| Aug 8 @ 8:55 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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In another thread, I posted:
I asked Ana to show me scripture where Jesus said Homosexuality is wrong. He couldn't. Can YOU???
SL replied....
Shut up, fool.
Flush yourself
I'm not familiar with this verse...is it from Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?
Now I can uderstand SL's confuson. Jesus never states in the NT (Not once) that homosexuality is wrong.
I issued the challenge, and SL accepted if I started a thread.
Timer's ticking.....
Tick tock tick tock
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| Aug 8 @ 8:57 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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Jesus said he'd come to form a new covenant, and that only two commandments applied: love God, and love your neighbor.
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| Aug 8 @ 9:04 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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That's actually fuinny. My neighbor is a dude...... 
This topic will go one of two ways....
someone will quote Paul. That wouldn't count. Nothing Paul wrote was Jesus' words.
Or
Someone will cite Mosaic Law. Particularly Deut. Unfortunately, Christians consistantly admit that Mosiac Law no longer applies. Either way I win.....
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| Aug 8 @ 9:12 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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Why wouldn't Paul count?
Paul served God. Paul was an excellent example of a converted ATHEIST.
Paul became one of the strongest of Christian soldiers. You, as an atheist, do not get to tell me, as a Christian, what counts and what doesn't within the word of God. How utterly absurd!
Here are the other verses:
Leviticus 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.” (NIV)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (NIV)
Genesis 2:24 – “For this reason a man will leave his father and other and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.” (NIV)
Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” (NIV)
Romans 1:24-25 – “Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator – who is forever praised. Amen.” (NIV)
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)
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| Aug 8 @ 9:20 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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Paul wasn't an atheist. Not unless you count Jews as atheists. Paul was a strict, moralistic Jew.
And why do Paul's letters count, when there were so many other epistles that were excluded? Paul took what Jesus said and complicated it beyond reason.
What's so hard to understand? "Love God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." Instead, Paul started layering on all that nitpicking legalism of the Pharisees, the stuff that Jesus railed against.
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| Aug 8 @ 9:30 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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God created man and woman to be joined together as man and wife.
I'm not saying that homosexuals cannot know God and experience salvation, but according to the bible, homosexuality is sin in the eyes of God. A homosexual can pray and appeal to God and through that, imo, experience salvation. At that time, according to the word of God, I believe that a homosexual who has experienced salvation will desire to repent of it and turn from those desires because he/she will realize that they are not in line with God's word.
I should mention that I am extremely tolerant of my homosexual brothers and sisters in regard to their choices of mate and whom they love, and I have no intent to judge them whatsoever. I can only show them what the bible says in this regard, and feel that for those who are torn, they must take this up with God, like the rest of us will take up each one of our sins and the things that we have difficulty with, on Judgment Day.
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| Aug 8 @ 9:35 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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So what part of "love your fellow man as yourself" includes homophobia?
And there were quite a lot of bigamists in the Bible. Plus old guys marrying barely post-pubescent girls. Gotta love all that stuff... 
Plus do you agree with the whole "husbands, feel free to beat your wives" passage?
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| Aug 8 @ 9:39 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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So what part of "love your fellow man as yourself" includes homophobia?
And there were quite a lot of bigamists in the Bible. Plus old guys marrying barely post-pubescent girls. Gotta love all that stuff...
Plus do you agree with the whole "husbands, feel free to beat your wives" passage?
What I don't understand and can't explain about the bible, I merely accept and move along. I believe the bible, period. Christianity is based upon it and particularly the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I have no homophobia -- none whatsoever. I feel very sorry for those who do as I believe that is as much sin as theirs apparently is. We are to love the sinner and hate the sin.
None of us can throw stones, imo. I've sinned enough to know that I don't need to be judging others for their sins as they will take that up with God. I've got enough on my plate with my own struggles, as do we all, I'm sure.
As to the portion about beating one's wives, of course not. No, I don't personally believe that. I counsel domestic abuse victims.
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| Aug 8 @ 9:47 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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Either you follow everything in the Old Testament, or nothing. Or you can decide to pick-and-choose. If you're going to pick-and-choose, find something that JESUS said to back it up.
Not some ex-Pharisee who, in being converted, chose to apply the same nitpicking legalism to a new religion. Jesus railed against people who were more concerned with being precisely correct via the letter of the law, while gleefully violating the intent of the law.
Jesus summarized the lessons of the Old Testament into just two commandments. Ten commandments were too hard for people to follow, people were always looking for loopholes, so maybe he figured two would be easier? (It's still too hard, apparently. I doubt more than 5% of Christians follow both commandments...)
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| Aug 8 @ 9:48 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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Jesus did not mean that you have free licensure to sin ...and that all you have to do is love your neighbor as yourself. If you actually believe that, I believe you will be in for a very rude awakening upon His return.
In regard to domestic abuse:
[And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.” Exodus 21:20 ]
Anyway, there are other passages I've cited above that appear in the NT that clearly state that homosexuality is not appropriate in God's eyes.
Edited to add this:
Those who have sincerely received the salvation of Jesus Christ no longer desire to sin. This is one of the ways that we can recognize them; they are bearing fruit that resembles that of the spirit of God. This does not mean that they are perfect or that when they are taunted to the extreme that they will meekly lay down and be your doormat, btw.
[Edited on 8/8/2009 10:00 PM]
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| Aug 8 @ 10:01 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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And what is a sin? There are only two commandments. Can a homosexual not love God? Can a homosexual not treat someone else with as much respect as they'd like themselves?
If you're going to pick-and-choose, why are YOU the one choosing? There's plenty of rules in the Old Testament: 248 "do this" and 364 "don't do this" commandments. Which of these do you follow? And which of these are no longer necessary, because of Jesus? And why do you make the distinctions?
Edit:
Anyway, there are other passages I've cited above that appear in the NT that clearly state that homosexuality is not appropriate in God's eyes.
Ahhhh... So you believe that the backsliding of Christianity into Pharisaic practices is a good thing?
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| Aug 8 @ 10:07 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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I'm not allowed to sin. I'm to attempt to please God. He knows I'm not perfect though, and as a Gentile, I don't have to concern myself with dietary rules etc., as the Jewish do. I don't know enough about the Jewish however to speak with much knowledge regarding them and what they feel they must honor in the Old Testament.
Jesus as the final sacrifice has removed my need to be judged by the Law as I've received His salvation and eternal life. This doesn't mean that the Law is abolished and that we can run around sinning to our heart's content. The NT is clear that there are many things that are not pleasing to God. Sexual intimacy with the same gender is not pleasing to God, but neither is fornication or a host of other things.
When we receive salvation, we desire to please God; thus we will strive to do so through not sinning; this does not mean however that we will never sin. I think God looks at the heart, at the intent of one's heart. In guessing, I would assume God is more concerned with the repentance of the act of sin. Or the trying to not sin, if you will. I don't think God expects that we will be perfect. He is interested in our attempt at trying not to engage in that which displeases him.
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| Aug 8 @ 10:12 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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So, again, you've taken Jesus's new covenant to heart... EXCEPT where it applies to homosexuals.
Are there any of those other commands you've decided to keep, that aren't covered by the two Commandments that Jesus chose to single out?
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| Aug 8 @ 10:15 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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Let's take Ted Haggard as an example:
Ted was sinning in his heart and with his body. He knew it. He probably repented a thousand times. He may repent a thousand more, and will he sin again? Only God knows.
Ted obviously has "homosexual tendencies," but Ted knows the bible. He's a minister so he knows it well. While Ted has these tendencies and these are actions that appeal to his fleshly man, Ted has chosen to get honest with the world, ask forgiveness from God and those he disappointed through lying to them etc., and has now received that forgiveness and has REPENTED of his sin of desiring the same sex. He's receiving counseling in order to continue to please God and attempt not to sin in God's eyes. What more could the man do?
In my opinion, he's handled this correctly and will likely find honor in God's eyes because he finally became honest and is attempting to overcome his sinful, fleshly, carnate man. We are flesh on this earth and it is difficult not to sin. Ted is doing what he can to get right with God.
Edit: Ted was also committing adultery, so he was not only attempting to fight homosexual urges, but to be faithful to his wife as well.
So, again, you've taken Jesus's new covenant to heart... EXCEPT where it applies to homosexuals.
Are there any of those other commands you've decided to keep, that aren't covered by the two Commandments that Jesus chose to single out?
You'll need to show me where in scripture that it states that we can sin to our hearts content and ONLY need to keep two commandments, thus negating the entire New and old Testament, and the scripture where Jesus came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill the Law.
[Edited on 8/8/2009 10:20 PM]
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| Aug 8 @ 10:19 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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So, again, just so I'm clear, you're choosing to ignore approximately 400 or 500 of the Old Testament's rules, but you've singled out homosexuality as a sin...
Correct?
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| Aug 8 @ 10:21 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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Not correct and I never said I was "choosing to ignore anything." You're twisting my words.
You'll need to show me where in scripture that it states that we can sin to our hearts content and ONLY need to keep two commandments, thus negating the entire New and Old Testament, and the scripture where Jesus came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill the Law.
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| Aug 8 @ 10:25 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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Jesus said that, of the old testament, only two rules applied. Love God and Love Your Neighbor As Much As Yourself.
I didn't see anywhere where Jesus said, "Except if you don't want to."
I'm reminded of the old joke. God comes down from Heaven, looks around the Earth, and mutters "What part of 'thou shalt not' did they not understand?" Jesus made it as simple as possible, and we're still having people who just don't get it...
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| Aug 8 @ 10:31 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,234
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Where is the scripture, please? (You do the work) 
Ahh, I see, so you can look at internet porn to your little heart's content and God approves, hmm?
I think not.
It's a convenient interpretation though isn't it? Unfortunately, when one experiences real salvation, one clearly knows this is not the case. I'll wait until you find that scripture because I disagree with you one thousand percent.
Edit: I gotta go for a little. I'll check back later. Sorry but life calls.
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| Aug 8 @ 10:35 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,523
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Matthew 22:36ff
But I guess Jesus didn't know what he was talking about...?
Love is never wrong. Even if it's two men.
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| Aug 8 @ 10:49 PM |
Jesus on Homosexuality |
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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Well, Sl....you've yet to show me In Jesus' words where he calls homosexuality an abomination....
THAT was the challenge. Not letters Paul wrote, and not Mosiac Law.
Fact is, Jesus NEVER said Homosexuality was an abomination.
Try again, though. It's entertaining to actually WATCH a Christian pick and choose which laws pply and which ones do not.
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