| Oct 6 @ 8:08 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,021
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The show To Tell the Truth was a popular game show in the 1950's. 3 people would stand before a panel and say he/she was a certain person. Then the panel would ask questions of the 3 contestants to determine who was the real person.At the end the real person was revealed by this question: Will the real Jane/Joe Doe please stand up? Anyway, I got to thinking about who is the real Jesus. Is he the virgin born babe in a manger, or a child of Mary and Josephs sexual union? After all, both the geneologies claim Jospeh as Jesus real father. How much of the NT attributed as Jesus words were words he actually spoke? Anybody have any opinions about Jesus and who he really is?
[Edited on 10/6/2009 9:37 AM]
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| Oct 6 @ 8:18 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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alivenwell351
Posts: 3,040
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If jesus really existed I think he was probably a lot like Ronald Reagan...
Definitely motivated and sincere, ultra popular with those who agreed with him, believed to be a messiah to those needing one, but in reality just a very effective, well compensated front man for a group of sinister folks with an agenda. And a larger than real life icon after his death, with much more importance being attributed to him by like minded sheep than deserved...
[Edited on 10/6/2009 8:24 AM]
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| Oct 6 @ 8:28 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,267
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I tend to think of him as a follower not a leader or a original leader - He really did not appear on the public scene until John the Baptist was imprisoned. He evidently disagree with John about some things as before that he took 1 to 3 of John's followers with him. After John died all of John's followers became his followers.
As best as I can figure John would not fit the Messiah image as he was behead so Jesus the man became the story line of choice to wrap the older myths around. 
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| Oct 6 @ 8:32 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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The show Truth or Consequences was a popular game show in the 1950's. 3 people would stand before a panel and say he/she was a certain person. Then the panel would ask questions of the 3 contestants to determine who was the real person.At the end the real person was revealed by this question: Will the real Jane/Joe Doe please stand up? You are thinking of "To Tell the Truth", but I get you. Great questions!!!
who is the real Jesus. Is he the virgin born babe in a manger, or a child of Mary and Josephs sexual union? That comes down to if you believe the miracles of the bible. If you believe water to wine, and Lazeraus returning from the dead, then it is perfectly plausible that Mary could have been impregnated without sex. We can do the same thing today (more or less) with invitro.
How much of the NT attributed as Jesus words were words he actually spoke? I suspect most of the words quoted to Yeashua are pretty accurate, but that much is left out. The "sermon on the mount" is a few minutes long and there is no way he would have spoken for just a few moments.
Anybody have any opinions about Jesus and who he really is? As far as what he looked like, there is not much to go on. There is the "hair like sack cloth" and "feet of bronze" thing, but that would describe just about anyone in that time/era.
As far as what he was, nearly everyone who believes he existed agrees that he had a human body like the rest of us. I sort of have to remind myself of that now and then. He ate, he laughed at a funny joke, he urinated and defecated, he farted now and then at inopportune moments. He picked his nose, woke up with morning wood, and vomited when he was sick. All those things connected to the human condition, that are seldom talked about with regard to Yeashusa, he had.
As far as his intellect, it is pretty much a given that he was extremely smart. He was able to outwit hecklers and trick questions with ease. His deep thoughts and understanding of human psychology says to me he was very analytical.
As for his emotional personality, he was hopelessly in love with all humans and was one of the most benevolent persons you will find. He was always willing to suffer or face hardship, even before his crucifixion.
As far as his temperament, I don’t know that he was quick tempered, but he definitely had a fuse and could blow. He was very upset when the traders and money lenders used the church to line their pockets. (are you listening out there, you sow-a-seed-of-faith-on-your-visa-or-master-card folks?) He became so angry that he chased them out with a whip. Apparently many of the people had had enough of it as well because no one intervened.
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| Oct 6 @ 9:17 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,267
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 That is only if the hearsay in the bible was/is accurate about him. I trust Islam's description and the lost Gospels of Thomas more than words in the bible not because of the words but the fact that a Institution backed by the Roman Government formed the words into the NT.
Trust not, want not!
It is a pretty sad state of affairs when a Emperor must step in to tell Religions to get their act together into one religion. It makes me smile when I consider the American government doing that now to the 9000 different Protestant religions.
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| Oct 6 @ 9:37 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,021
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You are thinking of "To Tell the Truth", but I get you. Great questions!!! Thanks Lance. I even looked up 50's game shows and Truth or Consequences sounded right, but To Tell the Truth sounds even more right, and is right! I changed it on the OP as I still was able to. Thanks again for showing me that.
That comes down to if you believe the miracles of the bible. If you believe water to wine, and Lazeraus returning from the dead, then it is perfectly plausible that Mary could have been impregnated without sex. We can do the same thing today (more or less) with invitro. When I was a Christian I had no trouble believing the miracles of the Bible. But, when I started to examine other religions and found many of them had similar if not the same miracles, I became disillusioned about the Bible miracles. I mean, if Jesus just ascended into heaven, then why couldn't Muhammed fly on a horse or a rug? Invitro is still mans intervention and not the same as Mary getting pregnet by Gods spirit. If invitro was available in Jesus time, then virgin birth wouldn't have been a big deal.
As far as his intellect, it is pretty much a given that he was extremely smart. He was able to outwit hecklers and trick questions with ease. His deep thoughts and understanding of human psychology says to me he was very analytical. That's another problem I have with chrisitanity. There are so many explanations for Jesus teachings/preachings that it makes my mind spin. Everyone seems to have an opinion on what his parables, pithy quotes, healings, rebukes etc. mean. So much of what Jesus said wasn't what he said. It's been proven that the woman brought to Jesus in adultery wasn't a true story. But, the moral lesson I learned from it is true. Don't judge others if you're just as guilty of sin as they are you don't stone others if you're stoned. It's one of my favorite stories Jesus told and Jesus never told it!
That is only if the hearsay in the bible was/is accurate about him. I trust Islam's description and the lost Gospels of Thomas more than words in the bible not because of the words but the fact that a Institution backed by the Roman Government formed the words into the NT. Trinity, immortal soul, hellfire, bread and wine becoming flesh and blood, virgin births were all brought into the bible by RCC. Look at how the RCC makes peace with every pagan country by incorporating their pagan beliefs with RCC beliefs.
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| Oct 6 @ 9:44 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,267
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The tune Onward Christian Soldiers comes to mind when I think of Christianity so much blood spilled for nothing.
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| Oct 7 @ 2:14 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,201
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I suppose To Tell The Truth would be Jesus in the middle while the robbers are on each side with Jesus saying "follow me", while they are saying "what's in it for me"!... 
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| Oct 7 @ 2:21 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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kjac
Posts: 8,163
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If jesus really existed I think he was probably a lot like Ronald Reagan...
Old, out of his mind, and prone to frequent cat-naps?
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| Oct 7 @ 7:22 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,021
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I suppose To Tell The Truth would be Jesus in the middle while the robbers are on each side with Jesus saying "follow me", while they are saying "what's in it for me"!... Didn't the one thief ask Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom? Sounds like he was interested in "what's in it for me." How many Cristians would follow Jesus if there was absolute proof there was no life after death?
[Edited on 10/7/2009 7:33 AM]
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| Oct 7 @ 7:41 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,267
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Old, out of his mind, and prone to frequent cat-naps? Blasphemy
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| Oct 7 @ 8:22 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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I became disillusioned about the Bible miracles. I mean, if Jesus just ascended into heaven, then why couldn't Muhammed fly on a horse or a rug? I have noticed that. The tale of Eve and the apple is basically the same story as Pandora and the box. There are many examples of the same stories told slightly differently in different religions. I have mixed feeling about that. It means, of course, that all but one of the versions got the details incorrect (or maybe they are all incorrect). Then I ask myslef, is that really so bad or unreasonable. The stories survived thousands of years without video and mass communication.
Also, despite the minor descrepancies it is interesting that one religion collaborates the story of the next.
Everyone seems to have an opinion on what his parables, pithy quotes, healings, rebukes etc. mean. Well yes and no. You are right, there are descepancies even between the parts of the NT (the OT is so far out there, I will let that be for now)
It's been proven that the woman brought to Jesus in adultery wasn't a true story. I have not heard about this, but would like to hear more. Can you point me in a direction? I am not saying that I will agree with your source. Like as not I will disagree because, off the surface, it seems hard to prove or disprove a 2000 year old story, but I would very much like to read about theie ideas either way.
Didn't the one thief ask Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom? Sounds like he was interested in "what's in it for me." How many Cristians would follow Jesus if there was absolute proof there was no life after death? Excellent point!!!!! It is one that contemplate alot. One thief said "get us off this cross" the other said "remember me in heaven"
When you really boil it down, they were both out for their own interests. The difference was, one of them was demonstrating faith, that is why he was admonished and the other one wasn't.
In a manner of speaking, everyone is out for their own interest. People get saved because they want to enjoy heaven. In Revealations, when John was on the island, he supposedly was given a vision from God. What he saw was so compelling, if he had written it down, supposedly everyone who read it would slap their forehead I-coulda-hadda-V8 style and realize God is real. For the life of me, I can't imagine what those words might have been, but let's say for the moment they exist. God told Paul NOT to write them down. Let he who is just be unjust and all of that.
For whatever his reasons, God wants faith. That was the difference in the two thieves. That is why Paul was told not to write.
That is the reason, we can not see beyond this life. Everyone wants a peek, but nobody is going to get it. Nobody gets any garauntees.
It is not so hard to understand, really. Heaven is gift, not something we can earn. If you tell your kid "Since you have been good, I am going to buy you a bicycle" and the kid says "Show me the money first" it is liable to piss you off
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| Oct 7 @ 8:31 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,267
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Jesus the biggest boogie man of all time....
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| Oct 7 @ 9:53 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,201
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It's been proven that the woman brought to Jesus in adultery wasn't a true story. I have not heard about this, but would like to hear more. Can you point me in a direction? I am not saying that I will agree with your source. Like as not I will disagree because, off the surface, it seems hard to prove or disprove a 2000 year old story, but I would very much like to read about theie ideas either way.
Very true...LOL. And just think if the Aesop gainsayers now wrote that Jesus threw the first stone to add more coals to their Moleck furnice.
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| Oct 7 @ 10:02 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,021
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add more coals to their Moleck furnice. What's a Moleck furnice and where do you find that in the Bible?
I have not heard about this, but would like to hear more. Can you point me in a direction? I am not saying that I will agree with your source. Like as not I will disagree because, off the surface, it seems hard to prove or disprove a 2000 year old story, but I would very much like to read about theie ideas either way.
It's found in Bart Ehrmans book but I'm not sure which one. When I find the quote I'll let you know. But, in his book Misquoting Jesus Bart says these scriptues weren't found in the original script----1John5:7, John 8:7 and 11, Luke 22:44 and 20, Mark 16-18, John 5:4, Luke 24:12 and 51
[Edited on 10/7/2009 10:10 AM]
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| Oct 7 @ 10:06 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,201
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^^^ Wow! And she claims to have read the OT... 
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| Oct 7 @ 10:16 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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iam01
Posts: 6,283
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I suspect most of the words quoted to Yeashua are pretty accurate, but that much is left out. The "sermon on the mount" is a few minutes long and there is no way he would have spoken for just a few moments. What you feel is accurate is only based on desire. The actual words are hearsay at best. At worst are pure fabrications of what he said and we know such fabrications exists. But the most important point is him speaking for much longer than a few minutes. It seems no matter how little or how long he spoke, there was no one there writing anything down. If we assume there was a Jesus, there is nothing but faith that links what is written to any actual person and that faith can only be placed on the validity of ancient literature.
It would probably make sense to learn what the political movements were at the time and imagine a man, likely many men, who stood up against pharisee hypocrites who were money grubbers yet had no problem paying taxes when it was due. Seems today we have huge religious institutions who are exempt from paying taxes and run by money grubbers.
[Edited on 10/7/2009 10:21 AM]
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| Oct 7 @ 10:20 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,021
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^^^ Wow! And she claims to have read the OT... Oh really? Well you tell me where I can find a Moleck furnice.in the Bible? I've found a MOLECH there, but not a MOLECK FURNICE. So, who hasn't read the Bible now? Can't even spell which is a fault in others you often point out, but can't recognize in yourself.
Lev 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through [the fire] to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I [am] the LORD.
Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
Lev 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
Lev 20:4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
Lev 20:5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
1Ki 11:7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
2Ki 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which [is] in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.
Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which [are] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through [the fire] unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
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| Oct 7 @ 10:36 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,201
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May I suggest an "Anger Management" class...it would do wonders for your communication lapse. 
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| Oct 7 @ 10:38 AM |
Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up? |
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iam01
Posts: 6,283
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You might do the same if you won't upgrade from dial-up and donate the TRS-80 to a museum.
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