| Jun 11 @ 8:50 AM |
The Way
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,235
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Nature of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ had no existence before his birth except in the mind (foreknowledge) of God. Although Jesus was a perfect sinless man, he was only a man, 'the second Adam', not God. Wierwille asserted that God and Jesus Christ are separate, independently-thinking entities who are literally father and son.
Holy Spirit vs. holy spirit
Regarding the Holy Spirit, Wierwille taught that there is a distinction between "The Holy Spirit" and "holy spirit", with the former referring directly to God the Father, while the latter refers to the gift from God (a.k.a. "the gift of holy spirit" or "Christ in us"). In Receiving the Holy Spirit Today he put forth his view that translators lacked understanding when they did not distinguish between upper case and lower case usage The Way International is a religious organization founded by Victor Paul Wierwille. It claims a founding date of 1942, the year Wierwille began his Vesper Chimes radio program, a.k.a. the Chimes Hour Youth Caravan. The Way describes itself as a Christian biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry that teaches others how to understand the Bible and operate the "9 manifestations of holy spirit". Critics accuse the group of being a cult; some point out inconsistencies between The Way's doctrines and orthodox Christianity. This group is non-trinitarian and believes Jesus Christ is the savior and the Son of God, but not God Himself. THE WAY
Yet another example of Radical Christianity, what is the Real Christianity I for one no longer think their is one.
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| Jun 12 @ 3:36 AM |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Say what? 
Remember, Jesus foreteold that there would be countless false doctrines taught in the end days. We're being flooded with 'em. If people aren't confused out the arse, then I'm surprised. Hey, I'll admit that even I have been confused from time to time and had to get myself firmly grounded back in the word of God to get back on track, and this is why Jesus clearly told us to be careful.
If one doesn't really know their Bible and know it well, if one isn't grounded and centered firmly and unshakably in the basics of Christianity as taught by the Bible as the word of God, one is in trouble.
The abundance of supposedly Christian doctrines are only going to get more wilder and more confusing as we move on downward. Hang on for the ride, kids...we're goin' down quick!
Here's another opinion that I found I shared much in common with. Take a look at the whole article. It's all true:
THE BIBILE UNDER ATTACK
THE SECULAR WORLD
The general consensus regarding spiritual truth in the secular world is that there’s a little truth in every religion and not one faith embodies the whole truth -- at least to those people who are deists or agnostics that think we just can’t know. Atheists think all religion is utter nonsense, but they’re the minority in America anyway.
The advancement of the new age movement in the secular realm, especially in the area of medicine and philosophy, has permeated secular collective thinking. People by the droves are hungering after anything supernatural or mystical – not in a quest for truth – but a quest for titillation.
The Bible, once held in high esteem in the world, is now seen as just one of many ancient books with no relevance for today. The Gideon Bible is becoming a scarcity in hotel rooms across America. When I asked one innkeeper why there was no Bible in the room he told me it was not politically correct to advance one religious book over others.
The Bible used to be a mainstay in the courts in America, but in many courtrooms it is no longer used for swearing to tell the whole truth. A mere affirmation without a hand on the Bible is now sufficient.
I heard a song on the radio recently that spelled out the secular opinion of Christianity. The male voice sang, "The world is too large for just one religion." America, and the world, has no tolerance for anyone to claim certainty about anything.
ECUMENICAL UNITY IN DIVERSITY
Those who believe what the Bible teaches and defend the faith that was once and for all given to the church 2,000 years ago, have been marginalized. They are given labels, depending upon which group is speaking, as heresy hunters, Pharisees, and legalists. This keeps most Christians silent because they don't want to be disliked.
The call today in all streams of Christendom is to allow the secular culture to dictate how we interpret and live out Scripture as those calling ourselves Christian. They say we have to change in order to be relevant and they denounce any who allow the Bible to dictate belief and behavior as dogmatic and backward. The Post-modern theology has no absolutes and the enemy are those who take the Bible literally.
These kinds of ideas could never invade a Bible-believing church with a frontal attack. No, they come in the back door and introduce these ideas in steps so the leaven is incremental. The Bible warns us of this strategy: "For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ" Jude 1:4.
So the question is, Where are they taking us?
A return to idols – iconology;
Celebration of christianized pagan rituals;
Mixture of sacred and profane ideas;
Renouncing of the authority of the Bible for an anything goes tolerance;
Trade in the old stories (of the Bible) for new stories of what God is doing today in all religious traditions;
Spiritism – any and all spiritual experiences are acceptable if they appear positive;
Panentheism – the belief that everything in creation is a part of God’s essence;
No doctrines of the fall, redemption, hell in exchange for universalism – all humans are God’s people;
Acceptance of the "gay lifestyle" as equal to heterosexual;
All become one and transform the planet into a peaceful place where all religions have truth and celebrate together.
CONCLUSION
This ecumenical attack on the Word of God is filling a void in the Body of Christ in a time in which a pandemic of lukewarmness has set in. This is due in part to a post-holy-laughter apathy in churches who followed after titillating spiritual experiences that left them empty and unsatisfied when it did not live up to its hype. All the talk of the coming greatest end-times revivals has not happened and so those banking on these coming "moves of God" are left disappointed. They are ready for something new. They like hearing that "God is doing a new thing." What He did in the times of the Old and New Testaments aren’t relevant to people today. They want something they can see, hear, taste, smell and touch now. They want something new and now.
[Edited on 6/12/2009 3:44 AM]
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| Jun 12 @ 3:36 AM |
The Way
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Paul ran into this in Athens in Acts 17:16, 21 – "Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols… For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing."
But there is nothing new under the sun. These carnal desires have led God’s people into error for thousands of years. These carnal urges caused the Israelites to build a golden calf. These carnal urges motivated the Jewish leaders in Jesus’ day to seek after a sign, to which Jesus responded, "It is an evil and perverse generation that seeks after a sign." He directed them back to the writing of the prophets and to the sign of Jonah. New Testament believers are to "walk by faith, and not by sight." But the carnal man can only worship what he can see.
What is emerging is slimy and evil and, for the present time, undefeatable. God has blinded the minds of those who do not love His Word of Truth. The most we can do is rescue a few who stumbled in accidentally and point the way out to them before they are swallowed up and assimilated into the Mother Harlot. She is being formed before our very eyes – "Look up for our redemption draweth nigh!"
http://www.apostasyalert.org/bible_under_attack.htm
[Edited on 6/12/2009 3:44 AM]
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| Jun 12 @ 3:37 AM |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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dp
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| Jun 12 @ 5:23 AM |
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eyesofastranger
Posts: 922
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If one doesn't really know their Bible and know it well, if one isn't grounded and centered firmly and unshakably in the basics of Christianity as taught by the Bible as the word of God, one is in trouble.
I suppose I'm in trouble. Why is it such a fulfilling place? Maybe I personaly don't need any structure beyond my worldly life. I don't believe in it's all about me, I am just one entity in a world of entities. I keep a together sort of mind and wouldn't need help from the psychiatric community. I believe in suck it up buddy you put yourself here.
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| Jun 15 @ 8:59 AM |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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I don't believe in it's all about me, I am just one entity in a world of entities
Religionists are constantly accusing the atheistic school of thought of promoting selfishness. We are NOT the ones who see a geocentric model of the universe or see our existence as the epitome of creation from a celestial father figure. It is they who see themselves as such special creatures. Is it any wonder that they sense an attack when people of logical mind challenge their cherished beliefs with science, fact and reason?
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| Jun 18 @ 12:33 PM |
The Way
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,235
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"In the strictest sense, we cannot actually
think about life and reality at all, because
this would have to include thinking about
thinking, thinking about thinking about
thinking, and so *ad infinitum*. One can
only attempt a rational, descriptive philosophy
of the universe on the assumption that one is
totally separate from it. But if you and your
thoughts are part of this universe, you cannot
stand outside them to describe them. This is
why all philosophical and theological systems
must ultimately fall apart. To 'know' reality
you cannot stand outside and define it; you
must enter into it, be it, and feel it.
Speculative philosophy, as we know it in the
West, is almost entirely a symptom of the
divided mind, of man trying to stand outside
himself and his experience in order to verbalize
and define it. It is a vicious circle, like
everything else which the divided mind attempts."
Alan Watts Selected Writings
From: 'The Wisdom of Insecurity':
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| Oct 27 @ 10:29 AM |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,235
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Remember, Jesus foreteold that there would be countless false doctrines taught in the end days. Jesus never said this it ways simply contributed to him via the revisions to the bible. Every thing contributed to him as words was and is hearsay.
I suggest you look up hearsay.
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| Oct 27 @ 2:19 PM |
The Way
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dizzydoll
Posts: 560
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Every thing contributed to him as words was and is hearsay.
thats true, i think the earliest writings about Jesus came 50 years after his death. Before that stories about him were told from one generation to the next 
However i am not saying that those writings were not inspired by the holy ghost.
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| Oct 27 @ 3:43 PM |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,434
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Thank you southernlass.  This was the first time that I read this thread.
Thank you for going to the trouble.
It sure doesn't take too much effort to see a few false doctrines circulating these days. 
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| Oct 27 @ 4:14 PM |
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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SOC, if you already know the only true, complete, correct and infallible doctrine in its one and only guise - and the Creator is therefore completely satisfied with your extensive knowledge and correct interpretation of his text - then what is the purpose of your interaction on a religion and spirituality thread...?
Is it to exchange quotes with other completely like-minded people who have precisely the same interpretation as your own infallible one?
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| Oct 27 @ 5:07 PM |
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theorize
Posts: 78
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maybe you are unsure of the true christanity because you are always seeking the false.
thor take a look at the different threads in this forum, how many threads are started as direct attacks on christanity versus the number of attacking threads are started by christians. it's very obvious that there are a number of non-christans waging a personal war on christanity, but go ahead and think you are unbiased. The self-fulfilling prophecy certainly is a bitch.
Many of remarks made also resemble racial slurs and prejudiced opinions, claiming to be based in fact and science while doing this is absurd.
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| Oct 27 @ 5:27 PM |
The Way
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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The teachings of Jesus are the valuable content. It's very clear that message has been altered since. This is obvious because the message was integrated into a political power structure known as the Roman Empire and used as a means of ideological control within that Empire. It was then disseminated through that Empire. That is a historical fact that is not contained within the pages of the bible.
The Roman Catholic Church, the Vatican and the Pope are the direct heirs of that Empire. According to these institutions, for hundreds of years, anyone who wrote or preached differently was a heretic and was to be tortured and burned. That is how the 'truth about the bible' was established - by men. That process of purifying heresy included Lutherans, Protestants and Gnostics. Until they were powerful enough to create their own states without Vatican control. That was achieved by a very long and violent conflict.
And so you know what the 'true' Christianity is? Well that is quite some achievement. You must have connections in high places. 
I'm happy with the idea that Jesus taught what Christianity was.
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| Oct 27 @ 6:50 PM |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,434
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"SOC, if you already know the only true, complete, correct and infallible doctrine in its one and only guise - and the Creator is therefore completely satisfied with your extensive knowledge and correct interpretation of his text - then what is the purpose of your interaction on a religion and spirituality thread...?" 
Have I ever stated anything so ludicrous??
Have I ever claimed to know every single nuance of Christianity?
Don't be foolish cpufan.
I approach the threads here as potential sources of new information regarding Christianity.
I've learned many things here. (Despite the efforts of some to distract the attention away from Christianity and onto their witty-little selves.)
Bible study is a life-long pursuit. For one to believe otherwise is utter hubris. Some in this forum are indeed capable of such over-whelming pride. I am not one of them.
Get off my back. I compliment another despised Christian. And that provides you with an opening to insult me??
I thought you were okay before. But you've been slipping a little bit down the incline of respectability lately.
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| Oct 27 @ 7:01 PM |
The Way
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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thor take a look at the different threads in this forum, how many threads are started as direct attacks on christanity versus the number of attacking threads are started by christians. it's very obvious that there are a number of non-christans waging a personal war on christanity, but go ahead and think you are unbiased. The self-fulfilling prophecy certainly is a bitch.
Many of remarks made also resemble racial slurs and prejudiced opinions, claiming to be based in fact and science while doing this is absurd.
Yes, it is very obvious to those who have eyes to see. Very few who are not simply blind cannot not see it. It's been obvious to most rational individuals who have no stake in the outcome of these discussions, as well.
The sheer hatred of God, of Jesus Christ, of all Abrahamic religions are what fuels these individuals and they are tireless day after day here in their spiritual and earthly attacks. It would be funny if it weren't just so scary, on some level.
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| Oct 28 @ 12:22 AM |
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kjac
Posts: 8,163
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It's been obvious to most rational individuals who have no stake in the outcome of these discussions, as well.
Saying this promotes the belief that someone actually has a stake in the outcome of these discussions. Do you believe that is so?
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| Oct 28 @ 2:42 AM |
The Way
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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It sure doesn't take too much effort to see a few false doctrines circulating these days. You were insulting all but your own beliefs right here. Once again, you made the big assumption of speaking on behalf of God.
So don't talk to me about respect.  You don't even know what the word means.
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| Oct 28 @ 8:22 AM |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,010
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thor take a look at the different threads in this forum, how many threads are started as direct attacks on christanity versus the number of attacking threads are started by christians. it's very obvious that there are a number of non-christans waging a personal war on christanity, but go ahead and think you are unbiased. The self-fulfilling prophecy certainly is a bitch. The fact so many Christians seem to believe you're being attacked is proof to me many of you are paranoid......you think anyone who disagrees with you in any way is out to get you. Nothing could be further from the truth, as far as I'm concerned.
I see Christianity had free reign for over 1,000 years when people either couldn't read and write and were told what God wanted them to believe. Anyone who disagreed found himself on the end of a rope, a sword or a rack. Plus, scholars have shown the Bible isn't holy at all and much of it is contradictory, degrading and insulting to women, full of fables and myths as well as just plain hard to understand in many places. Christians fight all the time about what the proper hermenuticlal enterpretation of a text is. Pick any of Jesus parables and do a commentary search to find out what it means. Try making sense of it without your own personal interpretation.
You were insulting all but your own beliefs right here. Once again, you made the big assumption of speaking on behalf of God. SOC can dish it out but he sure can't take it, can he? Soc, why don't you give your own interpretation of scriptures as I and others have asked you on numerous threads? You just give others a thumbs up and PTL but you never comment on hard scriptual passages yourself. Why is that?
Jesus never said this it ways simply contributed to him via the revisions to the bible. Every thing contributed to him as words was and is hearsay. I was thinking that the people who wrote the Bible covered their butts pretty good because whenever a thoughtful, rational and logical question is asked by someone who doubts the veracity of the Bible, the Bible gives a threatening or obtuse answer.
So, here's an answer from the Bible for those who think God isn't fair, or for those who question why he does what he does. NOtice the vague threat in verse 20 to anyone who dares question why God does what he does. Thunder and lightening anyone?
Taken from NASB Bible
Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16 So then it {does} not {depend} on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Rom 9:22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
Rom 9:23 And {He did so} to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
[Edited on 10/28/2009 8:37 AM]
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| Oct 28 @ 8:23 AM |
The Way
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eyesofastranger
Posts: 922
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I live my life by strict rules. Even a white lie is unacceptable to me. Then the cosmos seems to provide everything I need. I live by Jesus's word as well as several other great thinkers. There was a point where all these words made sense to me. I have lied before but it was a case of I was mistaken. Without any belief in a messiah or a ridiculous trinity thingy maybe I'm a true Cristian
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| Oct 28 @ 8:39 AM |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,235
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The sheer hatred of God, of Jesus Christ, of all Abrahamic religions are what fuels these individuals and they are tireless day after day here in their spiritual and earthly attacks. It would be funny if it weren't just so scary, on some level. What a dumb thing to say "HATRED" why should we Hate a thing(s) that we believe are mystical and man made?
To speak out about the validity of something is not hate.
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