| Nov 14, 2008 @ 8:01 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
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By MEG KINNARD, Associated Press Writer Meg Kinnard, Associated Press Writer – Thu Nov 13, 6:33 pm ET
COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings." What a farce! 
Peace
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| Nov 14, 2008 @ 9:48 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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eastham
Posts: 7,907
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I don't know what this man was thinking and in all likelihood, he'll receive some sort of reprimand from his bishop.
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| Nov 14, 2008 @ 10:03 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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vinnytmd
Posts: 6,004
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He did not make a mistake. He was on TV last night.
The Catholic Church has also issued warnings to Obama about removing standing executive orders regarding abortion in foreign countries and stem cell research.
I am not surprised by this Priests stand.
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| Nov 14, 2008 @ 10:28 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,236
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There was a Cardinal on Fox TV yesterday who was asked about what this priest said. The Cardinal said well I would not have gone as far as this priest but certainly when voting all factors considered if a candidate is Pro life is certainly one thing you must consider when voting.
I considered it a good political answer since the priest is right on the hairy edge of breaking the separation of church and state. I do not know if it is me or just the news coverage but I do not remember as many activist within churches that were exposed as much as this last election cycle.
One thing is certain though activist are becoming more outspoken and radical now that Obama has been elected due to his permissive liberal attitude. This in the Prop 8 demonstrations where churches are being protested against, even the LDS church who did not give any money.
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 12:53 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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vinnytmd
Posts: 6,004
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It seems the Diocese supports Rev Newmans letter.
These Catholics mean business 
http://www.thestate.com/local/story/589290.html
A Greenville priest who told parishioners those who cast ballots for President-elect Barack Obama risk placing themselves “outside of the full communion of Christ’s church” is simply enunciating church teaching and has the full support of the Diocese of Charleston, a spokesman said Thursday.
The provocative letter from the Rev. Jay Scott Newman to members of St. Mary’s Catholic Church has sparked some controversy and yet another conversation about faith and public policy.
“Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil,” Newman said in the letter posted on the Greenville church’s Web site, www.stmarysgvl.org, “and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ’s Church and under the judgment of divine law.”
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 2:23 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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KatiefromStafford
Posts: 2,750
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If my church told me that I was risking my immortal soul because of a political vote, I would be shopping for a new church. What I believe is between God and me, and no one should be able to judge me here. That is His job. So much for the separation of church and state. I guess that is one sided, the state can't dictate to the church, but the church gets to dictate to the state...  
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 3:58 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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vinnytmd
Posts: 6,004
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the state can't dictate to the church, but the church gets to dictate to the state.
katie - the Catholics are dictating to their members. They have that right.
I think this is crazy as Jews do not have any belief requirement like this. There is no one that would tell us we are excommunicated.
It does not exist
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 4:11 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,681
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Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law.
He is correct and if someone can't follow what Jesus taught then what the heck are they doing saying they are a Christian in the first place? Need another church that agrees with you? Then you, whom ever you may be, are in doubt of truly following Christ.
S
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 5:17 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,490
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A lot of people who can't follow what Jesus taught still call themselves Christians. Both left-wing AND right-wing.
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 8:42 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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The_Unholy
Posts: 3
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So a faith that allows it priests to molest children and then covers for them says Obama is evil? WOW
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| Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:43 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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Jankia
Posts: 11,897
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vinny- A Greenville priest who told parishioners those who cast ballots for President-elect Barack Obama risk placing themselves “outside of the full communion of Christ’s church” is simply enunciating church teaching and has the full support of the Diocese of Charleston, a spokesman said Thursday. I found this...here
The Catholic Diocese of Charleston expressed regret Friday over recent comments from a Greenville priest, saying the church's moral teachings had been "pulled into the partisan political arena."
I'll have to question my local Methodist minister on what his opinions are about this because he didnt go so far as to say... preach about his admiration for Obama but did mention in two services his undeniable favortism for him.
What he said mostly had to do with the aspect of a citizen in the minority winning this election.
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 12:41 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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he Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
I love this part... go ahead vote against the teachings of the church then go to confession and be forgiven and then you can receive communion... even tho your vote still counts
kinda like the gang members shooting someone and confessing... so they are saved... only to go out the next day and shoot someone else  only to go back to confession to get RE FORGIVEN 
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 9:10 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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eastham
Posts: 7,907
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Earlier in the campaign, a priest refused to give communion to a conservative pundit and law professor, Doug Kmiec, who endorsed Obama. Kmiec, who was once dean of the law school at Catholic University, and is now a professor at Pepperdine's law school was refused communion at the mass proceeding a luncheon for Catholic businessmen. Kmiec was the luncheon speaker.
Following the incident, Kmiec received a letter of apology from the event's organizers and the priest was "spoken to."
As was said in USCatholic:
...no one can judge the conscience of another, and a minister of Communion, lay or ordained, has to err on the side of charity when it comes to distributing Communion and presume the good intentions and clean conscience of the communicant.
Where the priest erred is that an American and a Catholic, whether it be Doug Kmiec or anyone else, can support Obama in spite of his pro-choice stand. The priest's assumption and in violation of the spirit of giving an individual the sacrament is that the individual overtly supported Obama, because his stand on abortion, which may or may not be the case.
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 9:37 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,236
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I think All Churches should have their not for profit status revoked. If they wish to do good than they like us can initiate a not for profit legally. But to give a blanket tax exemption lays it wide open to abuse.
Churches in this country are like cash cows and it is not just churches but the other names used by religions for where they assemble.
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:19 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
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Vinny,
I think this is crazy as Jews do not have any belief requirement like this. There is no one that would tell us we are excommunicated. What a bunch of crock! 
So jews don't call it excommunication, they only rip their garments and consider the rule breaker as being dead to his family and religious brothers and sisters.
Peace
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:05 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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eastham
Posts: 7,907
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One thing to clear up...The word excommunication is being bandied about here and incorrectly. Excommunication means different things to different religious sects, but as I'm a Catholic and this thread refers to a Catholic priest, I will stick to my definition.
There is a big difference between being denied the sacraments, referred to as penitential exclusion, and being fully excommunicated. A divorced person who remarries outside the church is considered to be committing adultery and is denied the sacraments. He/she is not excommunicated.
As stated, excommunication is not the end of the road. There are very few instances where reconciliation is not possible and excommunication cannot be undone. For example, there is a statue of a priest here at Woodlawn. The priest was excommunicated following a public fight with a bishop after which the priest was asked to come to Rome and clear the whole thing up. The priest didn't come, because he was ill, which the bishop neglected to tell Rome. When the full facts of the matter were brought forward, Father McGlynn was re-instated and Rome made the bishop publicly apologize to McGlynn.
A priest cannot excommunicate an individual, excommunication comes from a bishop, cardinal or the pope.
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:31 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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Excommunication (Latin ex, out of, and communio or communicatio, communion -- exclusion from the communion), the principal and severest censure, is a medicinal, spiritual penalty that deprives the guilty Christian of all participation in the common blessings of ecclesiastical society. Being a penalty, it supposes guilt; and being the most serious penalty that the Church can inflict, it naturally supposes a very grave offence. It is also a medicinal rather than a vindictive penalty, being intended, not so much to punish the culprit, as to correct him and bring him back to the path of righteousness. It necessarily, therefore, contemplates the future, either to prevent the recurrence of certain culpable acts that have grievous external consequences, or, more especially, to induce the delinquent to satisfy the obligations incurred by his offence. Its object and its effect are loss of communion, i.e. of the spiritual benefits shared by all the members of Christian society; hence, it can affect only those who by baptism have been admitted to that society. Undoubtedly there can and do exist other penal measures which entail the loss of certain fixed rights; among them are other censures, e.g. suspension for clerics, interdict for clerics and laymen, irregularity ex delicto, etc. Excommunication, however, is clearly distinguished from these penalties in that it is the privation of all rights resulting from the social status of the Christian as such. The excommunicated person, it is true, does not cease to be a Christian, since his baptism can never be effaced; he can, however, be considered as an exile from Christian society and as non-existent, for a time at least, in the sight of ecclesiastical authority. But such exile can have an end (and the Church desires it), as soon as the offender has given suitable satisfaction. Meanwhile, his status before the Church is that of a stranger. He may not participate in public worship nor receive the Body of Christ or any of the sacraments. Moreover, if he be a cleric, he is forbidden to administer a sacred rite or to exercise an act of spiritual authority.
From the New Advent a Catholic dictionary New Advent
and in the highlighted sentences above it sure seems to me that the church boots yer butt to the curb... If you are non existent in their eyes you are no longer a part of their church.. right?? Reminds me of the movie For Richer or Poorer where the Amish community literally turned their backs on the people who had been their friends and practically Family to them  for a person to be able to do that to toss aside another person because they broke a rule or in some cases broke it because it was the only way to insure the safety of their children  does not show to me ANY form of CHRISTIANITY
[Edited on 11/17/2008 11:39 AM]
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:39 AM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
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It seems to me that all religions have some sort of banishment. And all consider that banishment as being dead in the eyes of the church.
Peace
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 12:01 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
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SaintBacon
Posts: 2,130
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There is many reasons why many of us are no longer practicing Catholics...this is just another example.
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| Nov 17, 2008 @ 12:03 PM |
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters |
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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Yeah and its sad Sail.. I mean take the person who devotes their entire life to a church only to be ostracized because of a misstep.. now to me in a christian church for them to do that to someone is not following the teachings of Christ but making an exclusive club rife with bigotry and prejudice..heck even Christ hung out with hookers and thieves what makes ANYONE of us any better?? He led by example by accepting all who came ... whether they believed or not ...they still came to listen.. THAT is the way to gather followers not banishing some for a misstep and expecting others NOT to be afraid to listen... yet some chose to ignore that and create their own rules 
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