| Sep 17 @ 10:15 PM |
The Thinking Christian
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,438
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The devotional today from The Daily Bread for some reason reminded me of some things mentioned here not long ago.
"The Thinking Christian
David McCullough's biography of John Adams, one of America's founding father's and early presidents, describes him as "both a devout Christian and an independent thinker, and he saw no conflict in that." I am struck by that statement, for it carries a note of surprise, suggesting that Christians are somehow naive or unenlightened, and that the idea of a 'thinking Christian' is a contradiction.
Nothing could be further from the truth. One of the great benefits of salvation is that it causes the Believer's mind to be guarded by the peace of God (Philippians 4:7--'And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.', which can foster clear thinking, discernment, and wisdom. Paul described this in his second letter to Corinth when he wrote that in Christ we are equipped for 'casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.' (2Corinthians 10:5).
To sift through an argument wisely, to embrace the clarity of the knowledge of God, and to align our thinking with the mind of Christ are valuable skills when living in a world lacking in discernment. These skills enable us to use our minds to represent Christ. Every Christian should be a thinking Christian. Are you?--Bill Crowder
2Corinthians 10:1-11--"By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you--I, Paul, who am 'timid' when face to face with you, but 'bold' when away! 2--I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3--For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4--The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5--We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6--And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete. 7--You are looking only on the surface of things. If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as he. 8--For even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than pulling you down, I will not be ashamed of it. 9--I do not want to seem to be trying to frighten you with my letters. 10--For some say, 'His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing.' 11--Such people should realize that what we are in our letters when we are absent, we will be in our actions when we are present."
If you grasp the message of God's Word,
If you've learned to think things through,
Then you can defend the Christian faith
With wise words both clear and true.--Branon
Faith was never intended
as a substitute for intelligence."
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| Sep 17 @ 11:33 PM |
The Thinking Christian |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,194
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"Servant"...Nice information and great combination of John Adams and Paul. 
Thomas Jefferson was also a devoted Christian in the unitarian, for he attended local service often with his wife. He once decided to emphasize in the House and Senate his ways of thinking and the matter at the time, the proposals for the division of Church and State.
As he was a great thinker, he came up with an extraordinary idea; He took a bible with a pair of scissors, sat down and began to clip scriptures all through the NT. He then began to re-assemble them in out of order fasion and pasted them onto papers. When he was finished, he wrote John Adams a letter (1813) and told him about is creative project. When he was finished, he presented it to Congress, in turn they ordered the publishings of about 9,000 and distributed to members of the House and Senate. These pieces of paper later became the famous "Jefferson Bible".
"It is known to myself and my God alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life; if that has been honest and dutiful to society, the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one." ~ Thomas Jefferson ~
[Edited on 9/18/2009 12:04 AM]
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| Sep 17 @ 11:36 PM |
The Thinking Christian
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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Thanks SOC,I always enjoy the notes in a few different devotionals.
I like the fact that faith was never intended as a substitute for intelligence or knowledge because through faith we gain so much of both.
Ever notice how you seldom see people of faith asking what faith is?
Thats because of the knowledge gained in having it and having it is why its shared through fellowship. 
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| Sep 18 @ 12:21 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,217
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More than ever, Christians need to be thinking people. Personally, I think education is a valuable process for anyone to undertake but educated or not, the thinking Christian shows himself wise via the simplicity of the Biblical and the words contained within.
The Bible demonstrates a lifestyle that when followed, teaches men, women, and children how to think and act in the ways that are best for them. There are few issues that are not addressed by the Bible and few questions whose answers cannot be found there.
The thinking Christian is shrewd, cautious, and careful these days -- and he somehow manages to combine all of these things with a child-like faith in God and a love for his fellow man and woman, and in my opinion, this is true "thinking," and true wisdom in action.
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| Sep 18 @ 7:10 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,015
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Ever notice how you seldom see people of faith asking what faith is? Well, since it is a big part of your religion, and you christians use the word a lot, why don't you give us a definition of faith. The word faith is used over and over again in Hebrew 11 so please define the word. Maybe you could define religion also because defining the word religion is like nailing jello to the wall.
More than ever, Christians need to be thinking people. Personally, I think education is a valuable process for anyone to undertake but educated or not, the thinking Christian shows himself wise via the simplicity of the Biblical and the words contained within.
Do you thinking christians think the bible from Genesis to Revelation is Gods holy, inherrent, perfect word? If I start quoting from anywhere in the Bible can you make application of that word to your life? I can quote from a number of Bible verses and I bet noone would be able to apply them to their lives. In fact, they don't seem to apply to much of anything anymore. Have you ever seen the Jerry Springer show and the Reverand Schnorr? Well, he comes out drunk and he starts quoting scriptures to the people on stage and they have no relevance to what's being talked about. That's what I think about the Bible today. If there is any relevance in the Bible, we must do what it says and look for the pearls while in a pig pen. (Okay it didn't literally say that, but I'm trying to make a point.) My point being that there are words of wisdom in the Bible and there are some ways of living that lead to a bad death and the Bible warns us to stay away from them. Overeating or gluttony, alcoholism, sleeping around, lying, using false weights are examples of wisom in the Bible. But there are many other things in the Bible that are just as destructive as the sage advice offered in its many pages. Slavery, 2 weeks of uncleanness for menstration, murdering babies, stoning sabbath breakers are examples of ridiculous and harmful advice the Bible gives that make no sense.
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| Sep 18 @ 9:13 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,236
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4--The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5--We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6--And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete. 7--You are looking only on the surface of things. If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as he This is Christian thinking?
6--And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete So warlike, go figure
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| Sep 18 @ 9:51 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4--The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5--We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6--And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete. 7--You are looking only on the surface of things. If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as he. 8--For even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than pulling you down, I will not be ashamed of it. 9--I do not want to seem to be trying to frighten you with my letters. 10--For some say, 'His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing.' 11--Such people should realize that what we are in our letters when we are absent, we will be in our actions when we are present."
Basically this says to live in a world of non reality and to forcefully shove that non reality down the throats of the rest of the world. No wonder fundy Christians are such a pain in the butt. These are marching orders to be such.
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| Sep 18 @ 9:58 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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iam01
Posts: 6,275
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What kind of thinking could anyone do when it is their ambition to no longer gain or use knowledge, logic and reasoning in their life but instead seek to fill their minds with large amounts of blind faith?
That violates this statement and that means one is not thinking logically when making such statements and adhering to the above ambition. That actually means they have succeed in their ambition.
Faith was never intended as a substitute for intelligence.
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| Sep 18 @ 10:03 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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What kind of thinking could anyone do when it is their ambition to no longer gain or use knowledge, logic and reasoning in their life but instead seek to fill their minds with large amounts of blind faith?
And to further shove this down the throats of everyone. The marching orders given from the Apostle Paul as well as the Great Comission gives them carte blanche to do everything they can to get into your business. That's why as long as asylum is given to insanity and respected as religious belief, there will always be a hole open for them to worm their dogma into politics.
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| Sep 18 @ 10:15 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,438
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The words make sense to me. 
But I guess that's mainly because the Holy Spirit of God dwells within me. As He does with all those who have invited Him to dwell within them. AND have remained sensitive to understanding His voice.
But we have had examples over the years in this forum, of individuals who, at one time, may have been fairly solid Christians---with a good connection to hear and understand God's voice.
But they have fallen away from their faith. They have allowed other things to interfere with their relationship with Jesus Christ. And they no longer hear His voice clearly.
The sound is muffled by a poor connection.
Or it is jumbled up with a cacophony of many other unidentified "voices". These people, unfortunately, no longer hear the voice of God by Itself. They receive a tangled mass of information.
But if they get back into reading His word on a daily basis. And if they reach out to God on a daily basis. He will return to them.
As He has promised in Zechariah 1:3--"Therefore tell the people: This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'Return to me', declares the Lord Almighty, 'and I will return to you,' says the Lord Almighty."
Once invited to dwell within you, He will never leave you. But through neglect, you may have allowed your connection to Him become "rusty".
He is still there within you though. You have become one of His lost sheep.
But if you have never trusted Him as your Lord + Master. Then while His assistance is certainly still available to you. You will have first have to be baptized and invite Him to dwell within you.
Still a rather simple procedure.
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| Sep 18 @ 10:28 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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iam01
Posts: 6,275
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The words make sense to me. Having sense implies a logical or illogical thought process. Which one are you applying and how? Semantic precision does reveal a great deal and having a fragmented line of thinking would yield indicators for distortions in thinking. Whenever any kind of discourse on thinking is made, one must attempt an epistemology.
And they no longer hear His voice clearly. Not everyone has consistent hallucinations even for schizophrenics. Are yours frequent, infrequent or was just a single major event?
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| Sep 18 @ 10:34 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,438
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Hardly Thor. It doesn't say any such thing.
Actually, just the opposite. It is those who remain blind to the spiritual world, which is very real, who remain living in an incomplete reality.
It is the secular person who refuses to acknowledge the very-real presence of the spiritual world, (which is where Jesus Christ dwells), who lives in the world of non-reality.
Such people are unable to identify much less understand a very real dimension of reality.
So who truly are the fools?
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| Sep 18 @ 10:40 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,194
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Have you ever seen the Jerry Springer show and the Reverand Schnorr?
Are you aware that this Schnorr is an actor and the part is played by Brian Schnorr who actually is a director for "On-Air Promotions"? And the Springer show itself is called "trash TV talk show" and voted as the "worst" talk show?
You really believe this type of "entertainment" equals to a presidential address? Better yet...a deity??
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| Sep 18 @ 10:52 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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iam01
Posts: 6,275
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It is the secular person who refuses to acknowledge the very-real presence of the spiritual world, (which is where Jesus Christ dwells), who lives in the world of non-reality. The delusional and intellectually stunted superstitious person is incapable of refusing the garbage thats fed into them because their ambition is to no use knowledge, logic and reasoning in their life.
Such people are unable to identify much less understand a very real dimension of reality. If its real then there is evidence. A person's personal delusions and hallucinations only proves something is wrong with their brain and science has mountains of evidence from brain scans and studies of the parietal lobes and temporal lobes.
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| Sep 18 @ 10:53 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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So who truly are the fools?
People who believe stuff with no objective evidence and no good reason to believe.
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| Sep 18 @ 11:00 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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iam01
Posts: 6,275
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Let's restart and give SOC a fair chance....
First of all, nothing in the OP describes any sound methodology in thinking skills, i.e. critical thought, rationality, logic and reasoning.
Perhaps SOC can google some research on these things and get back to us. However, doing so would violate his own ambition to avoid knowledge, logic and reasoning. Perhaps a much better treatise can be made to substantiate the reasoning behind this but that presents a paradox of violating the use of logic and knowledge.
You see the problem? How can one make such a statement of that sort of ambition and then try to explain and debate what a thinking Christian is about?
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| Sep 18 @ 11:21 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,438
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I am still learning more about Christianity iam. I was not born with a complete understanding of Jesus Christ. Nor do I understand the Bible completely.
While I would still truly live totally by faith, I realize that I will probably never reach such an ambition.
But I will continue loving Jesus Christ. I will continue to display my love by my kindness to others. And I will continue leaving myself open to learning more about Him, and more about the world.
My education is not yet complete.
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| Sep 18 @ 11:30 AM |
The Thinking Christian |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,015
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Are you aware that this Schnorr is an actor and the part is played by Brian Schnorr who actually is a director for "On-Air Promotions"? And the Springer show itself is called "trash TV talk show" and voted as the "worst" talk show? Of course I'm aware of that, Angel. But, he's a good actor and makes a good point about the hypocrisy of so many who are pastors. The whole show is a spoof, a joke, an attempt to show how stupid human beings can be at times. I mean, you really haven't met anyone like those on the Springer show? Drunks, homosexuals, liars, cheats, adulterers. You don't know anyone like that Angel? Well they are on Jerry's show if you've missed them in your real life. Ever read the Scarlet Letter? Reverand Dimmesdale got Hester Prynne pregent and did nothing to protect her from the towns banishment. She lived a life of loneliness and persecution because of her "sin." I loved the book and although it isn't literally true, it is true in the sense that people were incredibly cruel to fornicators in that dark time period.
You really believe this type of "entertainment" equals to a presidential address? Better yet...a deity?? Who said I did? BTW, what has Obama said that's worth listening to anyway? Listen to a deity? Which one do you listen to Angel? Or do you listen to them all and have a channel selector that works like a radio and you can "tune into" whichever deity it is you want to hear?
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| Sep 18 @ 11:43 AM |
The Thinking Christian
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iam01
Posts: 6,275
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My education is not yet complete No education can be gained when knowledge is not your ambition. Not only that but you consciously avoid it. After all you did state this.
It is my ambition to no longer need to employ either knowledge or logic in my life.
Again, to state your education is not yet complete logically implies you need an education and yet have stated many times you have no need for knowledge is contradictory. Its illogical and totally in line with no longer needing logic. It does explain the irrational and illogical statements you make so often. If you can't see that its because you have been indulged for far too long in superstitious beliefs and behaviors thats left you so hypnotized that its hard to tell reality from fantasy.
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| Sep 18 @ 12:57 PM |
The Thinking Christian |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,438
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Once you have reached a conclusion about something iam, do you switch-off the part of your brain that you use to arrive at new-er conclusions?
Did you miss the part where I made the admission that I have since learned more things? Things which prove my previous conclusion to be false?
How sad it is for anyone to stop learning. Most especially when part of the information they presently have acquired is faulty, and when that information deals directly with the everyday operation of their lives.
"I am still learning more about Christianity iam."
"My education is not yet complete."
So while it pains me to say this, (I have grown quite accustomed to your childish rants), I was partially mistaken before. I don't think it would be possible for me to live by faith alone.
Although I still do maintain that such a thing is certainly theoretical. Living by faith doesn't seem to be easy though.
And debating such a side certainly places one in an indefensible position. 
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