| Sep 6 @ 11:05 AM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,857
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Why do we have problems determining "Legal Insanity" when religious beliefs are involved?
Here is a case where even the professional mental health professionals involved seem to be "out of their minds".
Death Opens Doors on Group
Ministry Members Charged in Baltimore After Baby's Body Is Found
By Dan Morse
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 29, 2009
Members of One Mind Ministries drew little notice in the working-class Baltimore neighborhood where they lived in a nondescript brick rowhouse.
But inside, prosecutors say, horrors were unfolding: Answering to a leader called Queen Antoinette, they denied a 16-month-old boy food and water because he did not say "Amen" at mealtimes. After he died, they prayed over his body for days, expecting a resurrection, then packed it into a suitcase with mothballs. They left it in a shed in Philadelphia, where it remained for a year before detectives found it last spring.
Tomorrow, five of the group's alleged members -- including the boy's mother, Ria Ramkissoon -- are scheduled to be tried in Baltimore on murder charges. Sources and Ramkissoon's mother said Ramkissoon, 22, has agreed to plead guilty to a lesser charge on one condition: The charges against her must be dropped if her son, Javon Thompson, is resurrected.
Psychiatrists who evaluated Ramkissoon at the request of a judge concluded that she was not criminally insane. Her attorney, Steven Silverman, said the doctors found that her beliefs were indistinguishable from religious beliefs, in part because they were shared by those around her.
"She wasn't delusional, because she was following a religion," Silverman said, describing the findings of the doctors' psychiatric evaluation.
At the time of Javon's death, thought to be in January 2007, One Mind numbered no more than a dozen adults and children. The group claimed to find authority for its beliefs in the Bible. New members surrendered cellphones and broke off contacts with friends and family, according to law enforcement officials and Silverman.
Silverman said he and prosecutors think Ramkissoon was brainwashed and should have been found not criminally responsible; prosecutors declined to comment. Although an inability to think critically can be a sign of brainwashing, experts said, the line between that and some religious beliefs can be difficult to discern.
"At times there can be an overlap between extreme religious conviction and delusion," said Robert Jay Lifton, a cult expert and psychiatrist who lectures at Harvard Medical School. "It's a difficult area for psychiatry and the legal system."
Ramkissoon's mother, Seeta Khadan-Newton, said she is concerned that Ramkissoon might remain in the thrall of One Mind and back out of the plea agreement at the last minute. "I'm so scared. I don't know what's going to come out of her mouth," Khadan-Newton said.
Under the agreement, Ramkissoon, known within the group as Princess Marie, would plead guilty to child abuse resulting in death and cooperate with prosecutors. The murder charge would be dropped, and prosecutors would recommend probation and treatment.
Ramkissoon was born into a Hindu family in Trinidad but embraced Christianity after she moved to Baltimore at age 7 to live with her mother, a nursing assistant, Khadan-Newton said. She participated in the Junior ROTC program at Northwestern High School and graduated with honors.
In 2005, she became pregnant by her boyfriend. By the time Javon was born, in September of that year, his father was in jail on a charge of attempted murder.
Ramkissoon enrolled in classes to be a pharmacy technician but found it difficult to leave her son with family members, relatives said.
According to Ramkissoon's relatives and law enforcement officials, a friend who was also a new mother told her about a "family" she lived with, about how she didn't have to work and could dedicate herself to raising her son. Ramkissoon paid a visit and soon decided not to return to her family's apartment.
"They promised her safety, a way away from everything," Ricky Ramkissoon said of his older sister. "She probably thought that that's what she needed."
In April 2006, Khadan-Newton tried to persuade her daughter to leave One Mind. Outside the rowhouse, she hugged Ramkissoon and begged her to come home, or at least to let her see Javon. Khadan-Newton said Ramkissoon just stood there, emotionless. "It was like she was a complete stranger," she said.
Ricky Ramkissoon said One Mind allowed him to visit his sister twice before he made clear he didn't want to join. He said he once saw Queen Antoinette blow marijuana smoke in Javon's face. Members of the group believe that marijuana "frees your soul," he said.
Queen Antoinette, 40, does not have an attorney, according to court records. Officially known by that name in the records, she is in jail and could not be reached for comment.
Continued
[Edited on 9/6/2009 11:11 AM]
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| Sep 6 @ 11:09 AM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,857
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According to charging documents, in December 2006, Javon stopped saying "Amen" at mealtimes. Queen Antoinette told members the boy had developed a demonic spirit and needed to be cleansed through fasting and by being denied water, law enforcement officials said.
Ramkissoon found it "unbearable" to watch but followed the instructions, the officials said. "In her mind, an apostle of God had ordered this," Silverman said.
Javon's skin turned dark and he stopped moving, according to charging documents. Ramkissoon tried to feed him, but his mouth would not open. She felt for a heartbeat but detected none.
The body was placed on a mattress in a back room, and Queen Antoinette told her followers that God would "raise Javon from the dead," according to the charging documents.
Javon's body remained there for at least a week, police said. Eventually, it was wrapped in a blanket and placed in a suitcase. Queen Antoinette burned the mattress and Javon's clothes, police said, and the room was washed down with bleach.
The group came to believe there had been no resurrection because someone among them was not a true believer, according to an attorney for one of the other defendants, Marcus Cobbs. With that person no longer part of the group, they headed north out of Baltimore with the suitcase, believing Javon could be raised at a future date, according to Cobbs's attorney, Maureen Rowland.
For a time, the remaining four adults and two children were homeless, wheeling the suitcase around with them on the streets of Philadelphia. In April 2007, an elderly man whom Queen Antoinette had met a dollar store agreed to keep their luggage in a locked shed while they continued on to New York.
Khadan-Newton found her daughter in Brooklyn in February 2008. She asked her about Javon. "He's gone, he's lost," Ramkissoon told her mother, according to the charging documents.
Khadan-Newton contacted police, and detectives found the suitcase two months later. Investigators approached Ramkissoon. She refused to say where her son was, but she assured them that he was alive. A DNA test, however, soon showed that she was the mother of the dead child, police said.
By late summer, Ramkissoon and the other defendants -- the five adults who prosecutors allege were living at the house when Javon died -- had been charged.
In December, Ricky Ramkissoon visited his sister in the Baltimore jail and found her to be "like a different person every five seconds."
At times, he said, she talked about games they played as children and teased him about his unusual gait. "Do you still walk like Big Bird?" she asked him.
But she lapsed again and again into the beliefs she absorbed as a member of One Mind. At one point, she told him, "Javon isn't dead."
Staff researcher Meg Smith contributed to this report.
What is your opinion about this case?
Why would the fact that "religious beliefs" are involved, would there be problems in determining "legal insanity"?
Peace
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| Sep 6 @ 11:19 AM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,857
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"She wasn't delusional, because she was following a religion," Silverman said, describing the findings of the doctors' psychiatric evaluation. Does this doctors' psychiatric evaluation make any sense to you?
If you follow a "religion" and are delusional, are you exempt from being found "insane"?
I feel strongly that there is something wrong with this line of thought. I wonder if the doctors involved are christian and trying to protect their own delusional dogma from being considered a mental illness.
Peace
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| Sep 6 @ 1:09 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,173
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More on Updates:
BALTIMORE — A former religious cult member who helped starve her son to death believes he will be resurrected, but legal experts say her extreme faith doesn't make her criminally insane. The mother made an extraordinary deal with prosecutors Monday that her guilty plea to child abuse resulting in death will be withdrawn if her 1-year-old son, Javon Thompson, comes back to life. Law experts and psychiatrists said there was no problem with the agreement because Ria Ramkissoon, 22, was mentally competent and freely entered into the deal, and extreme religious beliefs aren't deemed insane by law.
"To say that someone is crazy because they have beliefs is very difficult," said Dr. Jonas Rappeport, a retired forensic psychiatrist and the former chief medical officer for Baltimore Circuit Court. "If I believe that God wants me to starve my child, that gets close to the edge, but it's very questionable as to calling that an illness that would exonerate someone for a crime."
The boy died more than two years ago when cult members stopped feeding him because he refused to say "Amen" after a meal, according to a statement of facts. His body was hidden in a suitcase packed with mothballs and fabric softener sheets behind a home in Philadelphia for more than a year.
On Monday, Ramkissoon answered a series of questions from Baltimore Circuit Judge Timothy J. Doory about whether she understood what she was doing when she pleaded guilty. A court psychiatrist wrote she was both competent to stand trial and criminally responsible for her son's death.
David Gray, a law professor at the University of Maryland, said he had never heard of prosecutors making a promise they knew they wouldn't have to keep. But he couldn't envision a legal challenge to the plea deal.
The psychiatrist was right to find Ramkissoon competent despite her insistence on her son's resurrection, Gray said.
"There is a long-standing distinction in the criminal law between fanatical religious belief and hearing commands from God," he said. "If she just subscribes to extreme religious beliefs, then that's not insanity. That's a decision to violate the law."
The plea deal was a good one for Ramkissoon, who was initially charged with first-degree murder. She received a suspended 20-year sentence and only has to remain in custody until she testifies against four co-defendants who are charged with first-degree murder in her son's death. She could be out of prison in August, serving about a year behind bars.
"Ria will be out of jail in a matter of a couple months and will still benefit from psychiatric services, cult deprogramming and whatever other services would be beneficial to her," said her attorney Steven D. Silverman.
Prosecutors are eager to have her testify because their case against the other cult members is largely circumstantial.
The plea agreement also calls for Ramkissoon to meet with Rick Ross, who has studied cults for more than 25 years and counsels former cult members. Ross said cult members often take years to realize how they've been manipulated. They exhibit behavior that "seems crazy to us because we're outside the control of the group and the environment of the group," Ross said. "In reality, what we're actually seeing is an individual under undue influence." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/01/resurrected-child-and-ria_n_181900.html
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| Sep 6 @ 1:13 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,173
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Updates Continued:
August 18, 2009
Baltimore - A woman who pleaded guilty to starving her child to death while part of a cult will be released from jail her attorney said Tuesday.
Ria Ramkissoon, 22, will be enrolled in a counseling program on a farm in rural northeast Maryland, according to lawyers on both sides. The program, which has no fences or guards, was chosen for her by a city prosecutor who arranges alternative sentencing options.
"It's not a correctional facility. It's a place for her to get reacclimated. She'll be part of a community and have a job and responsibilities," said Steven D. Silverman, Ramkissoon's attorney. "She's very excited about the opportunity to do something positive."
Ramkissoon pleaded guilty in March to child abuse resulting in death. Authorities said she was part of a cult that denied food and water to 1-year-old Javon Thompson because the boy did not say "amen" after meals.
After the boy died, the cult leader, Queen Antoinette, told her followers to pray for his resurrection, according to police and prosecutors. The sect's members ultimately placed Javon's body in a suitcase and hid it behind a house in Philadelphia, where police found it in 2008, more than a year after his death, authorities said.
Mr. Silverman said that Ramkissoon was brainwashed by the cult and therefore not individually responsible for her son's death.
Ramkissoon's pleas agreement provides for a 20-year suspended sentence and five years of probation.
Ramkissoon has no previous criminal history.
The cult leader. Antoinette, 41 and other cult members Trevia Williams, 21; Marcus A. Cobbs, 22; and Steven L. Bynum, 43 - are scheduled for trial in October on charges including first-degree murder. http://www.rickross.com/reference/onemind/onemind28.html
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| Sep 6 @ 1:37 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,857
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The mother made an extraordinary deal with prosecutors Monday that her guilty plea to child abuse resulting in death will be withdrawn if her 1-year-old son, Javon Thompson, comes back to life. Law experts and psychiatrists said there was no problem with the agreement because Ria Ramkissoon, 22, was mentally competent and freely entered into the deal, and extreme religious beliefs aren't deemed insane by law. The prosecutors in this case are as insane as she is. To place a condition into an legal agreement such as resurrection is crazy and gives creedance to such a thing happening.
I think most christians (even most fundies) would consider this act to be criminal and condemn the actions of this religious group. The problem is that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all believe that the desert god literally commanded Abraham to murder his son as a test of his faith. The fact is that even though an angel stopped Abraham before he could carry out the deed, the desert god did praise and reward Abraham for taking the steps to carry out his request.
The foundation of all three desert god religions is based on this obvious story of attempted child abuse. That is why the doctors in this case are evading the fact that this woman’s religious beliefs drove her batshit crazy. If the doctors found this woman to be delusional the very basis of organized religions would be shaken to the core.
Many questions would arise.
Why is it that it is not delusional for desert god worshipers to believe that it was moral for Abraham to commit attempted murder because the desert god instructed him to do it, but it is delusional for this mother to murder her child because she believed that she was doing what the desert god asked?
Why is it not delusional to believe that a man/god brought dead people back to life and he himself beat death by rising from the dead, but it is delusional for this mother to believe that her desert god would resurrect her child?
Any religion, that teaches their religious myths must be taken literally and are divinely inspired by the desert god, is opening the door for criminal acts such as this to occur. What makes believing in a religion that teaches such dogma (just because it’s a popular belief) less delusional than the mother in this case?
If the doctors found this woman to be delusional, then everyone that claims to be jewish, christian, or muslim would have to be considered delusional.
Let’s face it ….. “religious conviction” and “delusion” are the same thing!
Peace
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| Sep 6 @ 1:48 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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MrPaul
Posts: 1,613
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If you follow a "religion" and are delusional, are you exempt from being found "insane"?
I feel strongly that there is something wrong with this line of thought  Let’s face it ….. “religious conviction” and “delusion” are the same thing!    Lets face it some people can easily be led astray by anyone  not just one certain group  . Look at Charlie Manson and is group.  You do the crime you should do the time NO EXCEPTIONS
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| Sep 6 @ 2:00 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,173
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Rick Ross has an excellent paper on Defining A Cult...
http://www.rickross.com/faq.html
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| Sep 6 @ 2:48 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,173
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Mom's plea deal includes 'resurrection clause'
March 31, 2009
CNN) -- A Maryland woman involved with a group described as a religious cult pleaded guilty in the starvation death of her son, but insisted that the charges be dropped when he is resurrected.
The condition was made a part of Ria Ramkissoon's plea agreement, officials said. She entered the plea Monday in Baltimore, Maryland, to a first-degree felony count of child abuse resulting in death, her attorney, Steven Silverman, said Tuesday.
Ramkissoon, a member of a group called One Mind Ministries, believes Javon Thompson, her year-old son, will rise again, and as part of her plea agreement, authorities agreed to the clause.
"She certainly recognizes that her omissions caused the death of her son," Silverman said. "To this day, she believes it was God's will and he will be resurrected and this will all take care of itself. She realizes if she's wrong, then everyone has to take responsibility ... and if she's wrong, then she's a failure as a mother and the worst thing imaginable has happened. I don't think that, mentally, she's ready to accept that."
Under the plea agreement, Ramkissoon, 22, must testify against four other One Mind Ministries members who are also facing charges, including first-degree murder, in Javon's death. At her sentencing, set for August, she will receive a 20-year sentence, which will be suspended except for the time she has already served behind bars, Silverman said. She must also undergo deprogramming and psychiatric counseling.
In court Monday, it was clarified that the "resurrection clause" would apply only in the case of Javon's actual resurrection -- not a perceived reincarnation, Silverman said.
"This has never come up in the history of American law, as far as I've seen," Silverman said, adding that the clause was "very important to her."
"On one level, she certainly is competent to stand trial, because she does recognize that as far as her legal entanglements are concerned, this is a grand-slam resolution for her," Silverman said. "On the other hand, she's still brainwashed, she's still delusional as far as the teachings and influence of this cult, and she certainly is going to benefit with professional help and deprogramming."
Ramkissoon and the others are accused of denying Javon food after the group's leader, a 40-year-old woman who goes by the name Queen Antoinette, decreed the boy was a demon since he refused to say "amen" after meals, Silverman said.
"Ria would cling to him every day and try to get him to say 'amen,' " Silverman said. Eventually, Queen Antoinette ordered that Ramkissoon be separated from the child, he said.
Javon is believed to have died in December 2006, court documents allege. Following his death, the group members put the boy's body in a back room, and "everyone was directed to come in and pray," according to the documents. "The Queen told everyone that 'God was going to raise Javon from the dead.' Javon remained in the room for an extended period of time (in excess of one week). The resurrection never took place."
Authorities believe the boy's body was then placed into a wheeled suitcase along with mothballs and fabric-softener sheets, documents said. Prosecutors allege Antoinette opened the suitcase periodically and sprayed its interior with Lysol to mask the decomposition odor.
The group then moved to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and befriended a man who agreed to take care of their luggage before they left, documents said. The body was found in April 2008, still inside the suitcase, in the man's storage shed.
All five One Mind Ministries members were set to stand trial Monday. The case against the others has been postponed, Silverman said, as Antoinette and another woman lack attorneys and must either obtain one or waive their right to counsel. Silverman added that Antoinette has suggested, though not said outright, that God is representing her.
Court documents say Ramkissoon joined One Mind Ministries after Javon's birth in 2005. Silverman described her as a petite, soft-spoken woman who rejected her family's Hindu religion, became a devout Christian and wanted to raise her son in that religion. "She didn't want to have to work or go to school. She just wanted to take care of her son, and they offered her all this," he said.
The group insisted she wear a uniform the colors of royalty: white, tan and blue; give up her cell phone; stop referring to her family members by name; and not leave her home on her own, among other things, he said. "They really isolated her, brainwashed her, and you see what happened."
Ramkissoon's mother, Seeta Khadan Newton, notified various agencies that her grandson was missing after she traveled to New York City in February 2008 to find her daughter, court documents said. Newton told authorities that when she spoke to Ramkissoon and asked about Javon, her daughter replied, "He's gone. He's lost," but gave no further information.
Silverman said he realized right away after consulting with Ramkissoon that he needed to communicate her story to the public and to prosecutors. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/31/cult.child.death/index.html
[Edited on 9/6/2009 3:05 PM]
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| Sep 6 @ 3:11 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,173
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"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
Where does anyone draw the line with any religious belief?
Shoko Asahara
a founder of the controversial Japanese new religious group Aum Shinrikyo (now known as Aleph). Asahara has been convicted of masterminding the 1995 Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway and several other crimes, and has been sentenced to death. His legal team appealed the sentence, but the appeal has been declined, and he is currently awaiting execution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoko_Asahara
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3504237.stm
[Edited on 9/6/2009 3:44 PM]
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| Sep 10 @ 10:52 AM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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This is why I think it's very dangerous for a society to give asylum to beliefs that espouse anything "supernatural". This is a legal pigf**ck and doesn't need to be. Very simply, dead children don't resurrect and anyone who believes they can is reality challenged and therefore has at least some foothold into delusional thinking. Whether or not they give completely into delusion is another matter, but being open to such insanity is........ sheer insanity.
Where the line is drawn is really immaterial in my opinion. A crime was committed, a child was uneccesarily and tragically allowed to die and furthermore, the body was disrespected and the situation was made more dangerous by allowing the body to sit as long as it did with the ridiculous belief that it will resurrect. The fact that the legal community is even hearing this woman's delusion about putting a legal caveat in her plea in the event the child resuurects is tantamount to someone committing murder, blaming the devil for their actions and actually having a judge take it seriously. It has potential to irresponsibly set a precedent.
Freedom to believe what you want ends where reality begins. No one has the right to allow a child to die for no good reason.
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| Sep 10 @ 11:04 AM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,235
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I have a real problem as to what constitutes Legal Insanity as by definition psychiatry is not a Science it is Art Form.
In many countries past and present people have to go to reeducation centers on the basis that their thinking is irrational. Here in America the courts are resisting a plea of insanity or even temporary insanity because it has been so abused by defense attorneys.
Like wise God made me do it is not accepted by the courts in defense of a persons actions.
I saw on the news in Mexico today a guy who hijacked an Airplane who is a minister that said God made him do it.  Religious delusions are not accepted as being insane, just because a persons thinking is influenced by religion does not make them insane just delusional
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| Sep 10 @ 2:44 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,857
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I saw on the news in Mexico today a guy who hijacked an Airplane who is a minister that said God made him do it. Religious delusions are not accepted as being insane, just because a persons thinking is influenced by religion does not make them insane just delusional I saw the same clip. The minister also predicted that Mexico will have a severe earth quake.
Exactly why is it that people who have delusions of the non-religious kind are considered mentally unstable, but the same delusion with the insertion of a religious belief is not?
Do you actually believe that religious delusions are not the result of a mental deficiency?
The only reason that mental health professionals exclude major religious dogmas from the definition of insane is the number of delusional christians and other religious followers. Imagine having to institutionalize or provide therapy for 80+% of American citizens. The remaining 20% would have to foot the bill for those that chose delusion over reality.
So they let it go and wait for these delusional people to break a law before taking steps to place them in therapy or if necessary institutions for their own protection.
Most delusional people are not a threat to others so why be concerned about their delusions?
What mental health professionals should do however is warn people of religious dogmas that either cause or promote delusional thinking.
Peace
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| Sep 10 @ 4:18 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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MrPaul
Posts: 1,613
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Sail still waiting for you to answer my post
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| Sep 10 @ 5:03 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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sail_dancer
Posts: 9,857
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Sail still waiting for you to answer my post Which post Paul?
Peace
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| Sep 10 @ 5:03 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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more lost souls in a cult society.
Religion is scary. That is why I do only solitary worship to the God of the universe.
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| Sep 10 @ 5:46 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,010
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Do you actually believe that religious delusions are not the result of a mental deficiency? Yes I do, Sail, but some religious delusions are more harmful than others. People who believe Jesus is God aren't likely to kill their neighbor but the guy who thinks Jesus told him to kill his neighbor is the threat. How to separate who's dangerous and who isn't would be almost impossible.
Any religion, that teaches their religious myths must be taken literally and are divinely inspired by the desert god, is opening the door for criminal acts such as this to occur. What makes believing in a religion that teaches such dogma (just because it’s a popular belief) less delusional than the mother in this case? Well religion, and Christianity in particular, seems to get a free pass on much of its ugly behavior. Look at the lavish lifestyles the televangelists live. No taxes, no worries just pass the plate and take in the dough. They aren't accountable to anybody for where or how the money is spent. Let a little business man try the same thing and he'd be in jail in no time. Let's start taxing religion and see how many of the leaders stick around when they have to live like the people they beg money from.
Where the line is drawn is really immaterial in my opinion. A crime was committed, a child was uneccesarily and tragically allowed to die and furthermore, the body was disrespected and the situation was made more dangerous by allowing the body to sit as long as it did with the ridiculous belief that it will resurrect. I agree with you on this one, Thor. Anyone who allows a child to die in such a gross manner should be neutered like the dogs they are. They should NEVER have contact with a child ever again. Rehabilitation? I wouldn't risk a child's life on it, would you?
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| Sep 10 @ 5:52 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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MrPaul
Posts: 1,613
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Look at the lavish lifestyles the televangelists live. No taxes Sorry Deb but WRONG televangelist do pay taxes look it up in the IRS tax code.... But it is a shame and in my opinion a crime against mankind for them to be living the lavish life style some of them do , and the same can be said about many of our elected officials 
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| Sep 10 @ 6:42 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line?
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,040
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Do you actually believe that religious delusions are not the result of a mental deficiency?
There are things that happen to spiritual people that cannot be explained by conventional means.
While this story is so incredibly sad, I don't think the mother was mentally ill nor do I think she had criminal intentions. She simply wanted to "believe" in something so badly that she let it take over her life.
This is where logic and critical thinking come in with any "belief". I'm sure that the mother knows in her heart of heart that a dead child cannot be resurrected, especially after a year, but she wants to believe it so badly that she thinks it will happen.
Taking anything to an extreme can only be damaging. 
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| Sep 10 @ 7:06 PM |
"Religious Belief" or "Legally Insane"? Where do we draw the line? |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,958
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Believing in a power higher than oneself it not delusional in my book. One only has to look at nature and the universe to know that something is at work that is greater than anything humans can understand.
As to this woman, there are radicals in all walks of life and religion is no exception. Sometimes the people are brainwashed from birth and know nothing else. However, when you break the law, you have to pay the price, no matter what religion you are in.
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