| Sep 27 @ 4:31 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
Deborah551
Posts: 1,013
|
I thought I might title this thread Who was Jesus talking to? But I decided that didn't encompass all there is to say about this Jesus fellow. Why did he seem to contradict himself so often? Did a man named Jesus even exist? Did Jesus have a wife? Did he have children? Is the gospel today anything like the gospel Jesus preached? What is the gospel? How do we know who wrote the 4 gospel accounts? What is faith and how does one receive it?
I'll start it off by saying I've been talking to the Mormons and JW's a lot lately and I've found they are so much like most of Christianity in that they use the word faith a lot. When a quesiton can't be answered that makes sense, they all say you just need to accept it on faith. Accept the Adam and Eve creation on faith, accept Joe Smiths finding the gold plates on faith, trust the Watchtower's interpretation of the Bible on faith. The problem with all this trusting in faith is that all of them disagree about what it is we are to trust on faith. So, can anyone make a good defense of why their belief is anymore legitimate than any other faith belief? I'll get this started and quote some scriptures about what Jesus said about faith later.
|
|
  |
|
| Sep 27 @ 4:49 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
|
For a working copy...
James 2: (KJV)
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (for interest...the story of Rahab is in Joshua 2)
[Edited on 9/27/2009 4:54 PM]
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 4:50 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
|
When a quesiton can't be answered that makes sense, they all say you just need to accept it on faith T
To me, this just brings up more questions. Why should I just accept it on faith? What's in it for me if I do? What reason do I have to accept it on faith? Emotional? Logical? Where's your epistomology?
The problem with all this trusting in faith is that all of them disagree about what it is we are to trust on faith. So, can anyone make a good defense of why their belief is anymore legitimate than any other faith belief?
This is the question that no religion can answer. Just like my question of why one belief is a fairy tale and one belief is "gospel". Good luck on this one.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 4:54 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
|
Angel,
All that you have done, is show motivation. Emotional connection to a belief and what has motivated it. i.e. : A person believes and they do X becaue they believe it and they do it. Nothing objective to show why what they believe is objectively true. Until you come up with that, you will have nothing that will even give impetus to search for anything that would sell your belief system as true to people like us.
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:00 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
|
Faith is defined in a number of conflicting and different ways with in the religious. God's defining of Faith is different from people's definitions and his takes precedence over mans.
Written in James...even the devils believe in God.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Note: (I personally do not believe in a celestrial being satan nor devils)
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:05 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
|
Thor...
All that you have done, is show motivation. Emotional connection to a belief and what has motivated it. i.e. : A person believes and they do X becaue they believe it and they do it. Nothing objective to show why what they believe is objectively true. Until you come up with that, you will have nothing that will even give impetus to search for anything that would sell your belief system as true to people like us.
Give me a break here! It's a brand new thread...It was my first post and I also stated my reason for posting the scripture..."For a working copy."
The thread is not aimed at people like you...it is a topic on comphrension of what Jesus taught and his representations of his reasons being here. Jesus was "God With Us" bringing God's word to this world from where Jesus existed from the beginning.
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:12 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
j_goose
Posts: 2,906
|
Note: (I personally do not believe in a celestrial being satan nor devils)
Then where does temptation come from? Isn't Satan the "Temptor". And if there's no Satan, what's all that blame in the bible for?
And isn't satan the one who's to blame for all us athiests?
2 Corinthians 4:4 (NIV)
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:16 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
|
Didn't Jesus confront Peter and said "Get behind me Satan!" Peter was not Satan and neither was he possessed by it.
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:25 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
iam01
Posts: 6,267
|
The problem with all this trusting in faith is that all of them disagree about what it is we are to trust on faith. So, can anyone make a good defense of why their belief is anymore legitimate than any other faith belief?
Its very simple. Whatever one you happen to be born into by accident of birth or coerced into is the right one and all others are filthy lies whose followers are infidels.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:29 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
j_goose
Posts: 2,906
|
Didn't Jesus confront Peter and said "Get behind me Satan!" Peter was not Satan and neither was he possessed by it.
So Pete was the "Tempter"?
Matthew 16:23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men
All this scripture is doing is showing Jesus getting pissed off at ol' Pety because he disagreed with Jesus about dying and being raised from the dead.
Are you suggesting that Jesus made up "satan"? Who was in the desert with Jesus then?
I'm not following your line of thinking here....
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:31 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
uncrazy
Posts: 2,382
|
Deb offered,
...So, can anyone make a good defense of why their belief is anymore legitimate than any other faith belief? I'll get this started and quote some scriptures about what Jesus said about faith later.
Even early in this thread I see what might make discussions complicated.
Deb has focused the OP to what Jesus says about faith.
A C&P of James follows..
We then divert to the devil who likely have faith in the existence of God, but they're trmbling...
We then cut to Paul...
The church has gotten an incredible bang for clarifying for us the being of the devil.
The devil seems like the unseeable terrorist, ever ready to strike at God's new chosen...for the Jews he was only at the level of the adversary" that acted on God's direction and permission...for christians his power has grown as the power and reach of the church grew.
The christian dogma has push back its definition onto the OT...but as a mythos can be said to be operating in the present, it can be placed in the stories of the past to stand as evidence.
History does not easily stick to myth, but mythos can be fused to history to make it larger.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:31 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
iam01
Posts: 6,267
|
God's defining of Faith is different from people's definitions and his takes precedence over mans. I'm sure many schizophrenics will side with you on that because who would know better about what Napoleon is thinking about these days?
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:48 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
Deborah551
Posts: 1,013
|
Deb has focused the OP to what Jesus says about faith.
A C&P of James follows..
We then divert to the devil who likely have faith in the existence of God, but they're trmbling...
We then cut to Paul... That was my thought too, Uncrazy, as it was Angel who quoted from James and she's the one who complains the most when the thread goes off topic.
God's defining of Faith is different from people's definitions and his takes precedence over mans. Maybe God doesn't know what faith is either. 
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:58 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
|
and she's the one who complains the most when the thread goes off topic.
Present your full censorship of this please on every member here! Thank you...
btw...I have a right to address to off topic posts as well as every heathen here does.
Again...my original post was FOR A WORKING COPY. Do I have to present a dictionary too??? Geez!
Are we going to proceed with the topic or continue to throw dagers every which way???
[Edited on 9/27/2009 5:59 PM]
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 5:58 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
Jankia
Posts: 11,892
|
Deb- So, can anyone make a good defense of why their belief is anymore legitimate than any other faith belief?
Thor-This is the question that no religion can answer. Just like my question of why one belief is a fairy tale and one belief is "gospel". Good luck on this one.
Thats true...in a way.
No religion can answer it because the word "faith" was included.
Religion is a fundamental belief shared by a group.
Faith isnt a belief but an individuals confidence in God.
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 6:00 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
|
Finally we have some intelligent interaction...(excluding Goose; he was addressing my note, which was not to be a topic...sorry Goose).
Thanks Jankia! 
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 6:06 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
Jankia
Posts: 11,892
|
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 6:11 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
|
Maybe God doesn't know what faith is either.
Wishful thinking...but if your statement were true, why would Jesus say...
Have Faith in God. (Mark 11:22)
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 6:13 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus!
|
|
Deborah551
Posts: 1,013
|
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith? What does this mean that God clothes us as well as grass? Since believers in God and those who don't believe in God, both have to work for a living, how is it that God is clothing us? Someone has to make the clothes and distribute them and then a comsumer must buy them. What does this have to do with God anyway?
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? Well, what if you haven't eaten in 2 weeks and you only have the clothes on your back? Wouldn't you be worried?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. So, why are so many people starving and naked if God provides for our needs?
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. So, it's only those who seek his kingdom who are clothed and fed? But, this makes no sense because those who don't believe in God are clothed and fed too.
So, really, what was Jesus talking about when he told his people to not worry about physical needs?
Present your full censorship of this please on every member here! Thank you... I NEVER complain when threads get highjacked, Angel. But you do. I realize how hard it is to stay on topic and it only takes one post to veer off into new topics. I would really like to keep it on topic, if possible.
[Edited on 9/27/2009 6:23 PM]
|
|
| |
|
| Sep 27 @ 6:13 PM |
Let's talk about Jesus! |
|
ForumMod
Posts: 1,812
|
definition of FAITH from dictionary.com
[Edited on 9/27/2009 6:13 PM]
|
| |
|
|
|
|