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Pornography and religion/spirituality


Oct 9 @ 8:06 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
I was reading something in another forum and thought this would make a good topic, primarily based upon my own perspective regarding pornography and the stance of my religion on it. I want to include everyone's religion/spirituality though, so please don't hold back just because you're Hindu, Buddhist, etc. If you have any sources to share that are on topic, please do share.

My take, in a nutshell, is that pornography is an extremely dangerous, rather subtle "evil." I call it evil because, in my opinion, it is exactly that. I have stats to back up how addictive porn is and how it has become one of the more prevalent addictions across the board, for Christian and non Christian alike. There are a host of reasons why I consider porn to be addictive for male and females these days, and many reasons why it is suddenly an issue for so many people, of all backgrounds, gender, and religions.

But let's talk about your opinions on porn, and if some are brave enough, your personal experience with it -- then tell us about your particular religious beliefs/spirituality and how porn manages to fit in as okay or not okay with your beliefs.

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Oct 9 @ 9:17 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
uab_5


Posts: 4,759
porn is a tease

I'd rather have it!
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Oct 9 @ 11:04 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
Jankia


Posts: 11,887
Hardcore pornography does provide alot of money to the makers of it and a payable job for those in it.That doesnt make it right but like using drugs or alchohol ruins some peoples lives,it doesnt ruin everyones,and it nearly impossible to prohibit.
But...if more effort were put into prohibiting something that is best left in the home between two adult people...sex,less would be put into doing what this country is doing rather well...prohibiting child pornography.
Like us all,Ive seen pornography but Ive never seen child pornography,so we are doing a good job in keeping that from being commercialized.

Since you know our choices are limited,I would rather spend all our money and time stopping the abuse of our children being used to make child porn then spend it on stopping adults making adult pornography.
Our Bishop had to remove our Pastor years ago because he was downloading porn on the churches computer.
Your right SL,he admitted to being addicted to it.
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Oct 10 @ 12:08 AM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
I'm going to be posting some c & p on topic because I feel this topic is really important to bring to everyone's attention. I expect very few people to actually admit their own personal pornography use but kudos to those who are honest enough to do so. Just for the record, I'm not particularly discussing the rare occasion when as a couple, two people pop in a porn vid and enjoy themselves. I'm really more inclined to discuss the primary culprit (because of its very availability) internet porn. I really hope we'll have some brave souls step forward, and tell us their truth in dealing with it.

I'm also pretty certain we'll have countless raise a hand who will claim that they aren't affected, that they can quit anytime they want.

Even if it's not an addiction for you, the reader, I think you'll find the upcoming stats and information valuable. And what is especially intriguing, is that Christians seem to have some very serious problems admitting to their regular porn use and their addictions to it. This in itself should alert them to the problem. Whenever a Christian has to lie or hide something in their behavior from anyone else, they can be pretty darn sure that their behavior isn't something God or Jesus Christ would expect or approve of from a Christian.

Porn isn't something that is easy for anyone to talk about these days, and now we're finding that women are becoming just as addicted to it as men are. Men have found ways to convince the women of today that they are too possessive, too insecure, and too jealous of these hardcore pixel gals, when their ladies put up a fuss about their guys viewing porn. As a result of this, a great many women are now tolerating their boyfriends and husbands using porn regularly, but there are still countless wives and girlfriends who have no clue whatsoever about their boyfriend or husband's nightly porn habits.

It's an interesting topic to look into further and it is something I've frequently had to counsel others on. I look forward to sharing what I've learned in my addictions classes and online with some of you who decide to follow the thread, most especially the Christians who may be reading or participating.

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Oct 10 @ 8:09 AM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
yashaenka


Posts: 8,235
I have both a similar and a dissimilar take on this. The human anatomy has nothing to do with this and those of you who have ever been to a nudist camp where families go sex is not in your face and actually after you get used to being nude and seeing other men and women nude it is rather refreshing because there simply is no pecking order people are just their selves.

To me porn is a desire for something that is prohibited by society and sex to a more or lesser extent has rules on it made by various societies. So porn is that which is not the norm so it is abnormal deemed so by society.

I have a real problem with porn it simply is bad for children as it is not the norm accepted by society. I also have a problem with it as it debases women in all of it's various forms.

But nudity by itself is not porn it all depends on where, how and by whom nudity is seen or displayed.

America is a feel good society and some may say I do not care if I do die I want to see the dew fly!

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Oct 10 @ 8:26 AM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
iam01


Posts: 6,265
First I would like to say : to this thread.

In the past pornography was a disgusting business where women who were druggies or run aways were often exploited. Today its become mainstream business where very stringent rules are followed. Porn stars must show up to work with "papers". They must take HIV tests that are far more thorough at the DNA level. Porn stars today have better working standards than years ago. They have conventions and award ceremonies. Many women are now producers and make "softer" porn geared towards a female and couples audience where extended foreplay is shown. Where the man is depicted as unselfish and spends more time pleasuring the women. Women get paid far more than men. Many are millionaires. Women are still exploited but far less than the past. Its not for everybody and only certain kinds of people who are exhibitionists can do it. I think the evolution of the business is fascinating and would need its own thread but not in R&S.

Porn addiction is a problem. The more repressed people are, the more they act out in unhealthy and abnormal ways. Repressed sexuality causes more people to indulge rather than abstain. Being addicted to porn is like any addiction. One can be addicted to religion, drugs, food, alcohol and gambling. Each attack different vulnerable areas physically and mentally. All addictions are substitutes for an unfulfilled void in one's life and the addiction will not fulfill but cause the craving to continue and deepen.

Child pornography is a heinous offense and pedophiles should be dismembered and chemically castrated. People who write pedophile poetry like Ana are sick and the people who admire them have mental problems.

Porn upsets some people. It upsets women who have a distorted self image and problems relating to men. These kind of women could be emasculating types, unable to be sexy and seductive. Porn can upset men with small and/or useless penises. Porn makes them feel insecure because the videos may depict people who are far better looking than they are and doing something they are too hung up to enjoy. Porn can intimidate the very people no one would want to have sex with anyway. They're fugly. Porn addiction has its highest rates in the Bible Belt and religion is the blame for that. Religion, especially the variety from the cults of Abraham seek to disturb the expression of very natural human urges and desires into disgusting things that are perverted.

Bottom line is this. Secure people aren't personally threatened by porn. A sexy couple are into each other, not videos or images. A hot and sexy couple doesn't need to watch porn to get excited but they might watch it together just for fun. A hot couple are just hot and exude the kind of chemistry that is unmistakable. They are often attractive people not necessarily in the physical sense as much in the aura of confidence they give off. They're confidence but not cocky. You can tell when two people just fit well together. Its not any one thing.

Furthermore, sexuality can be a spirituality that incorporates the body and mind as unified. Some of this is found in the Kama Sutra, Tantric sex, sex magic and so on. That is not what this thread is about. That is another thread...




[Edited on 10/10/2009 8:33 AM]
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Oct 10 @ 8:44 AM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
eyesofastranger


Posts: 922
Iam you have a very disciplined mind and for you porn is ok. We the tribal human animal have to understand exactly what porn is first then share it with our partners. The tribal human reacts differently depending on how many fertile aged women are in our tribe. Porn has the ability to fool some into believing they are amongst several possible candidates while trying to live a monogamous existence. I know that must sound stupid to those that have realized sex is a lot more than the act and is a sharing of minds but it is proven fact. Younger men who have not found the sharing of minds are terribly affected by the influence of porn.
The amount of money changing hands in this industry guarantees it's here to stay.
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Oct 10 @ 9:45 AM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
iam01


Posts: 6,265
Iam you have a very disciplined mind and for you porn is ok.
I didn't want to give the impression all porn is OK. Much of it is very disgusting and degrading and to an immature mind would only distort their relationship with sex and love making. That is my own personal bias. Different strokes for different folks, as they say. Porn for some might actually be a safe way to explore fantasies they would like to learn about. If they can learn something about themselves, maybe they can deal with it and move on. If its a form of escapism, then they need help because that's one aspect of addiction.

As far as I'm concerned, what one, two or more people do behind closed doors is their private business and no one elses. I don't think anything is wrong between consenting adults as long as no one gets hurt.

The way I see it, the right kind of woman brings out the best in a man. The right kind of man brings out the best in a woman. Nothing beats that...
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Oct 10 @ 12:41 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
kjac


Posts: 8,163
I have an imaginary friend who keeps threatening to send me pictures of her ass. Does that count as pornography?
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Oct 10 @ 1:18 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
Angel54214


Posts: 18,169
I dunno kjac...ask Thor; he will tell you if it's a fundamental right.
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Oct 10 @ 9:14 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
My feelings on this topic are that there is a continuum of how addicted one is as there is with most addictions. Those who view it infrequently are obviously not addicted, but some individuals view porn so regularly that they border on addiction. Some use it to the point that it inteferes with daily living, can cost them their employment, and some use it so obessessively that it impacts their relationships once their "secret" is discovered and it destroys their marriages.

I understand how "personal" internet pornography can be for men and some women in the United States of America and even around the world who enjoy it. I'm clear that I'm honing in on their territory and probably making many of them uncomfortable and even irritable with the research that will folllow. To begin with, I do not approach this issue from the perspective of religious judgment or a moral place whatsoever. I approach this issue as one who is concerned about the mental health aspect of the current problem society is now dealing with.

Many men who are using internet porn use it regularly. These men are even in ongoing marriages and serious long term relationships. Some have convinced their wives and girlfriends that viewing internet pornography or porn vids is "normal." For those men who hide their internet porn use, who get caught, many of them will give up their lady friend before they'll give up the porn. Many women in relationships with these men have no idea that their man is even into porn because their man is hiding it from them. Many have no idea that there is a problem potentially developing.

There are millions now who are surfing porn at work, believe it or not, on their employer's dime. They can't stop. It has become this bad in our country. It's become so bad that many of these same men have dragged their women into the viewing of internet porn as well. There are now women with serious porn addictions. Porn could potentially become the next serious addiction problem along the same scale as serious addictions to drugs, gambling, booze, etc. Most men and women who are having a problem don't want to hear about it; they don't want to be confronted with it, and they don't want this in their face. Denial is clearly one of the more important identifying symptoms of this problem.

Equal Opportunity Addiction

Men are viewed as having this addiction, but women are affected as well. 40 million adults in the United States regularly visit pornography sites. Of those 40 million only 10% (four million adults) admitted to having a sexual addiction to pornography. Of the four million adults who admitted to having a sexual addiction problem, 680,000 are women. 17% of the 680,000 women say they struggle with pornography addiction. This is the same number of women who are addicted to alcohol or drugs.

According to Dr. Robert Weiss, founder and executive director of The Sexual Recovery Institute, sexual addicts use sex as a means to cope, to handle boredom, anxiety, and other powerful feelings or as a way to feel important, wanted or powerful. These negative feelings of shame and guilt end up sabotaging relationships, careers and self-esteem. While sexual addiction is not defined by any particular sexual act, sexual addiction is defined by the feelings and activities surrounding sex.

Those who stay up long hours of the night or all night viewing pornography on the Internet often masturbating feel shame, which reinforces the negative feelings that one feels. Another sentiment that an addict expresses is the need for secrecy. The addict perceives the fact that he or she must keep this secret, so they do not sabotage his or her relationship or career. On the high end of addiction one can get abusive in his or her relationships to justify the pornography he or she is viewing.

These emotions and feelings affect the addict's family. Family members start to feel neglected. The addict spends less time with their children and spouse because they feel shame and are trying to cover their addiction, this can put a strain on a marriage. The addict spends less time with spouse and more time trying to view pornography or interact in strange relationships outside of marriage. Another strain on a marriage would be the financial end. Some addicts get into trouble in the form of maxed-out credit card and lost hours of sleep. This loss of hours affects ones job, which could lead to loss of income. (Weston, 2007)

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Oct 10 @ 9:16 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
How can a person become addicted to Internet pornography so easily? The Internet is so accessible these days and it is available around the clock. Addiction to Internet pornography will become more common as more people have access to the Internet. 12% of total websites available on the Internet are pornographic. There are thousands of sites that do not require money and have easy access. For instance, if I apply to ****, which is a website that allows people to meet others individuals or couples for adult fun, a person could include meeting for sex or cyber-sex. This is only one of many websites that are free to the public. A person could pay money, and upgrade his or her account to view more extensive pictures, but most of the pictures available for free are often nude or of sexual acts. After doing some research I have found that just by going to Google, an internet search engine, selecting images and typing in pornographic I can view half a million different pornographic images. This is how easy it is to access pornography on the Internet.

Addiction to Internet Pornography

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Oct 11 @ 5:10 AM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
eyesofastranger


Posts: 922
As a consenting adult couple we have looked at it. I can say there's nothing there that appeals to us. we have a few inside jokes about some of the things they do. Being in a deep caring relationship superficial sex has no appeal.
And Iam I wasn't implying your words said all was ok. Your disciplined mind probably makes you immune to the sex addiction porn is trying to sell.
The porn we have seen was clearly aimed at men. We haven't looked too much so maybe some is aimed at women too.
Earlier in our history we evolved in tribal units. The fertile females had sex with several members of the tribe. Without proof I believe the female evolved orgasm and sexual desire as a means to choose the mate she would like to father her offspring. From there all the sexual disorders of an intelligent species began. Take us back to the stone age and I believe we function perfectly. In our first attempts at civilizations we failed miserably in regards to sex because we had memory and understanding of the tribal days. Read anything about sex and the roman empire and you will see.
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Oct 11 @ 11:24 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
What follows is a personal story via a forum user who wrote to me because he wanted to contribute anonymously regarding his personal situation and experience with pornography. I thought some of the readers here might find it interesting and helpful; others may relate even if they don't openly participate on this topic.

Thank you Southernlass, for the exchange of messages, and for agreeing to post my story to others while affording me the opportunity to remain “unseen”. Having seen some of the views and excuses in this thread has inspired me to speak out. You see, I am a recovering porn addict. I am a male in my 50’s that has found it very hard to have a stable personal life due to the damage I have done to myself through years of escalating porn use. Not only has it affected me, it has had a huge negative impact on my relationships with others.

I first encountered porn at the age of 15, when I would ride my bicycle to the store and buy Playboy and Penthouse magazines, having found the clerks did not care who they sold them to. As I grew older and started having sex, I bought into the whole Playboy lifestyle. I had my subscription, my Playboy Club Key Card, and I went often to the Playboy Club in the big city near where I grew up. I would often “read” magazines and rent porn movies for the weekend. Looking back, I can see how all that affected my relationships, or better put, lack of serious relationships. All through my 20’s and early 30”s my relationships consisted more of “friends with benefits” and way too many one night stands, where we would meet, party, have sex, and move on. During this time, fueled by what I viewed in the mags and vids, I went from one sexual conquest to the next, living out many fantasies that men often have. While I had females who were long term friends and we got along great and often had great sex, I guess that I viewed women more as a form of gratification, than as serious long term partners. I was a nice bad boy, in that I did treat them with some respect, and it was mutually agreed that we would use each other for our pleasures. I really did not want a serious relationship as I thought it would put an end to the fun I thought I was having. Having children of my own was completely out of the question and actually became a fear. Looking back now, I can see that I really missed out on a lot that life had to offer.

As I began to approach my 40’s, I started considering the benefits a long term relationship offered. So many people I grew up with were all married, having kids, and becoming more family oriented. So after I turned 40, once again I chose the fantasy route and married a younger girl (I was two years older than her mother) who I thought I was in love with, yet I had little in common as we were a generation apart. Well that quickly fell apart, and I realized that while some can make such a relationship work, it was not for me and I began to date women closer to my age.

It was during this time that I finally gave in, got a pc and got hooked up with the internet. I soon discovered how easy it was to find free porn in the form of large galleries of photos and complete movies. That began a several year downhill spiral of becoming more and more drawn to viewing and downloading porn and a huge increase in my masturbation. It came to the point that it was so much easier to “get off” looking at porn than it was to put the effort in to developing a solid relationship. I kept telling myself that I did not have a problem, yet I always felt empty and guilty. I would try to stay away from it, even getting rid of all the porn I had, only to go back and download even more.

Three years ago, I met a wonderful woman who is my age, and who is the very person that I have dreamed about being with for so many years. We hit it off very well and everything was fine, till one day she discovered me looking at porn. I tried to play it down, and lied to her that it was not a problem, and told her that since it bothered her I had no problem looking at it. And again I tried to stay away, but once again I was drawn back and caught again. Again, this caused a huge riff in our relationship, resulting with us breaking up for a short while. Again, I tried to lie my way out of it, dismissing the fact that I had a problem and she finally allowed me another chance. Well, things were ok for a while, yet unknown to her, I soon started back into my old habits of looking at and downloading porn, most often when she was not around, as we were living together until one day she came home unexpectedly and caught me doing it again. I completely blew her trust and drove a nail into the coffin of our relationship. A relationship can not survive without trust!

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Oct 11 @ 11:24 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
Porn has affected my life in so many negative ways. It has made me cold to women, hindering my ability to form solid relationships. It distorted my views about sex and what I required in a partner; what most people consider to be kinky sex to me became the norm, and what most consider normal was very boring and unappealing to me. It has caused me to cast away a lot of the morals that I was raised with, along with my integrity. Lie to others, hiding my addiction, and making excusses were all a part of daily life. I have long suffered from ED problems that I attributed to the mere fact that it was cause by my Diabetes and Circulatory health problems; however, I have learned that my daily viewing of porn and masturbation had done most of the damage.

The good news is there is hope, and with appropriate counseling this is an addiction that can be overcome. As I said before, I am recovering, I have been able to stay away from porn for a while now, but I take it one day at a time, with plans for the future that there is still hope for me to have a ‘normal’ loving relationship and life. I am growing once again spiritually and trying to re-establish my relationship with God. I’m learning there is more to life and women than just sex. Although I have not had sexual relations in about 10 months, I am finding that since I quit masturbating daily and viewing porn that I am once again having morning erections, so there is hope for my ED. And I have learned most importantly to be honest with myself and with others.

Be careful if you view porn. If you have ever lied to yourself or lied to others about how much you view it, hidden it, or made excuses for viewing it, or you feel empty and guilty, don't let it run and ruin your life, please seek some help.

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Oct 11 @ 11:28 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
iam01


Posts: 6,265
Isn't pedophile poetry pornography? Why was it OK for Ana to post that? Did he have ED?


[Edited on 10/11/2009 11:31 PM]
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Oct 11 @ 11:31 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
Where did you get your degree, Iam?
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Oct 11 @ 11:32 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
iam01


Posts: 6,265
Didn't you defend Ana's pedophile poetry?
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Oct 11 @ 11:39 PM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
southernlass


Posts: 2,211
In response to those who say that there is no documentation, no scientific peer reviewed research that pornography is harmful, I can successfully argue against that claim now.

It has taken some time but I have located an immense amount of documented peer reviewed research that is compiled in this pdf file/link below. There are fifty one pages of this documentation that go into great detail that is simply impossible to present completely here in this forum.

For those who desire to educate themselves on this important topic, please download the pdf file or merely open it and begin to read. You will discover how damaging pornography is to our relationships, our children, and to ourselves. This is not stated through a conservative or religious perspective. This is peer reviewed research that has been compiled and is thus scientific in nature.

For this paper, Zillman and Bryant’s (1984 and 1988) work is used to give a general overview of the kinds of effects with which pornography has been associated and those that have fueled debate. Zillman and Bryant found the effects of repeated exposure to standard, nonviolent, and commonly available pornography included:

(1) increased callousness toward women;
(2) trivialization of rape as a criminal offense;
(3) distorted perceptions about sexuality;
(4) increased appetite for more deviant and bizarre types of pornography (escalation and addiction);
(5) devaluation of monogamy;
(6) decreased satisfaction with a partner’s sexual performance,
affection, and physical appearance;
(7) doubts about the value of marriage;
(8) decreased desire to have children; and
(9) viewing non-monogamous relationships as normal and natural behavior.


Catherine Itzin is another researcher who argues pornography is associated with harm. In her edited compilation Pornography: Women, Violence and Civil Liberties, Itzin points out that papers by Einsiedel,31 Weaver,32 and Russell,33 review over 300 pieces of research and that the majority of the studies reviewed provide support for pornography-related harm.

Additionally, Einsiedel’s work regarding the negative impact of sexually violent materials is also supported by Donnerstein, Linz, and Penrod;34 Linz and Penrod;35 and Check. Mulac, Jansma, and Linz’s 2002 study added an important layer of empirical support to the harm-related position, as well as overcoming some of the limitations of prior research conducted in laboratory settings and lacking real-life applicability.

Porn's impact on marriage and the family [peer reviewed research]

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Oct 12 @ 2:09 AM Pornography and religion/spirituality    
theorize


Posts: 78
I don't see anything in Iam's posts that exhibits an extremely disciplined mind, maybe a bit clever and obviously intelligent but it takes discipline to examine the negative and positive aspects of whatever you are looking at and maturity to discuss them in an unbiased fashion. Iam seems to be fascinated with porn (which he has eluded to), so it appears he overlooks or minimizes certain aspects of it. I especially like how he characterizes people who dislike porn as having grave emotional or mental flaws, tisk tisk. I don't think the essence of this thread has anything to do with the development of pornography as an industry or the internal workings of that industry, this is a theological and philosophical discussion let's try to stay on topic.

Porn is both good and evil.

On the positive side, to the men and women who are comfortable with it can use it to greatly enhance their sex lives. A couple can learn some fun tricks by watching porn, it can be a great way to "start things off", spark some discussion, there are many ways a couple can use porn to explore their sexuality. For the lonely man or woman who doesn't have a partner porn can be the closest thing to sex they might get. If one hasn't had many partners they might learn a thing or two about how different people have different styles of sex and the might want to find someone with a style they see in porn... so it could help the search for a mate.

But on the other hand porn does have a darker side, it can in fact lead to a distorted image of sex... i fell victim to that when I was young before I had my fair share, so i can attest to that. I am not mentally ill or emotionally disturbed, I started watching porn before I started having sex so it's not that much of a stretch of the imagination how that can happen, and pornography is way more readily available to a whole new generation of kids that it was for me.

And addiction to porn is not a problem of the sexually repressed, those people tend to be more prone to strange fetishes, or actually shy away from pornography and often sex in general due to feelings of guilt, or sometimes become extremely promiscuous in a rebellion of sorts. Addiction to porn can happen to anyone, regardless of their upbringing or demographic.

Or what about the girlfriend/wife that feels like she just can't compete with the women that her man watches in porn... not because she is insecure, I've known plenty of chicks with less than perfect bodies that are totally secure but still feel like their men would rather f*** the porn star. Let's face it, most women do not look like that, if they did then 90 percent of women would have fake tits. Women who feel threatened by porn actresses usually are justified in this. Also this affects men similarly as well, a man who watches a good deal of porn will get those images stamped in his brain, neurons in your brain fire in patterns, and if your brain patterns related to sex constantly are being conditioned to those silicone laden blond bombshells then your brain then you will (to a varying degree) see anything less than that as unsexy. If this happens to a man whose woman is not an embodiment of this then this can have some negative consequences. More often than not he might try to influence her to become like this, it could also lead to infidelity or just lusting after other women.

If your familiar with the incubi and succubi of history then porn actors and actresses could bear a modern day resemblance to them. Most religions around the world teach against against indulging in the pleasures of the flesh and for good reason, not only can it cause social problems but there are many medical dangers associated with rampant rutting. From a theological standpoint pornography is just one more form of sexual DISTRACTION.

All that said I am not against porn. I like porn. In moderation. In my opinion it's only harmful when it's hurtful, which can happen many ways, it can be hurtful to the girlfriend or to the man when that girl dumps him or to that kid who feels let down when sex isn't what he thought it was. Like someone has already said like it or not it's here to stay so the only thing we as a society can do is get a grip and educate ourselves and our children and come to terms with our sexuality and not make it such a big deal and it won't be a big deal. Once this happens I think much of our sexual disfunction will disappear and the amount of quality porn will increase tenfold. My biggest problem with porn is that the overwhelming majority is complete crap, which is nothing more that a reflection of the sexual disfunction of our society.

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