| Aug 27 @ 12:22 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Here's an interesting story that clarifies how people can be changed by the word of God. If you don't mind elaborating, can you tell us how the Bible has rung true for you in your life? How do you personally know that the Bible is really God's word? What are your experiences with it?
This week's promise: God will help you understand his Word
Is the Bible really God's Word?
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives.
2 Timothy 3:16 NLT
The Word Transforms
Dr. E. V. Rieu was a classical scholar and translator for many years. He rendered Homer into very modern English for the Penguin Classics. Rieu was 60 years old and a lifelong agnostic when the same firm invited him to translate the Gospels. His son remarked: "It will be interesting to see what Father makes of the four Gospels. It will be even more interesting to see what the four Gospels make of Father."
The answer was soon forthcoming. A year later, Rieu, convinced and converted, joined the Church of England.
In an interview with J. B. Phillips, Rieu confessed that he had undertaken the task of translation because of an "intense desire to satisfy himself as to the authenticity and spiritual content of the Gospels." He was determined to approach the documents as if they were newly discovered Greek manuscripts. "Did you not get the feeling," asked Canon Phillips, "that the whole material was extraordinarily alive?" The classical scholar agreed. "I got the deepest feeling," he replied. "My work changed me. I came to the conclusion that these words bear the seal of the Son of Man and God."
From J. B. Phillips, The Ring of Truth. quoted by R. Kent Hughes in 1001Great Stories and Quotes (Tyndale House) pp 28-29
Content is derived from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation and other publications of Tyndale Publishing House
http://the-present-truth.blogspot.com/
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| Aug 27 @ 12:35 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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cannot you see where this is .....
...why some people are turned off of the english bible ( myself included here...) being god's word...?? by the time ..some man rewrites it.. it can mean something totally different...
E. V. Rieu
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Emile Victor Rieu (born 10 February 1887 in London[1], died 11 May 1972 in London) was a publisher, best known for his lucid translations of Homer, as editor of Penguin Classics, and for a modern translation of the four Gospels which evolved from his role as editor of a projected (but aborted) Penguin translation of the Bible. His translation of the Odyssey, 1946, was the opener of the Penguin Classics, a series that he founded with Sir Allen Lane and edited from 1944 to 1964. According to his son, "[h]is vision was to make available to the ordinary reader, in good modern English, the great classics of every language."[2]
The inspiration for the series, initially faint, came early into World War II , while bombs were falling on London. Each night after supper, Rieu would sit his wife and daughters down in the drawing-room and translate passages from a copy of the Odyssey on his lap. His subsequent rendering of that volume would come to be recognized as a classic itself, celebrated for its smoothness and un-translation-like prose.
Often, though, he embroidered Homer's verse. Whereas the direct translation would read, for example, "As soon as Dawn appeared, fresh and rosy-fingered", Rieu's version offered "No sooner had the tender Dawn shown her roses in the East". He also employed a number of inappropriate contemporaneities, like "the meeting adjourned", "I could fancy him" and "It's the kind of thing that gives a girl a good name in town". He either discarded Homer's anonymous immortals ("a god put this into my mind" becoming "it occurred to me") and formulae: "thoughtful Telemachus replied" becomes "Telemachus replied thoughtfully". Rieu also had a habit of rendering the Ancient Greeks more courteous than they really were, "Kindly" and "Be good enough to" preceding myriad orders. His son amended many of these foibles.[3]
By the time of Rieu's retirement as general editor of the Penguin Classics series, he had overseen the publication of approximately 160 books. He assiduously tracked down all the scholars and translators he wanted for each....
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| Aug 27 @ 10:34 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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cannot you see where this is .....
...why some people are turned off of the english bible ( myself included here...) being god's word...?? by the time ..some man rewrites it.. it can mean something totally different...
Well, that's interesting but that's not the point. The point is that the man, through his research, determined to convert to believing in Christ, to becoming a Christian. He returned to the church. He obviously thought enough of what he had involved himself in that it powerfully impacted his life and he turned to Christ Jesus.
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| Aug 27 @ 10:37 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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well yeah..as he translated... edited the bible to the way he saw the words on paper...
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| Aug 27 @ 11:38 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Why did what he was doing change him? Why did he go from being agnostic to embracing what he formerly couldn't believe in?
Once he began studying the words of Jesus Christ, he changed. He experienced for himself what we've all attested to, what anyone who sincerely, with a completely open heart, experiences when reaching out for God or His son, Jesus Christ. Something changed for this man enough to make him convert.
For me, it wasn't the Bible persey, it was the presence of God Himself in my life from the time I was a small child experiencing unimaginable horrors. This continued and I felt Him with me during the whole awful time. As I grew older I became aware that He had a name, that He was God and that He had a son who had died for my sins, Jesus Christ. I then turned to Him with new knowledge about who He was and I experienced salvation -- eventually I moved away somewhat, "backsliding" to a degree.
Well, I'm back -- as strong as ever, and I'm glad I'm able to come back! And He's still with me, because He never did leave me, not even for a moment. I left Him. But He took me back and I'll never, ever leave Him again. And no jeering, sneering, or any amount of mockery, dislike, or real persecution will make me regret my decision to return once and for all to the God who loves me, and to His son, who saved me, who has forgiven me for the wrongs I've done in my life.
I know that the Bible is God's word because I feel His love when I read it, when I hear it, when Pastor Don writes here for us, or Angel, or Servant, or Jankia, or Mr Paul, or when Seal speaks it. I feel its power and potency and its certainty that this is no lie. The word of God is real and its convincing for those whose heart wants to know God on HIS TERMS, not their own.
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| Aug 27 @ 11:50 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
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SL... 
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| Aug 28 @ 12:04 AM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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iam01
Posts: 6,265
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Psychological trauma is a very common cause for hyper-religiosity. Its the same reason why little children who are traumatized withdrawal from the world and create their own fantasy world. For adults, religion is a common and shared fantasy world. So is the Bible God's word? In a fantasy, anything can be real.
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| Aug 28 @ 7:50 AM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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eyesofastranger
Posts: 922
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Translation is not an exact science. I have learned to translate Chinese but I can tell you I absolutely do not understand the language slang and metaphor.
A good example is a visit to MacDonalds in Beijing. Chicken Mc nuggets. Wheat and fried exquisite fighting cock. Now that's the literal translation. The cultural translation is delicious breaded chicken. And this is a translation from the same time period and cultural understanding. Now add a few thousand years and not one iota of cultural understanding and what ya got?
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| Aug 28 @ 10:20 AM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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a book that should help the people who read it..plug their own problems and issues of the day into it.. and then come to a solution that works for them..
sort of an impromptu guide book to the mystery of...what is good...
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| Aug 28 @ 10:33 AM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,235
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Yes Eyes and if we consider how many languages the bible has been translated into, what it contained originally is not what we have today.
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| Aug 28 @ 12:10 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,602
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All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives.
2 Timothy 3:16 NLT
Different strokes.....
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)
Would you refuse your child medical help and call in your minister to pray over him or her instead? Did it help Constantine, with his deathbed baptism? Do you believe that he went to heaven after a lifetime of evil, and deliberately postponing his baptism until he was dying so he could be forgiven all his sins committed in the meantime, including the murder of his own children? Personally I think anyone whose child dies by obeying this particular biblical instruction is also the murderer of his or her child.
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| Aug 28 @ 12:56 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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sort of reinforces my point.. nowhere does it say to not seek medical attention for the sick person.. but instead it is trying to save the soul..( imho..) of the person who....was dying....at the time this was translated? written...
back then..medical treatments were just as apt to kill the patient as doing nothing...
it's all a matter of the time line....and perspective...
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| Aug 28 @ 1:06 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,602
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I repeat...this is what it says:
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives.
2 Timothy 3:16 NLT
Nothing is said about timelines - last I heard, the word of God was spoken of as eternal. If those words of instruction are indeed intended to override 'what is wrong in our lives', how do you see that as saying that a parent is also instructed to provide whatever medical help might be available as well as prayer? Given what the verse said, medical intervention shouldn't be necessary, so if that's true, why WOULD they call a doctor?
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| Aug 28 @ 1:09 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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 ... and just who wrote/translated/edited.... vvv this vvvv???
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives.
2 Timothy 3:16 NLT
and..
Given what the verse said, medical intervention shouldn't be necessary, so if that's true, why WOULD they call a doctor?
back then..imho..all doctors were...Quacks.... 
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| Aug 28 @ 2:54 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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Bj864
Posts: 3,958
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We do have to remember that the Bible and other religious books were written by men (and a few women).
These humans decided what was inspired by God and what wasn't.
Since humans are fallible, we must know that they allowed their own beliefs and prejudices to come into play.
I believe that all the religious books have something to offer people in their search for God. I also believe people will be drawn to the ones that have something to offer them at the stage they are at in their search.
In the end, it is not the books, but what is within ourselves. The books can only assist us in God realization. They are not God.
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| Aug 28 @ 6:44 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Hey BJ.. I love your particular brand of spirituality. You're very calming..
Now in the case of Christianity, the Bible actually is referred to as the Word of God and in the Bible, the word IS the Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps this is why Christians are so adament about its believability. Please take a look at the following scripture and the following c and p, which reiterate that Jesus Christ is the living Word of God.
John 1:1 (King James Version)
John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Living Word is Jesus Christ
"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." (Revelation 19:13)
This uniquely expressive name assigned to Christ, as He returns to earth in glory, is used also by John in his gospel (John 1:1, 14) and in his epistle (1 John 1:1), referring both to His primeval work of creation and also to His human incarnation. It is well known that "Word" here is the Greek logos. Six times it is applied by John as a name or title of the Son of God (three times in John 1:1), the second person of the Trinity. Actually, John used it seven times, assuming that the disputed verse, 1 John 5:7 ("the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost"), is really a part of the inspired text.
The Greek word logos is a remarkable word, adaptable to many meanings. It is translated in the King James New Testament by about 30 other words ("speech," "saying," "reason," etc.). The lexicons add still other meanings, and some of the Greek philosophers used it to describe the intelligence behind the universe.
As used by John, it becomes much more specific: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). The Jehovah’s Witnesses, rejecting the deity of Christ, like to translate this as "the Word was a god," but all knowledgeable Greek scholars agree that the King James rendering is correct.
Then, says John, "the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us . . . full of grace and truth" (John 1:14). Even though "No man hath seen God at any time" (John 1:18), He has become knowable through His Son who has "declared him." Consequently, John also can declare Him to others. "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes . . . and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; . . . That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us" (1 John 1:1, 3).
http://codybateman.org/2008/02/26/the-living-word-is-jesus-christ/
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| Aug 28 @ 7:33 PM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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the word.... is not all the words in the bible...
( this is the topic...right? )
The Living Word is Jesus Christ
"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." (Revelation 19:13)
imho.. this is codespeak and has done more harm than anything.. think...the last word on God...
This uniquely expressive name assigned to Christ, as He returns to earth in glory, is used also by John in his gospel (John 1:1, 14) and in his epistle (1 John 1:1), referring both to His primeval work of creation and also to His human incarnation. It is well known that "Word" here is the Greek logos. Six times it is applied by John as a name or title of the Son of God (three times in John 1:1), the second person of the Trinity. Actually, John used it seven times, assuming that the disputed verse, 1 John 5:7 ("the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost"), is really a part of the inspired text.
The Greek word logos is a remarkable word, adaptable to many meanings. It is translated in the King James New Testament by about 30 other words ("speech," "saying," "reason," etc.). The lexicons add still other meanings, and some of the Greek philosophers used it to describe the intelligence behind the universe.
bingo.. back to what I believe to be true.. translations...suck...
and the bible is just words..
About God and Jesus and the holy spirit....
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| Aug 29 @ 12:20 AM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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pastordon
Posts: 624
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Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)
Would you refuse your child medical help and call in your minister to pray over him or her instead? Did it help Constantine, with his deathbed baptism? Do you believe that he went to heaven after a lifetime of evil, and deliberately postponing his baptism until he was dying so he could be forgiven all his sins committed in the meantime, including the murder of his own children? Personally I think anyone whose child dies by obeying this particular biblical instruction is also the murderer of his or her child.
Heaven, James is not implying that we shouldn't seek medical attention or that there's not a place for physicians. As a matter of fact, Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts was himself a "beloved physician" (Col.4:14). It's kind of like Jesus saying we are to pray for God to give us "our daily bread" (Matt.6:12)--but through Paul, He also tells us to "work with (our) hands" (I Thes.4:11) so we can obtain the bread He provides.
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| Aug 29 @ 12:53 AM |
Is the Bible really God's word?
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pastordon
Posts: 624
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...why some people are turned off of the english bible ( myself included here...) being god's word...?? by the time ..some man rewrites it.. it can mean something totally different...
Gallows, what do you mean by "some man rewrites it"?
Many have questioned the accuracy of the NT today because they say it's been translated into so many different languages. It's like they see each translation as being based off an earlier translation, which was based on an earlier translation, which was based on an earlier translation, etc. etc. So, over a couple of thousand years, Bibles don't even closely resemble what they were in the first century (kind of like the classic gossip game, where you whisper something into a person's ear, then have them pass it on through 50 others, so that by the time the last person in the line hears it, it's nothing akin to what was originally said).
But this is very misinformed thinking of how we get translations. Actually, each translation is based off a Greek text (and the NT was originally written in Greek)--a text based on a vast array of early manuscripts of NT books, dating as early as A.D. 150--just 50 years after the last NT book was written. In fact, textual scholars have been able access over 5,000 early copies of NT books or parts of books, along with 9,000 early translations, plus volumes of quotations of NT books from early Christians, dating back to A.D.110 (one scholar, J.H. Greenlee, in fact said that textual scholars could practically reconstruct the entire NT from these quotations alone!). The first Greek text, based on early manuscripts, was written by Jerome in A.D.400, which then was the basis for his translation into Latin (called the Vulgate). Then, around 1500, an outstanding Greek scholar, Erasmus, put together another Greek text also based on early manuscripts; it served as the basis for New Testaments translated into German and English by the Reformers--which included the King James Version. Then, in 1881, a Greek text came out by Westcott and Hort, after even earlier Greek manuscripts of the NT had been discovered.
Yet, no substantial differences exist among these Greek texts--certainly no differences in doctrine from one to another.
In fact, no ancient writings even come close to having the amount of early textual support as the Bible does--this includes the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Sophocles, and Herodotus.
If we can have even a bit of confidence that we today have the original message of these other writers, then we should have much more confidence that we have the message of the Bible.
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| Aug 29 @ 1:06 AM |
Is the Bible really God's word? |
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pastordon
Posts: 624
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Translation is not an exact science. I have learned to translate Chinese but I can tell you I absolutely do not understand the language slang and metaphor.
A good example is a visit to MacDonalds in Beijing. Chicken Mc nuggets. Wheat and fried exquisite fighting cock. Now that's the literal translation. The cultural translation is delicious breaded chicken. And this is a translation from the same time period and cultural understanding. Now add a few thousand years and not one iota of cultural understanding and what ya got?
By God's providence, the New Testament writings were originally written in koine ("common") Greek--a language that was commonly spoken throughout the Roman Empire at that time. And Greek scholars have access to tons of literary works and writings contemporary with the New Testament writings. If you want to see something of the kinds of contemporary writings Greek scholars have access to, consult Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (you can google it up, or at least info about it). And so, they are able to study and come to an understanding of the idioms of that day.
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