| Sep 22 @ 10:52 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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Iam, I answered this, didn't I? I said that I--along with the other Christians in this forum--am participating in this forum because I care about all you guys, even about you, Iam. Now, so far, the only way you have been able to respond to a statement like this is with abuse. In fact, every response you made below every quote from me is abusive towards me. Can you not see this? It's like, you have no ability to be even civil towards people you disagree with.
But worse, you seem driven to do this. It's like you have no control over yourself. You remind me of a catcher I had on my team when I coached Little League. He was an outstanding athlete, but whenever he became angry, he would just lose it--tossing gear and obscenities in every direction. And, of course, I'd have to bench him. Then he'd just sit on the bench with his head buried in his hands, hating himself for what he'd just done. I haven't seen any evidence that you have such regret for your abusiveness--but there's no question that you "lose it" just like he did.
And, you still haven't answered my question (abuse doesn't count for an answer). I'm not at all (as a couple of you thought) saying that you atheist guys should go somewhere else--I'm not trying to bump you off this thread or forum. I'm just wanting to know what your motivation is towards us Christians. I already told you what ours is towards you. We view you as "offspring of God" (Acts 17:27,28--any version of the Bible) who are spiritually alienated from Him--andso, out of love for the Lord and for you, we are trying to persuade you to turn to Him. On the other hand, you guys believe that we humans are all just collections of body systems that have evolved from an energy-activated chemical solution. And as such, we have no objective morals or ethics. Life is all about survival. And each of us has just as much right as the other to create our own morals--our own "should's" and "should not's." Right?
This being the case, why are you guys trying to impose your "should's" and "should not's" upon us? In fact, why do you feel so driven to do this in this forum? You obviously think you have some form of "truth" that you need to bind upon us, don't you? But if your view of life is that we are just evolved matter/energy, what difference does it make to you if we don't share your "truth"? By contrast, we Christians believe that the truth we are trying to persuade you guys with, is not from us, but from God, revealed in His Word. We believe it is objective, not subjective, truth. So, it makes total sense for us to try to turn you to it. But again, you don't believe in objective truth, do you? You don't believe there is some objective moral system that everyone should be subject to, do you? And yet, for some reason, you atheists in this forum feel strongly compelled to bind your "truth" upon us. Why?
In fact, Iam, even if we were crazy and psychotic as you keep accusing of being, so what? What is that to you? Why are you--with 5,000 abusive posts--so intent upon trying to "save" us? What drives you?
I will take a shot.
It is because there are so many people sporting the Christian banner that use religion to denounce other people.
Firstly, I am not saying anyone here is currently doing that, but we have had a few that did on a regular basis. If you are the victim of it, it makes your blood boil and you crave justice.
Many Christians, even if they don't join in, give silent approval by praising them indirectly or remaining silent. To my mind that is almost as bad. Christian people who stand by and say nothing when other "Christian" people are out of line, make the problem worse. Like it is some sort of big club, and right or wrong, Christians will protect their own.
The thing is, when you are treated badly many times by members of a particular group, you begin to despise the group itself.
I don't play that. I am a Christian. I believe that the Christ died for my sins. That does not mean carrying a label gives anyone a free pass to be a jerk. I have had my belly full of condescending, holier-than-thou type Christians.
Yeashua didn't play that either. He was not afraid to put arrogant religious leaders in their place. In the end, it helped put him on the cross.
If Yeashua could get nailed up on the cross, I think Christians have an obligation to speak out when someone claiming to be Christian is out of line.
Sure, it will make them mad, but after that, I suspect one of three things will happen. Either they'll shut up, they'll be so bullheaded that they will babble on forever until no one takes them seriously, or they'll take a little time to reevaluate.
I think the last option is best, but I will take any one of the three over letting them put stain the name of the religion.
That's the view from here.
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| Sep 22 @ 11:03 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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LANCE!!!!!
Where the hell have you been?
Good to see you, my friend....
I agree with you post
It is because there are so many people sporting the Christian banner that use religion to denounce other people.
Firstly, I am not saying anyone here is currently doing that, but we have had a few that did on a regular basis. If you are the victim of it, it makes your blood boil and you crave justice.
Many Christians, even if they don't join in, give silent approval by praising them indirectly or remaining silent. To my mind that is almost as bad. Christian people who stand by and say nothing when other "Christian" people are out of line, make the problem worse. Like it is some sort of big club, and right or wrong, Christians will protect their own.
Even if they're not directly :"sporting that banner" and denouncing others, they are doing so everytime they say "Jesus is the only way"....
IF there IS some sort of salvation, surely Jesus in NOT the only way. (Or millions of people who have never heard the name will burn in hell regardless of the lives they leadd)
By Pator Don saying:
I--along with the other Christians in this forum--am participating in this forum because I care about all you guys, even about you, Iam.
Is a condemnation upon the nonbeliever because of our nonbelief.
It doesn't matter if it's meant in a kind way. It's still an arrogant condemnation.
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| Sep 22 @ 11:03 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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willowy1
Posts: 9,199
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| Sep 22 @ 11:33 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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MrPaul
Posts: 1,635
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I--along with the other Christians in this forum--am participating in this forum because I care about all you guys, even about you, Iam. It doesn't matter if it's meant in a kind way. It's still an arrogant condemnation Since when is caring for someone else arrogant and wrong  Lots of people care  no matter what their belief or lack of belief
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| Sep 22 @ 11:45 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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Jankia
Posts: 11,907
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It is because there are so many people sporting the Christian banner that use religion to denounce other people.
Firstly, I am not saying anyone here is currently doing that, but we have had a few that did on a regular basis. If you are the victim of it, it makes your blood boil and you crave justice.
Many Christians, even if they don't join in, give silent approval by praising them indirectly or remaining silent
Your kind of sweeping with a shovel in your words LanceVarden because first you say "many" and then its a "few". 
Just what kind of justice are you looking for as a victim of someones elses put down of your beliefs?
Your being a Christian I would assume that would your craving for forgiveness right?
How does one give silent approval with indirect praise to somebody that denounces their faith in an internet forum?
If remaining silent shows a sign of approval does that mean if Iall the Christians,including yourself and everyone else that didnt say anything when another Christian showed signs of being a pedophile...they all approve of sexual child abuse?
Since when is caring for someone else arrogant and wrong When someones unaware of what kindness is besides it being an eight letter word?
[Edited on 9/22/2009 11:49 PM]
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| Sep 22 @ 11:45 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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By saying "Christians" in his post, he is eluding (Just as SOC does everytime he says "I know what awaits you") to our eternal demise, and that by his preaching to try to win converts, we wil be saved.
There are few who have not condemned the unbelievers on this site. You, Lance and Katt.
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| Sep 22 @ 11:49 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,200
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Is a condemnation upon the nonbeliever because of our nonbelief.
It doesn't matter if it's meant in a kind way. It's still an arrogant condemnation.
Caring about someone is a condemnation?? Since when?
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| Sep 22 @ 11:51 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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If remaining silent shows a sign of approval does that mean if Iall the Christians,including yourself and everyone else that didnt say anything when another Christian showed signs of being a pedophile...they all approve of sexual child abuse?
Lance wasn't here for the Anal fiasco.
You were the first to point out that as an issue, and I do commend you for it, however, I still shudder when I think of the others here that remarked how "intelligent" (cough) Anal was and one even went as far as to defend him. (Even saying that his poem was made in five minutes....which is funny, because if you googled it, you found it on five different forum sites...one being the Ex-Church of Christ page---he got kicked off there too)
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| Sep 22 @ 11:52 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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Caring about someone is a condemnation?? Since when
You should quote my whole post.
You know full well what that statement meant.....
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| Sep 22 @ 11:56 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,907
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There are few who have not condemned the unbelievers on this site. You, Lance and Katt. It would be interesting if you could show us the large number that have condemned unbelievers if only three havent.
This ought to be a real entertaining list of little. 
[Edited on 9/23/2009 12:10 AM]
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| Sep 22 @ 11:57 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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southernlass
Posts: 2,230
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Many Christians, even if they don't join in, give silent approval by praising them indirectly or remaining silent. To my mind that is almost as bad. Christian people who stand by and say nothing when other "Christian" people are out of line, make the problem worse. Like it is some sort of big club, and right or wrong, Christians will protect their own.
I can remember giving a little preaching session about this myself, Lance, from the Christian perspective regarding those who dislike Christians, who regularly offer deragatory commentary toward us and our beliefs. I didn't like the silent complicity whereby few stood up to call down one or more of their own in this very forum --
Basically what I was told regarding this by several here was that they were not responsible for other people's posting behaviors, and that such people were free to express their disagreeable opinions etc., because this is a public forum. To give you the short form, essentially I was told to just suck it up, blow it off, and get over it, oh and the old standby, "ignore, ignore, ignore."
When someone (who I doubt shall remain nameless) showed up who claimed Christianity but who certainly didn't express his Christianity in a way that most Christians do, this gentleman was called down subtly and in private it was suggested that he cease and desist. I did take note then that this wasn't good enough for some of the very same people who had clearly told me to suck it up when their team members insulted Christians.
It is interesting when one is on the receiving end of the "abuse" how this tends to alter one's perspective on this topic.
Now what would Jesus Christ do in this regard? THAT is an entirely different matter altogether of which I clearly understand; I'm just pointing out that I think the "holier-than-thou," silently complict perspective can be defensive in nature, or even simply the case of people figuring that everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it rankles others.
Even if they're not directly :"sporting that banner" and denouncing others, they are doing so everytime they say "Jesus is the only way"....
Christianity believes that Jesus Christ is the only way. This is the Christian belief system. It is one of exclusivity of truth. I understand this may aggravate but it is part and parcel of the belief system.
Personally, I don't believe this has to be regularly thrown into other people's faces, but when the topic comes up, as it has now that you've brought it up, I think it's important to clarify that yes, the Bible is clear that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, to forgiveness, and to receive eternal life.
Edit: Oh, and perhaps we might attempt to refrain from getting too overly ugly with one another so that we don't get this thread locked too, huh guys? Here's hoping.
[Edited on 9/23/2009 12:02 AM]
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| Sep 22 @ 11:59 PM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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MrPaul
Posts: 1,635
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Goose  I wasn't trying to take your comment out of content I read it twice and that is how I took it. I agree with you about holy rollers trying to shove things down peoples throats just doesn't cut it. Jesus, Buddha etc. taught love and caring for others I do not believe either of them believed in aggressiveness
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| Sep 23 @ 12:07 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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j_goose
Posts: 2,911
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It would be interesting if you could show us the large number that have condemned unbelievers if only two havent.
This ought to be a real entertaining list of little
It would be equally interesting if you could count.
I listed three who have NEVER comdemned a non-believer on this site.
Every other (who subscribes to mainstream Christianity) has. The three I listed have never thrown their beliefs at us as the "Truth". Just as their "Belief".
Got a couple of days to wait? I'll post examples. (Even from you)
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| Sep 23 @ 12:13 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,230
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Goose, if you don't mind please, could you kind of define for us what you feel is "condemning a non-believer?" Thanks..
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| Sep 23 @ 12:20 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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Jankia
Posts: 11,907
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Thanks..its edited.
Every other (who subscribes to mainstream Christianity) has
The three I listed have never thrown their beliefs at us as the "Truth". Just as their "Belief".
Got a couple of days to wait? I'll post examples. (Even from you)
Certainly...I'll take up your offer...I'll even give you all year to find one post out of over 11,000 that I condemned an unbeliever and just what it was I condemned them too..
While your at it please also give examples of what Every other (who subscribes to mainstream Christianity) has as well.
No hurry.
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| Sep 23 @ 12:40 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,200
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Forget it...I can see this thread getting shut down as well. When they become Personally Attacking Members, this website frowns hard and locks them up! And they don't care if your Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, Athiest, or a Supremacist!
Many Christians, even if they don't join in, give silent approval by praising them indirectly or remaining silent. To my mind that is almost as bad. Christian people who stand by and say nothing when other "Christian" people are out of line, make the problem worse. Like it is some sort of big club, and right or wrong, Christians will protect their own.
Silent approval?? Geez! I will tell you something right now...I have been here in the forums for 8 years. During those eight hears I have spoken up to all beliefs, including that one dirty label called CHRISTIANS. There are bad Christians and there are good Christians. No one is born a CHRISTIAN...it's not a breed...it's not a DNA...it's not a one group sect...it's many. Just like Buddhists, Jews and Taoists as well as Athiests.
Do you go out and burn down all the neighbors houses that go to church? Do you also burn down all the churches? Then your a Supremacist that is in dire need of medical attention and a few years behind bars.
Your Cyber get go will not change anyone. Understand? NO ONE! If you can't handle your own neighborhood of Christians, or eat at the same restaurant or have a Christian Doctor or a Christian Fireman save your life. You have a very serious problem!
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| Sep 23 @ 1:38 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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pastordon
Posts: 624
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It is because there are so many people sporting the Christian banner that use religion to denounce other people
Lance, I think we all agree with you. Being a Christian means we humble ourselves before God and before others. It means, therefore, that we are to be gentle and humble.
I don't know what all you are referring to specifically, but any Christian who takes on an arrogant, self-righteous, and condescending attitude towards anyone is wrong, on that basis alone.
Goose, I think I understand where you are coming from, too, as far as feeling put down when we Christians say that there is salvation only in Jesus. And, I do know that some Christians proclaim this in an arrogant way--which, again, is out of line. But most of us Christians don't feel better than others at all, because we know that we ourselves sin and have done nothing to earn our salvation. When we (and the gospel) say there is only one way of salvation, it's like saying there is only one antidote for some deadly poison that everyone has drunk. We feel an urgency to get the antidote out to everyone because we believe that, without it, people have no hope. But please don't take our sense of urgency as some kind of putdown to unbelievers. And, we Christians, at the same time, must do our best not to come across as being insensitive or as putting anyone down.
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| Sep 23 @ 1:46 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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iam01
Posts: 6,283
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[Edited on 9/23/2009 1:53 AM]
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| Sep 23 @ 1:56 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor
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southernlass
Posts: 2,230
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I didn't hear Pastor Don say that any one of us Christians are saints yet, did anyone else?
He said that the ideal is that we'll behave as Jesus Christ would have us behave, but unfortunately, we are all still human beings just as the rest of you are, and we haven't received our halos just yet. Do bear this in mind when we slip up and fall off of the pedastal some seem to enjoy placing us onto.
When pushed to the extreme day after day, some of us may eventually tear a chunk out of your hide. No one said we were perfect, we're just forgiven.
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| Sep 23 @ 5:56 AM |
Anyone have answers for the pastor |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,019
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He said that the ideal is that we'll behave as Jesus Christ would have us behave, but unfortunately, we are all still human beings just as the rest of you are, and we haven't received our halos just yet. Do bear this in mind when we slip up and fall off of the pedastal some seem to enjoy placing us onto. I've never put any of you Christians on a pedestal because I know you're no differant from the rest of us.I only memtion your faults to show how much like us pagans you believers really are.
As far as doing what Jesus would do, it depends on the situation, right? I mean, how many of you have gone into a fake teachers meeting with a whip and tried to stop him from making money in Gods name? Well, Jesus did that in the temple.
How many christian have healed the sick, raised the dead, walked on water? Didn't Jesus say you would do greater works than he did?
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