| Apr 30 @ 11:16 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
iam01
Posts: 6,280
|
The Barna survey asked questions about God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, Satan, and demons.
Four out of ten Christians (40%) strongly agreed that Satan “is not a living being but is a symbol of evil.”
Although a core teaching of the Christian faith is the divinity and perfection of Jesus Christ, tens of millions of Christians do not accept that teaching. 
Much like their perceptions of Satan, most Christians do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a living force, either.  Hey, ain't there an unforgivable sin in there somewhere?  
A majority of Christians believe that a person can be under the influence of spiritual forces, such as demons or evil spirits.  We are talking about a bunch of superstitious morons still living in the dark ages.
http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/260-most-american-christians-do-not-believe-that-satan-or-the-holy-spirit-exis
Wow!!! What a messed up group of people....
  
|
|
  |
|
| May 1 @ 1:04 AM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
joe_kerr
Posts: 781
|
So .0009355% of the Christian population represents the Christian population as a whole? Interesting. 
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 1:43 AM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,227
|
Iam, as far as I'm concerned you have now proven that everything that Tim LaHaye and the Catholic Association is saying is true. Christians are being led from a strong Christian faith in the Bible, the Trinity, the salvation experience, the Holy Spirit, and countless other solid doctrines down the thorny, darkened path of confusion.
If your little survey here is in any way accurate, then you've proven that those who think they are still Christian may very well not be. You've shown us that those who have moved away from strong, solid belief in the Bible and what it clearly says, are being tricked and misled down a path that isn't leading them anywhere they will be happy to be. It's sheer futility.
They are the misled, the tricked, and the confused, pied pipered away by something less than spiritual. The god of this world must think he has everything all tied up, so many are falling for his lies and tricks. It's sad and a little fightening on some level that he can deceive so many so very easily.
[Edited on 5/1/2009 3:20 AM]
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 6:52 AM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
|
SL,
You've shown us that those who have moved away from strong, solid belief in the Bible and what it clearly says, are being tricked and misled down a path that isn't leading them anywhere they will be happy to be. It couldn't be that people are becoming more educated and harder to indoctrinate ..... Could it?
Educated people are more apt to recognize religious dogma for the myth that it is.
I suppose you have documented evidence that what you are selling is true?
Peace
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 7:34 AM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
iam01
Posts: 6,280
|
Iam, as far as I'm concerned you have now proven that everything that Tim LaHaye and the Catholic Association is saying is true. I'm not proving anything.. You are...
We are talking about a bunch of superstitious morons still living in the dark ages.
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 11:56 AM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
|
We are talking about a bunch of superstitious morons still living in the dark ages.
Who suffer a persecution complex. Everything that shows:
It couldn't be that people are becoming more educated and harder to indoctrinate ..... Could it?
Educated people are more apt to recognize religious dogma for the myth that it is.
Is seen by them as part of an end times conspiracy.
You've shown us that those who have moved away from strong, solid belief in the Bible and what it clearly says, are being tricked and misled down a path that isn't leading them anywhere they will be happy to be. It's sheer futility.
They are the misled, the tricked, and the confused, pied pipered away by something less than spiritual. The god of this world must think he has everything all tied up, so many are falling for his lies and tricks. It's sad and a little fightening on some level that he can deceive so many so very easily.
Not only are we supposed to be "decieved" by some invisible being, but we're all supposed to be "miserable" as well.
Guess someone forgot to tell me that I'm supposed to be miserable. All in all, I'm pretty content with life.
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 4:46 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,227
|
People who are being tricked by Satan, who were once saved, will be allowed to stray off only so far. God will attempt to bring them back into His will but at some point, if they continue to reject God's word and His will, He could give them over to a reprobate mind.
When one is given over to a reprobate mind, they aren't normally aware of it. When Christian people who are initially saved reject God's word or fall off the narrow path onto the broad highway to hell, they can be given over to a reprobate mind or still be saved but out of God's will. The state of one with a reprobate mind is considered more deeply below:
In Romans 1:28, we read of those who “God gave …over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.” Here, the meaning is not only of rejection but abandonment. These people had gone so far in sin, “they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,” and so God gave them what they wanted. They did not want God, righteousness, holiness, cleanness, or purity, so God “gave them over.” These people are reprobate because of their hatred toward God.
Now, the question is, were these people really saved? It would do well to compare the traits of saved people with those of the reprobate. Saved people are new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17) who have repented of their sinful life (1 Thessalonians 1:9) and who bring forth the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22, 23). Their attitudes toward God, Christ, the Bible, and sin have changed, and this is manifested in their daily lives. They desire to do good works (Ephesians 2:10), love the brethren (1 John 3:14) and to keep themselves unspotted from the world (James 1:27). Oh sure, saved people fall short, but they will confess their sins (1 John 1:9) to maintain fellowship with God.
The reprobate on the other hand wants no real knowledge of God (Romans 1:28). Instead of living holy and bringing forth good works, their lifestyle is manifestly different from the saint. Paul says they are “… filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful” (Romans 1:29-31). Could it be said that a saved person, washed in the blood of Christ, was a hater of God? Do the saints invent evil things?
Reprobates are without understanding, yet John tells the saints concerning false prophets, “ye need not that any man teach you” (1 John 2:27). Paul goes on to say that these people know full well the judgment of God upon those who do these things, yet they continue to do them. Further, they not only blatantly sin against God, but “they have pleasure in them that do them” (Romans 1:32). No, there is a great gulf fixed between the reprobate and the child of God.
But to get to the heart of your question, what about those who profess salvation yet turn away?” After all, the people we just described hate God and have no qualms about openly showing their hatred for him. The more I read the Bible, the more I see the distinction between true believers and those who only profess to be. Let’s consider a few scriptures:
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Paul says these people, who professed they knew God, were reprobate. How can this be? The answer is found in the context of the preceding verse:
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:15
The “they” of verse 16 are previously described in this verse as “unbelieving.” Yes, they professed to know God, but they were reprobate. Why were they reprobated? Because they did not believe. These people were never saved. The same can be said for those described in 1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19
Those who left the faith were “not of us.” They were never saved. Now this teaching lines up with the words of our Lord himself. Consider this text:
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Notice the implication. Those who continue in the word of Christ (i.e., those who are truly converted to God through repentance and faith) are Christ’s disciples indeed; therefore, those who do not continue in his word are not his disciples. This means that a great number of people who have made an intellectual or emotional “decision” and finally fall away were never truly born again.
[Edited on 5/1/2009 4:51 PM]
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 4:48 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,227
|
Since Christians continue in Christ’s word, they could never be turned over to a reprobate mind. A believer may get to the point where his faith is weak or fall into sin and, consequently, go so far as to forget “that he was purged from his old sins” (2 Peter 1:9), but he could never be rejected or abandoned by God. The scripture says that “if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.” (2 Timothy 2:13). In John 6:37, we read these comforting words, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” The Lord Jesus has promised that he will not cast out – not reject – any one who comes to him. This blessed assurance from the lips of the Saviour himself leaves out any possibility of reprobation. And Christ says to those who are saved “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Hebrews 13:5). It should be a great blessing to know that the believer will never be rejected or abandoned by God. The Lord “knoweth them that trust in him,” and you can be assured they will never be reprobated. Thank God for His wonderful salvation in Christ.
http://www.learnthebible.org/a-reprobate-mind.html
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 5:39 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,227
|
Guess someone forgot to tell me that I'm supposed to be miserable. All in all, I'm pretty content with life.
Well..if you are given over to a reprobate mind, only you will know it, because we do not know what you do privately in your personal life. Are you an adulterer? Did you cheat on your wife in the past? Will you cheat on her in the future?
Do you live according to the standards of this world and enjoy doing so? Is your morality meter set on the world's standard of morality (which is essentially no morality at all) or are your personal ethics and morality patterned after the world or God's?
Answering these extremely personal questions and telling us about your own private sins might reveal what has occurred. (Or you can skip my questions entirely as I know they are invasive and probably inappropriate, so there is no need to answer. The main thing is that you answer honestly for yourself, to yourself. Recognize if your ethics and standard of morality does not intersect with God's. At the least, admit it to yourself.)
One who has this reprobate mind would be quite happy living as the world does, whether it pleases God or not.
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 6:34 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
|
SL,
Your C&P is another example of mumble jumble that christians will read and say "amen" to because they do not truly weigh what has been said.
Take this for instance:Notice the implication. Those who continue in the word of Christ (i.e., those who are truly converted to God through repentance and faith) are Christ’s disciples indeed; therefore, those who do not continue in his word are not his disciples. This means that a great number of people who have made an intellectual or emotional “decision” and finally fall away were never truly born again. So you are saying that there are many people that think that they have been converted and born again but since they failed to continue in christ's word they really fell away and were never truly born again.
Jesus taught "go and sin no more".
Then in the next paragraph:Since Christians continue in Christ’s word, they could never be turned over to a reprobate mind. A believer may get to the point where his faith is weak or fall into sin and, consequently, go so far as to forget “that he was purged from his old sins” (2 Peter 1:9), but he could never be rejected or abandoned by God. Now you say that a person can be truly converted and born again, but slip into sin even to the point where they may forget Jesus' sacrifice for the old sins this sacrifice purged, and still not be rejected or abandoned by god.
Why is this person still considered born again? They also failed to continue in christ's word. So why are they still considered "saved"? These people sinned and even forgot that Jesus took their old sins upon him and purged them.
Why would god reject or abandon a person that truly didn't understand what "continuing in christ's word" or "being born again" meant, yet not reject or abandon a person that you claim understood these terms but then sinned and even erased what Jesus did for them from their minds?
If anything the born again person that sinned and forgot what Jesus did for him/her seems to have committed a bigger so called sin. They purposely slapped Jesus and god in the face!
Your beliefs and dogma do not make sense and are just mumble jumble to raise "amens" from your delusional christian associates that believe that anything they do cannot damage their salvation and all none christians will burn in hell no matter how good or righteous they may be.
You are all wackos!
Peace
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 6:51 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
Peabianjay
Posts: 1,790
|
Sail: Your beliefs and dogma do not make sense... Makes sense to me:
Two sorts of people....those that are and those that simply claim to be.
The former is "heart & soul", the latter is simply "mind".
The former will never be abandoned. The latter was never saved to begin with.
No contradiction, Sail....and not that difficult to understand. 
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 7:01 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
iam01
Posts: 6,280
|
People who are being tricked by Satan, Was that just to be rhetorical, a joke or delusional?
Two sorts of people....those that are and those that simply claim to be. Both sorts are worth avoiding. At least the liar must be aware of the truth they are trying to hide. One is deceptive, the other is just out of their mind i.e. delusional. The liar can eventually believe their lie in which case, its not a lie to them anymore.
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 7:09 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
Peabianjay
Posts: 1,790
|
Iam01: Both sorts are worth avoiding... Which illuminates the fundamental flaw in your understanding, and explains your bigotry.
So long as you blame all Christians for the faults/errors/delusions of a few, you'll continue to have faith in your own delusions. Much like blaming all blacks for the crimes of some, all americans for the crimes of a few, etc.
It's irrational.....but, you knew that, didn't ya?
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 7:11 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
iam01
Posts: 6,280
|
Peabrain, all fairytales believed as reality are delusions which explains your stupidity and illogic.
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 7:17 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
Peabianjay
Posts: 1,790
|
Peabrain, all fairytales believed as reality are delusions which explains your stupidity and illogic. Certainly. But, we're not discussing fairytales....so, you'll have to find a different explanation for my stupidity and illogic. (You might try analyzing it objectively....you might be surprised!)
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 7:39 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
|
in conversation with most american christians i will describe to them who my satan is and who my holy spirit is, is it possible that most of them will agree with me? what if i offered them a different name to represent the evil and good that i beleive in? what if i said there will be no other names except Good and evil! see how easy this game is! its the short fluffy blond thing! LOL just because jo mama and daddy told ya so it don't mean its the truth! we be jammin
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 8:24 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,227
|
Sail, there are people that I know of personally who are Christian. They are Christian because they were raised Christian and deep in their hearts they committed themselves to God and meant it, but they have strayed from God's will and His directions to them within the Bible. They have essentially gotten off of the narrow path and are traveling the broad highway to hell. They sin again and again, and they know the sins they are engaging in are wrong, but still they sin. They feel guilt and even anguish in their sin. Perhaps they regret it and call out to God to help them stop but still they sin. They can't stop. They are addicted to whatever the sin is.
What will God do with such a person? Will He forgive and allow them to know Him and somehow put them back onto the narrow path? It is quite possible He will. In my opinion though, don't think that they won't see and pay the consequences for their sin. They don't reject God, it's that they are addicted to something sinful and cannot stop themselves and they are aware they can't stop.
Those who love God in their hearts, who want to do right but who are having trouble have mercy, but only God can know one's heart and the sincerity within it to turn from sin.
Those who blatantly hate God, who oppose God, who deny God, who were supposedly at one time saved will not have the same mercy as the sinner I've just described above. These people have abandoned their love for the Lord and have turned from Him completely. They love their sin, they love the world, and they have little left of the conscience He at one time offered them. If they do not turn from their sin and repent and allow the Holy Spirit to work in their hearts, they will die in their sin and I don't believe they will see heaven. They very well may be given over to this "reprobate mind," that finds the world, in all it's filthy rags, glorious. Such reprobate minds are deceived by the father of lies. They enjoy their sin and the immorality of this world. They are serving the god of this world.
I am not God however and I don't claim to be. Obviously He is the final word and the judge of all. His word (the Bible) offers much guidance that is abundantly clear for those who are focused on Him. One who is focused on Him will have little problem perceiving of and enjoying the Christian lifestyle. One who is of a reprobate mind will find the life of a devout Christian to be highly unappealing, lame, boring, and a host of other sundry adjectives.
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 8:46 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
|
SL,
The C&P you posted said:Since Christians continue in Christ’s word, they could never be turned over to a reprobate mind. A believer may get to the point where his faith is weak or fall into sin and, consequently, go so far as to forget “that he was purged from his old sins” (2 Peter 1:9), but he could never be rejected or abandoned by God.
Not quite what you explained in your last post. The people being described here actually forget completely that Jesus and his father purged them from old sins. These people aren't anything like those you described. The people you give as an example sin involuntarily and still ask for forgiveness. People that forget that Jesus and his father purged them of their old sins, would not be repentent of their current sins.
Please explain the quote from the C&P you posted and try to answer the questions I asked you.
Peace
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 9:14 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
|
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,227
|
Now you say that a person can be truly converted and born again, but slip into sin even to the point where they may forget Jesus' sacrifice for the old sins this sacrifice purged, and still not be rejected or abandoned by god.
Why is this person still considered born again? They also failed to continue in christ's word. So why are they still considered "saved"? These people sinned and even forgot that Jesus took their old sins upon him and purged them.
Umm..this person has amnesia? I don't know, Sail. Someone who has a mental illness or a disease of the mind that causes conflict with their initial salvation experience might receive mercy and they should, shouldn't they?
Just as an aside, every quoted source I post I do not necessarily always agree with one hundred percent, nor do I always understand every single word within said source and what its author is attempting to explain. I'm not God and never claimed to be. I only have the knowledge I have and in this particular case, I'm rather at a loss to understand what scenario the author is speaking to in this example you've given.
Why would god reject or abandon a person that truly didn't understand what "continuing in christ's word" or "being born again" meant, yet not reject or abandon a person that you claim understood these terms but then sinned and even erased what Jesus did for them from their minds?
I don't personally believe God will reject or abandon a person who doesn't understand salvation and directions within the Bible. For example, God isn't going to reject or abandon one who has never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I'm not sure how a believer, short of amnesia or brain damage, could forget what Jesus did for them and not understand that Jesus died for their sins, but perhaps there is some scenario that I'm overlooking that God would offer the beliver mercy within.
|
|
| |
|
| May 1 @ 9:55 PM |
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist |
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
|
Just as an aside, every quoted source I post I do not necessarily always agree with one hundred percent, nor do I always understand every single word within said source and what its author is attempting to explain. I'm not God and never claimed to be. I only have the knowledge I have and in this particular case, I'm rather at a loss to understand what scenario the author is speaking to in this example you've given. Why would you C&P or quote anything that you have not thoroughly read and agreed with?
We are not in a C&P posting game. No prizes will be awarded.
I have in the past presented articles that were pertinent to a thread's topic that contained things that I personally did not believe in, but I stated that in the post.
Seems to me that you are only using the same method that Bev used to relieve her frustrations. Bev would actually post pages upon pages of endless christian propaganda when the "does not compute light" went on in her mind.
Peace
|
| |
|
|
|
|