| Sep 5 @ 10:27 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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cosmicdebris62
Posts: 14
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Simple question really -- 'do aborted fetuses go to heaven?'
If they don't go to heaven, then doesn't that make god a Meany? And if they do go to heaven, then what's all the fuss about? I mean, at least they escaped all the hate, strife, and pity that the religious right breeds.
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| Sep 5 @ 10:39 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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cosmicdebris62
Posts: 14
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Oh, I forgot to add this really cool tune from Jello Biafra. ... enjoy.
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| Sep 5 @ 11:10 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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Their souls will go to heaven cosmic and sorry I cant hear your tunes...my speakers are most likely hanging around the unemployment office because they havent worked in quite some time.
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| Sep 6 @ 1:30 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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cosmicdebris62
Posts: 14
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Well, let me just say: I understand the distinctions between traducianism, creationism, and infusionism -- in terms of when the foul-old-soul enters us -- but I'm not thinking altruistically here.
I'm thinking more in terms of not having a child of my own, and given the fact that I was born without a soul -- and more or less conjured up from a Ouija board; thus destined to be a foot soldier for the Antichrist -- that it would be nice to have a young'n in the hereafter; whether that be a soul or a decomposed body is of no concern to me, for I am almost certain I will be in hell ... know what I mean?
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| Sep 6 @ 7:49 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,015
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I am almost certain I will be in hell ... know what I mean? Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I'll be there too and so will every other human being and other animal who dies. You see, hell is simply the grave and we all go to the grave when we die. We may be burned, buried, eaten by animals, ground up, drowned etc. but we still eventully land in the ground.
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| Sep 6 @ 9:15 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,236
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We simply are recycled given enough time even radiation decays! 
Souls, spirits, Chi unknown energy the hichiker within out temporal animal forms. If all things are one and connected is it not our Chi that is connected.
A fetus itself does not arise to the heavens it is but ones Chi which is ageless and immortal that arises. 
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| Sep 6 @ 12:34 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I'll be there too and so will every other human being and other animal who dies. You see, hell is simply the grave and we all go to the grave when we die. We may be burned, buried, eaten by animals, ground up, drowned etc. but we still eventully land in the ground
If the OP was referring to an aborted fetus going to heaven your right Deb,everything that dies has a corpse.
Its not your corpse that goes to heaven..its your soul.
This brings up the topic of faith again.As a Christian I can say I have faith through my mind and my heart but that wont get my soul into heaven.
Its the third vital aspect of faith it takes to enter the kingdom of heaven.
That would be acting upon that faith by using it through work for all of Gods creation.
An aborted fetus is a corpse that has a soul and that soul is rewarded heaven so that it still has an opportunity to work for all of Gods creation.
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| Sep 6 @ 1:55 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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bunnybiz
Posts: 4,758
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Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I'll be there too and so will every other human being and other animal who dies. You see, hell is simply the grave and we all go to the grave when we die. We may be burned, buried, eaten by animals, ground up, drowned etc. but we still eventully land in the ground.
Deb right because we are a living soul (being). When we die we are dead souls that go to hell (grave). No one is in heaven until the change. Spirit goes back to the Creator (Love).
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| Sep 6 @ 4:46 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,015
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Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
This is right straight from the KJV, Jankia. And it clearly states that the soul that sins shall die. If you do a word search on soul you'll find the soul dies, it doesn't float up to God at deah.....body and soul are tied together and one can't live without the other. This immortal sould BS is just that....BS. Hey Bunny, I think it was Rays writings where I first learned about this, or at least it was confirmed by Ray.
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| Sep 6 @ 4:58 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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This is right straight from the KJV, Jankia. And it clearly states that the soul that sins shall die. OK,I'll buy that but how the soul of an aborted fetus became one that sinned is beyond me.
body and soul are tied together and one can't live without the other. And you know this how? You have an explanation for out of body expieriences that have been proven?
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| Sep 6 @ 5:59 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,195
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When reading the "Whole Chapter", then we can understand who the LORD GOD was speaking to and what he fully was speaking about...
1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
15 That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,
16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
(Also read Jeromiah 31)
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| Sep 7 @ 7:33 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,015
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OK,I'll buy that but how the soul of an aborted fetus became one that sinned is beyond me. So, since, according to Exe.18 it's the soul that sins that dies, then babies don't have souls because they don't sin and they do die? You know, the Original Sin Doctrine clears this up rather nicely. (BTW, do a word search on soul for yourself and you'll find animals have souls too.)
And you know this how? You have an explanation for out of body expieriences that have been proven? And you, Jankia,do you have an "explanations for out of body expierences that has been proven?" No, I don't, but then I don't have an explanation for invisible flying teapots, lepruchans, ghosts, etc. That is, if you want to believe in such rubbish.
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| Sep 7 @ 9:09 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,236
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There are no out of body experiences as all experiences are from within mind. Unless of course you remove your brain then I would call that an out of body experience but then you would not be here typing such rubbish 
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| Sep 7 @ 9:48 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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And you, Jankia,do you have an "explanations for out of body expierences that has been proven?" No, I don't, but then I don't have an explanation for invisible flying teapots, lepruchans, ghosts, etc. That is, if you want to believe in such rubbish.
I didnt think so but bringing up flying teapots and lepruchans was real intelligent wasnt it? Kind of like something the laughing old man that posted after you would say.
Better give up both of your infatuations with iamahammertime,pick up a few books and do some research on the spiritual journeys of the Aboriginal and the Native American cultures.
I havent any explanation either but I'm not the one that said...body and soul are tied together and one can't live without the other. like you were an expert on the matter.
If your going to make such a claim prove it with fact...not with flying teapots.
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| Sep 7 @ 10:02 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,015
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If your going to make such a claim prove it with fact...not with flying teapots. With scientific facts or "bible facts?" I don't believe the bible and I don't believe in god, Jankia. I was only using the bible to prove that it doesn't say man has an immortal soul, that's all. Why don't you do your own word study on soul, Junkia and prove me wrong?
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| Sep 7 @ 10:59 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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Use any facts you like for someone that makes a claim that comes from the Bible and they don't believe the bible its almost as funny as your changing my username because you havent anything better to debate with then flying teapots.
Why don't you do your own word study on soul, Junkia and prove me wrong? If you do a word search on soul you'll find the soul dies, it doesn't float up to God at deah.....body and soul are tied together and one can't live without the other Since you asked that question twice and even though you couldnt do it repectfully I will respectfully oblidge.
soul
–noun 1. the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.
2. the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come: arguing the immortality of the soul.
3. the disembodied spirit of a deceased person
Wow...on the first search engine try.
Better go back to your flying teapot problem Deb. 
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| Sep 7 @ 11:46 AM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,195
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There are no out of body experiences as all experiences are from within mind. Unless of course you remove your brain then I would call that an out of body experience but then you would not be here typing such rubbish
Yash, you seem to take this all in a comical relief, but in reality one in 150,000 births are Anencephalic. Stephanie Keene, which she was also titled as "Baby K", lived 2 1/2 years and the longest living infant with Anencephaly. Her death occured due to heart failure. Theresa Ann Campo Pearson also known as 'Baby Grace" lived nine days and died of respiratory failure.
State laws (The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, The Rehabilitation Act of 1973, The Americans with Disabilities Act, The Child Abuse Amendments of 1984 and states Medicine Malpractice Acts) do protect Anencephalic infants to "the right to life" and the infant is not declared brain dead and it's organs can not be donated until the infant has fully stopped breathing and declared legally dead. These laws also protect the Anencephalics to receiving adaquate medical care until mortal life is suspended.
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| Sep 7 @ 2:32 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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bunnybiz
Posts: 4,758
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body and soul are tied together and one can't live without the other.
And you know this how? You have an explanation for out of body expieriences that have been proven?
Sorry, Deb I missed out on some of this. The soul is mortal. And I know by word of God using KJV.
Genesis 2:7 (King James Version)
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.H5315 .
H5315
????
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Now this is the King James definition of soul. When the spirit of God was breathed into man (human), man became a living soul. (mortal). soul + spirit = living being. Now the definition in the New Testament by Strongs contradicts because he states in the OT definition the soul is mortal but NT (with Greek influence) the soul is immortal. It can't be both. Greek influenced many things by the time NT was written. But no where in the whole bible is there the word immortal soul. I have searched. I don't know what outer body experiences are probably your mind playing tricks on you. Believing in immortal soul is unscriptutal. And why are you using the internet for a definition? I thought you believed the bible. Aborted fetuses go to the grave (hell) waiting the change.
No one is in heaven and I have two witness (scriptures) so the others must mean something else.
Acts 2:29. 34 (King James Version)
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
John 3:13: "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."
this is after the resurrection. Don't you believe the scriptures? I know you don't like this because it blows away your torture chamber of fable hell and your belief that others are go to heaven floating around.
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| Sep 7 @ 3:15 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,195
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I do like how Paul explained it all in 1Corinthians, chapter 15: (NIV)
The Resurrection of Christ
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
The Resurrection of the Dead
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die.”
33Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.
The Resurrection Body
35But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
Continuing...
[Edited on 9/7/2009 3:22 PM]
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| Sep 7 @ 3:15 PM |
Do aborted fetuses go to heaven? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,195
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50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
[Edited on 9/7/2009 3:23 PM]
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