy ... and ANYONE who condemns others to hell should be struck down by the God they profess to believe in.. And Im sorry but I doubt that Bevs rantings and tirades and condemnations are GODS WORDS  and your constant belittling of those who do NOT believe as you do Seal is not Christ like either... he taught to SHARE the word not cram it down others throats.. you cannot MAKE anyone BELIEVE no matter how loud you shout ... they will believe what they will and will be driven away by such actions...and that is what most of those who call BEV on her BS are talking about.. her CONDEMNATIONS and preaching .. she does not SHARE she shoves it down others throats with vile intent... that is NOT how Christ converted believers so why on earth would anyone try that tactic and still call themselves Christians??? The love and kindness I speak of is how Christ reached others and converted them not the fire and brimstone preaching of damnation that some of you are so fond of... hypocrites to speak of Christ and say you follow his teachings yet at every turn twist his intent and try to BE GOD and condemn others and you wonder why some people laugh at your ignorance
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:08 AM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
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Becky,
You are one special woman. 
Peace
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:37 AM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,241
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Becky I think you misunderstand Sail's intent. IMHO Many on here are in concert with what you expressed. Others need to read all the words that are said to be the sayings and deeds of Jesus from all the Gospels then read those words as if from a Prophet not solely from a Biblical perspective.
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 7:29 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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Becky I think you misunderstand Sail's intent. IMHO Many on here are in concert with what you expressed. Others need to read all the words that are said to be the sayings and deeds of Jesus from all the Gospels then read those words as if from a Prophet not solely from a Biblical perspective.
Yash????  I dont think I was misunderstanding SAILS intent .. I quoted SEAL and his tirade aimed at me since he had quoted me k?? From what I have seen in my life I see too many people following church LEADERS not the teaching of Christ and still call themselves Christians.. to me they are not.. per se.. they are followers of the church leaders whose INTERPRETATION of the teachings of Christ are twisted to give them CONTROL over the masses..  not CHristlike at all to me but that is JMHO and well its another reason I have *fallen from the Catholic church* as they put it... in my mind I have distanced myself from a bunch of control freaks and actually follow the teachings of Christ along with other great Teachers HARM NONE
BTW thanks Sail
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 8:59 AM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,241
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I have been calling this version of Church Religion as The Religion of Institutions for a long time now.
Thomas Paine called them False Religions for a very good reason IMHO although a better term word be The Religions of Man!
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:16 AM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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waterfire
Posts: 2,946
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uh why not just take a breath then notice your awareness of it, to me that is the number one reason to feel that yes there is something more, something bigger.
Hmm, maybe anything added to that "I feel" is simply BS , stuff we make up because we do not really know and keep using the same tool that brought us the Sun God. 
[Edited on 11/16/2008 10:27 AM]
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 11:20 AM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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Sorry to call you on your BS Seal but since you quoted me show me where I have EVER belittled God... I have stated that the twisting of a good mans words and beliefs by some *christians* is blasphemy ... and ANYONE who condemns others to hell should be struck down by the God they profess to believe in.. And Im sorry but I doubt that Bevs rantings and tirades and condemnations are GODS WORDS and your constant belittling of those who do NOT believe as you do Seal is not Christ like either... he taught to SHARE the word not cram it down others throats.. you cannot MAKE anyone BELIEVE no matter how loud you shout ... they will believe what they will and will be driven away by such actions...and that is what most of those who call BEV on her BS are talking about.. her CONDEMNATIONS and preaching .. she does not SHARE she shoves it down others throats with vile intent... that is NOT how Christ converted believers so why on earth would anyone try that tactic and still call themselves Christians??? The love and kindness I speak of is how Christ reached others and converted them not the fire and brimstone preaching of damnation that some of you are so fond of... hypocrites to speak of Christ and say you follow his teachings yet at every turn twist his intent and try to BE GOD and condemn others and you wonder why some people laugh at your ignorance
AWESOME Becky, and yeah though you walk in the valley in the shadow of the seal of eternal damnation, you are so sexy when you're on the path of righteousness...   
That's one lucky guy you've got right there by your side  
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| Nov 19, 2008 @ 6:00 PM |
Six Reasons to believe that God exists. Part 2 |
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waterfire
Posts: 2,946
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yeah though you walk in the valley in the shadow of the seal of eternal
I remember watching this movie where this creature says "I walk through the valley of the shadow of death and I will fear no evil for I am the baddest fvcker in the valley"
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