| Aug 13, 2009 @ 12:47 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,371
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Pastor Don said:
You have just whipped through three matters of faith masquerading as science: 1) That the beginning of life was caused by certain condtions on earth; 2) That this happened over millions of years; 3) That newly discovered species have evolved. Science has not tested or observed any of these (as you yourself point out). I realize that many scientists still claim these are matters of science, yet they compromise true science in doing so.
You mean, as opposed to accepting creationism as science? I've said before that there's no way of proving anything - unless and until we can see it replicated, creation is not proven. I'm sure you know of Occam's razor...the simplest solution is usually the true one. You're postulating the existence of God, who created everything separately - he created the heavens and the earth, then the beasts and finally the pinnacle of creation, man. He then chose a group in Ur, and made Abraham the father of the clan, and various other men along the line as prophets, who alone received his word and were in turn given the right to kill, rape, maim and pillage as they pleased, with no promise of eternal life or anything resembling that until Jesus Christ came along a few thousand years later and died on the cross to provide that eternal life to all who met the laws that he imposed in place of the original laws. I'm postulating the existence of God, who set in motion the creation...not a single event, but an ongoing one, whose pinnacle of creation may not have even been achieved yet.
Pastor Don said:
So, you're saying it is a fact that life has not evolved in a laboratory environment--but that this is not proof that life did not evolve. Therefore, we are to scientifically conclude that life DID evolve? And this is science?
Yes, that's exactly what science is. As Iam later pointed out, labs have indeed begun to recreate the primordial soup, the quote below is from his post, and it's his quote. I've actually read that the creation of very simple life forms is expected to occur in the next decade. Science takes theories and discards them as they're disproven, and promotes them as bits and pieces are proven. Religion accepts the translations, mistranslations, additions and deletions from a time when man believed the earth to be flat as absolute truth. It's not that we've concluded that life DID evolve, but we've been finding over and over that the facts found support the theory.
Iam's quote said:
Life’s First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory
A fundamental but elusive step in the early evolution of life on Earth has been replicated in a laboratory.
Researchers synthesized the basic ingredients of RNA, a molecule from which the simplest self-replicating structures are made. Until now, they couldn’t explain how these ingredients might have formed.
Pastor Don said:
I am accepting their word--but not blindly, as you have blindly accepted the word of scientists in their speculations about the origin of life. I accept their word because of internal and external evidence that the Bible books are exactly what they claim to be: God speaking to us. And you better not rely on Dan Brown's fiction to educate you on how the Bible books became part of the canon: Constantine had nothing to do with it. The Diatessaron (A.D. 150) is a harmony of the same four gospels we have. The Muratorian Fragment (A.D. 170) lists the same four gospels (and only these), along with most of the other NT books.
This has all been up for so much debate among theologians that I'm not going there. Of course Constantine had something to do with it, regardless of whether Dan Brown mentioned it or not. The Council of Nicea is well documented, as well as the pressure brought to bear by Constantine on the various Bishops there.
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| Aug 13, 2009 @ 2:45 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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bunnybiz
Posts: 4,921
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Matt.10:28--"And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (and, btw, "destroy" doesn't mean annihilate, but "ruin"). The word "immortal" is not used here, but it is described as being immortal--as lasting beyond the grave. Wrong!
Really "destroy" means ruin? I don't see the word ruin or any word that implies immortality in the Greek definition
Mat 10:28 AndG2532 fearG5399 notG3361 (G575) them which killG615 theG3588 body,G4983 butG1161 are notG3361 ableG1410 to killG615 theG3588 soul:G5590 butG1161 ratherG3123 fearG5399 him which is ableG1410 to destroyG622 bothG2532 soulG5590 andG2532 bodyG4983 inG1722 hell.G1067
G622
a?p?´???µ?
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
This verse is referring to the second resurrection - destroy the soul (carnal nature of man) to become the children of God which is in the fire gehenna (what has been translated as hell)
God created humanity in two stages, not three (Gen. 2:7):
1. "And the Lord God formed man [Heb: ‘adam, a human being’] of the dust [Heb: ‘aphar, powdered gray, hence clay’] of the ground [Heb: ‘adamah, soil’]
2. "and breathed into his nostrils the breath [Heb: ‘n’shahmah, puff, wind’] of life [Heb: ‘chay, alive, life, living’] and man became [Heb: ‘hayah, exist, be, become, come to pass’] a living [Heb: ‘chay, alive, life, living’] soul [Heb: ‘nephesh, a breathing creature, animal, vitality, mind, mortality’]." I don't see anyplace where he put in a immortal soul.
Check out Dr. Strong Concordance definition for soul from Hebrew nephesh = neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
"Shall Mortal man be more just than God…" (Job 4:17).
Check out Dr. Strong Concordance definition for soul from Greek psuche = psoo-khay'
"From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you."0
Even though Dr. Strong translated it soul in Hebrew has "mortal" he sneaks in immortal through own personal heresy. Well gee can man possess two souls - mortal and immortal? So the Greek word #4151 = pnuma, is the "immortal soul?"
In the King James Version, the words "spirit" and "ghost" are translated from the exact same Greek word "pnuma."
The Greek scriptures use pnuma approximately 360 times. So how many times is the word pnuma translated "immortal soul" out of 360? 100? No. 50? No. 10? No. 5? No. Would you believe none. Not one single time. Nor is it translated "soul".
Shouldn't a pastor know this?
I don't make this stuff up. This is from KJV Hebrew and Greek. Anyone can download the KJV bible and search any word through e-sword.net for free.
Yash
The dispute arises in an inconsistency in the Bible which states in Ephesians 2:8-9,[33] "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast" (NIV translation). However, work-based justification is supported by such excerpts as in James 2:24[34], Romans 2:6[35], Matthew 7:21[36], as well as Luke 10:25-37[37].
I saw this from Heaven in another thread and replied to it. It isn't faith alone. Martin Luther insert that word. Paul talk about "works of law". James talk about good works. They are different. Paul and James do not contradict. Faith without action is dead. Here is the link I didn't want to repost it. It is men once again perverting the word of God.
http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_87_36342_11/Atheist_Christian.html
[Edited on 8/13/2009 3:37 PM]
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 9:33 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,519
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Iam wrote: "Well, did anyone observe God create living cells by blowing wind into a pile of mud and then watch him cut a rib out of him to make a woman? The logic of you Pastor is works against him. The usual logic flaw is the argument from ignorance. "
You missed the point, Iam. I accept the fact that Genesis 1 is a belief system. But evolutionists claim that their "theories" of the origin of life come under the category of science. What I am showing is that, in reality, their theories are no more than faith. I appreciate the trouble you went to in rounding up the quotes from science journals. But even these demonstrate just what I am saying: "At some stage in the origin of life, an informational polymer must have arisen by purely chemical means" ..".the conditions required are not distinct from what one might imagine took place on the early Earth" "This is something that has a great deal of chances of happening on Earth"
"Must have" (translate: "we believe")..."imagine"..."chances". Iam, this is either the language of a belief system, or we need to start calling religious systems science.
Also, I was struck by the incredible amount of work, planning, trial and error, etc. that these highly intelligent researchers went to--and just to finally create a ribonucleotide (which is only one small part of an RNA molecule...still a universe away from creating even one living cell). And to them (and you, Iam), this proved that it doesn't take intelligence to create life! Do you not get the irony (and I hope you are not too "morose and lugubrious" to appreciate the humor of such irony)?
"The Pastor also needs to know there is proof humans and other apes share a common ancestor and thats shown in chromosome 2. Therefore, any god would have no choice but to create human life by causing the mutation in chromosome #2 thereby creating a new species that will lead up to homosapians. Humans did not evolve from lower apes. Religious people even know what to complain about. Humans and apes both evolved from a common ancestor. Humans are in fact in the order of primates".
So, you (and other evolutionists) believe that sharing a common chromosome proves sharing a common ancestor. However, we creationists believe that it proves that they share a common Creator. In either case, we are talking about a faith--a belief system--based upon evidence.
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 9:41 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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Anyone can be a minister sans any education at all. One does not even need a high school diploma to become a minister. So why do people consider minister or pastors to be educated people? 
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 10:01 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,371
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What I am showing is that, in reality, their theories are no more than faith.
dictionary.com said:
–noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
Pastor, we're talking about two separate usages of the word faith here. You're using example 8 obviously, while we who don't have that faith are using definition 2. The TOE folks took quite a beating when it was found that humans only had 46 chromosomes, while all other primates had 48. They took it with good grace (and faith in their theory) and merely said they believed it would be proven that one of those chromosomes would turn out to have a mutation that would indicate that two smaller chromosomes had lost an end marker - i.e. it would have two center markers and two end markers. Chromosome 2 (ordered by size - the 2 indicates it's the second largest) was constructed exactly as predicted by the theory. You can say that doesn't mean God didn't create it that way, but where in the bible was that predicted?
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 10:26 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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I think the quote: We are but residue from the stars after the Earth cooled is by far the easiest answer. From this point Monotheist and other belief systems can argue.
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 10:48 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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iam01
Posts: 7,573
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Thanks Deb for that quick response. The pastor reveals a basic lack of scientific knowledge and had no idea what the scientific experiments had actually shown and proved. Maybe he should go back and read it again but take some basic instruction in the scientific method first so he can understand it at least on an elementary level.
He blows his cover with this statement
Also, I was struck by the incredible amount of work, planning, trial and error, etc. that these highly intelligent researchers went to--and just to finally create a ribonucleotide (which is only one small part of an RNA molecule...still a universe away from creating even one living cell)
Some points.
1) Just to? Is it that insignificant to one who doesn't understand how to do it?
2) Who is assuming any science is supposed to be easy?
3) Yes, work, planning, trial and error is what highly intelligent people do.
4) A universe away from creating a living cell? How is that measured? Before the experiment it was a universe away. Now were just a few miles away.
The idea in such experiments is to replicate conditions that took millions of years of natural selection to get to. All the experiment is showing is how something is possible under certain conditions. If something is possible then one can not say "no chance". If there is a chance, it will happen given enough time. This is just simple probability and statistics problem. Insurance company actuaries know this all too well. Is it possible to throw an unweighted coin on heads 100 times in a row? Yes it is. And there is plenty of time in a universe over 15 billion years old and an earth over 4.6 billion years old. But the pastor probably believes the earth is only 6000 years old so there was very little time for God to do his magic act and coincidentally at the same time Chili peppers were domesticated.
I bet the pastor also says "its only a theory" without having a clue what a "scientific" theory is comprised of. Its comprised of observed facts while his faith is comprised of no facts or evidence at all.
You missed the point, Iam. I accept the fact that Genesis 1 is a belief system. As opposed to Genesis 2? Can the pastor can tell us why this belief system is any more correct than the Sumerian creation myth where Genesis is actually copied from or the Hindu creation myth or the Navajo creation myth? What is the epistemological basis for a belief that is not based on any observed facts or evidence? Does he really believe a magical being picked up some dust and blew into it and then later pulled a rib to make a woman who later had a conversation with a snake or is that just an allegory? 
He clearly has no idea what Chromosome #2 shows and doesn't know why the placement of telemeres and centromers is meaningful. He said "sharing a common chromosome" and by saying that means he simply doesn't understand what Chromosome #2 actually shows.
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 11:38 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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I think we should ask this minister where he got his education and his certification from as a minister....The fact he calls himself a minister does not mean squat...
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 12:01 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,371
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From this point Monotheist and other belief systems can argue.
Oh, and do we ever!
I saw this from Heaven in another thread and replied to it. It isn't faith alone. Martin Luther insert that word. Paul talk about "works of law". James talk about good works. They are different. Paul and James do not contradict. Faith without action is dead. Here is the link I didn't want to repost it. It is men once again perverting the word of God.
Bunny, you're only reinforcing one of my main objections to revealed religion. Occam's razor is a pretty widely accepted methodology - the simplest solution is normally the correct one. This has been found to be true over and over again throughout all studies and disciplines, indicating that 'nature' or 'creation' favors the simplest answer. These findings are simply reflections of the basic laws of creation, and by derivation, the creator. Why then, would that creator whose most notable characteristic is elegance of solution, choose such a wildly convoluted way of teaching his/her/its children how to live? God's ways are not our ways doesn't even begin to answer that, as God's ways universally favor simplicity and elegance.
[Edited on 8/14/2009 12:07 PM]
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 12:40 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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To cite Martin Luther gives one cause for pause a saint he was not!
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 4:31 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,371
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Yash, Bunny WAS indicating that Luther twisted the scrptures to suit his own beliefs. 
That still is a part of why I just can't accept that a creator with the power to talk to some wouldn't use it to talk to all. I think he does, if we only listen, and when things feel 'right', it's because they are. I don't disagree with what Christ taught - I think he was listening. I think most of us have heard the same thing - love the creator/creation abve all else - call it God, call it the universe - to me that implies valuing of all we have, as well as protecting it; and love others as we do ourselves. Not more than, but as equal to...we have the right to live, but not any more than everyone else.
The problem is the amount of 'interpretation' along the way. Scripture can be used to justify pretty much anything anyone wants, but if we listen, we'll hear the words AND the music of what our creator's trying to tell us without reading them through the filter of other peoples' interpretations.
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 5:18 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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bunnybiz
Posts: 4,921
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Heaven, I did get that. And I realize not only Luther but several other men have twisted scriptures for their own reasons through out the ages. I know that we do not have the original scriptures and so many translations.. and so forth.. I understand why people would be skeptical or call it myths. I believe the truth is in there but comes down to love.. not lip service. I know that science is making great strides. I have watch about the M-theory and now about the possibility of creating a universe. Whatever I am called follower of Christ believing salvation for all and going to be transformed into a spirit realm or energy, light, heaven... as I can not define it. I believe mankind is being made into the image of Love.. and that is not completed yet. Many like me are looking at science as we study the word. We know you can not dismiss it. The would be foolish.
Even those there have problems with just allowing Creator to speak. We wonder why if He is so all powerful and loving can't He just zapped us with instant love, joy, patience, kindness... well because it takes time to be patient, learn joy .. without bad experiences can't appreciate the good .. it is a learning experience.. just like raising children. Thank you for taking the time to explain to me. I appreciate that. Be blessed.
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 6:08 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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iam01
Posts: 7,573
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What will the search for the original scriptures will lead to? A more original rendition of a supernatural being that is still based on the Sumerian pantheon? Will someone find an actual eye witness of Jesus who actually wrote down what was said such as "You can ride my ass if you let me ride yours" or "I learned how to change water into wine from Dionysus" or "Mommy looks just like Isis"? How different would it be finding the first draft of Alice in Wonderland? They're still fairytales, embellishments and exaggerations.
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 6:12 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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j_goose
Posts: 3,119
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Read Matthew 6:5. Jesus is not condemning all public praying, but public praying "in order to be seen by men." That is, hypocritical praying...praying and other worship that is aimed at obtaining the praise of men rather than the approval of God. It's very important to put things in context; instead, you ignored the context. In John 12:28, Jesus Himself offers a public prayer, to glorify God the Father
Ask the pastor why HE isn't taking scripture in context....
Here it is.....(notice the bold text)
Matthew 6:5-15 (New American Standard Bible)
5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to (A)stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners (B)so that they may be seen by men (C)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6"But you, when you pray, (D)go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and (E)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their (F)many words.
8"So do not be like them; for (G)your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
9"(H)Pray, then, in this way:
'Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10'(I)Your kingdom come
(J)Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11'(K)Give us this day our daily bread.
12'And (L)forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13'And do not lead us into temptation, but (M)deliver us from (N)evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]'
14"(O)For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15"But (P)if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
He mentions John 12:28....(again, take not of the bold)
27"(AL)Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, '(AM)Father, save Me from (AN)this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour.
28"(AO)Father, glorify Your name " Then a (AP)voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."
29So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "(AQ)An angel has spoken to Him."
30Jesus answered and said, "(AR)This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
Jesus prayed like the hypocrites he preached about in Matthew 6.
There is no stipulation in either scripture allowing for Church praying. Only ONE stipulation exists. And that is to pray in private.
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| Aug 14, 2009 @ 6:18 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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j_goose
Posts: 3,119
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Nebuchadnezzar is introduced as only BEGINNING this work of judgment upon Tyre. In Ezek.26:3, God says, "I will bring MANY nations against you", to accomplish this judgment. And, yes, Alexander the Great was the final agent used by God in this
Wrong....here's the whole chapter....(gain...the bold people..the bold)
7For thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, (I)king of kings, with horses, (J)chariots, cavalry and a great army.
8"He will slay your daughters on the mainland with the sword; and he will make (K)siege walls against you, cast up a (L)ramp against you and raise up a large shield against you.
9"The blow of his battering rams he will direct against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers.
10"Because of the multitude of his (M)horses, the dust raised by them will cover you; your walls will (N)shake at the noise of cavalry and wagons and chariots when he (O)enters your gates as men enter a city that is breached.
11"With the hoofs of his (P)horses he will trample all your streets He will slay your people with the sword; and your strong pillars will (Q)come down to the ground.
12"Also they will make a spoil of your riches and a prey of your (R)merchandise, (S)break down your walls and destroy your (T)pleasant houses, and throw your stones and your timbers and your debris (U)into the water.
13"So I will silence the sound of your (V)songs, and the sound of your (W)harps will be heard no more.
14"I will make you a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of nets. You will be (X)built no more, for I the (Y)LORD have spoken," declares the Lord GOD.
15Thus says the Lord GOD to Tyre, "Shall not the (Z)coastlands (AA)shake at the sound of your fall when the wounded groan, when the slaughter occurs in your midst?
16"Then all the princes of the sea will (AB)go down from their thrones, remove their robes and strip off their embroidered garments They will (AC)clothe themselves with trembling; they will sit on the ground, (AD)tremble every moment and be appalled at you.
17"They will take up a (AE)lamentation over you and say to you,
'(AF)How you have perished, O inhabited one,
From the seas, O renowned city,
Which was (AG)mighty on the sea,
She and her inhabitants,
Who imposed her terror
On all her inhabitants!
18'Now the (AH)coastlands will tremble
On the day of your fall;
Yes, the coastlands which are by the sea
Will be terrified at your (AI)passing.'"
19For thus says the Lord GOD, "When I make you a desolate city, like the cities which are not inhabited, when I (AJ)bring up the deep over you and the great waters cover you,
20then I will bring you down with those who (AK)go down to the pit, to the people of old, and I will make you dwell in the (AL)lower parts of the earth, like the ancient waste places, with those who go down to the pit, so that you will not be inhabited; but I will set (AM)glory in the land of the living.
21"I will bring (AN)terrors on you and you will be no more; though you will be sought, (AO)you will never be found again," declares the Lord GOD.
by the end of this passage, Nebuchadnezzar has laid waste to Tyer..not mention O Alexander the Great.
Does this guy stop reading entire texts as soon as he thinks he has the answer?
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| Aug 15, 2009 @ 1:26 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 19,017
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"j"...I believe what the Pastor is referring to is the Tyre siege by Alexander the Great in 332 BC. This was the "new" Tyre city.
City of Tyre was a divided city...
Tyre the old mainland city was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar II and his Chaldean army which was developed from 10 nations of the 10 kings. in 573 B.C. and took place 3 years after Ezekiel's prophesy. When he broke the gates down, the city was nearly empty; (the city had been breached), the people had moved from this mainland Tyre to an island half a mile away and fortified a city there...this became the new Tyre.
The new Tyre city and her causeway connecting the new Tyre island city was made from the old destructed mainland Tyre city debris of the walls, stones, dirt, pillars, etc. In 332 B.C, began a seven month seige by Alexander the Great of the new Tyre island city fortress.
'Til this day, the Island city of Tyre only exists as a rock, for the fishermen use her to spread their nets to dry and port their vessels. The once great ancient metropolis invaded by the babylonians and persians was never to exist again.
The modern city of Tyre "island" is currently inhabit by over 60,000 Palestinian Sunni Muslim refugees.
I hoped this helped...
[Edited on 8/15/2009 1:55 AM]
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| Aug 15, 2009 @ 9:31 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,519
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Anyone can be a minister sans any education at all. One does not even need a high school diploma to become a minister. So why do people consider minister or pastors to be educated people?
So, Yash, you think that a belief system cannot be based on evidence? I realize that people have defined faith as a belief without evidence. But this is not at all the way the Bible defines it. Are you not familiar with Hebrews 11:1? Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. This is why the Apostle Paul says that the eternal power and divine nature of the Creator are clearly seen through what has been made, so that they are without excuse(Romans 1:20). That is, biblical faith is a response to the evidence God has given of Himself in Creation evidence so strong and clear that anyone who denies God has no excuse .
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| Aug 15, 2009 @ 9:38 AM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,519
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I realize that people have defined faith as a belief without evidence. But this is not at all the way the Bible defines it. It sounds like circular reasoning to me. The Bible says we are to believe in a god who did great and mighty miracles in the past. We are to believe that god did all the things he said he did - such as - Creation of Adam and Eve and everything else in 6 days, Noah's flood, tower of babel, exodus from Egypt, Jesus virgin birth, death and resurrection, simply because the bible says so.
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| Aug 15, 2009 @ 12:06 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor?
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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Christianity lost me when I discover as a teenager that the whole idea of the Christian God standing outside of all there is and is not [where is that exactly?] When I learned they stole the entire concept of this from the ancient Greek Atomist to set their religion apart from other belief systems of those times well I started a long journey of researching actual facts and those are very skimpy in the bible most of it is hearsay 2,3,4 and more times removed from actual facts.
The Age of Reason clearly defines why Monotheism is all man made religions but for those of you without a PhD in Theology well common sense will get you to the same point. 
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| Aug 15, 2009 @ 1:54 PM |
Anybody have question for a pastor? |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,519
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Iamalso said, "If something is possible then one cannot say 'no chance'. If there is a chance, it will happen given enough time. This is just simple probability and statistics problem."
What this experiment proved was that materials must be systematically "synthesized" (the word they used). They even used radiation to fabricate even the beginnings of an RNA molecule. And, if you think this is just one hop from creating a living cell, then you are being simplistic. What you also don't understand is that raw forces of nature do not integrate increasingly complex systems of matter; rather, they disintegrate them. For energy to work towards integration, there must be a highly complex mechanism already in place to control and utilize that energy, a mechanism such as photosynthesis. Just throwing a lot of energy (sunlight, radiation, etc.) at a system will only break it down, not build it up. I could synthesize a lot of lumber into a house. But this doesnt mean that given enough time, the sun, wind, lightning, radiation, etc. would itself synthesis trees into a house. To the contrary, such energy (as we well know today) will only tear down and wear down the trees, even if given millions of years to do so. And, living systems are much much more complex than any house. ____________________________________________________________
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