| Oct 17 @ 12:43 AM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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Jankia
Posts: 11,884
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Why?
Why are so many that dont follow the Christian faith so obsessed about it in this forum?
Please set aside for a moment the redundant stories about Christians of the past that used that religion to justify its atrocities.That doesnt explain the present.
Some claim to be sick and tired of having Christianity or any religion "crammed down their throat" yet they invite it by participating in a religious forum.
If it isnt "crammed' down their throats its "forced"
Again...just how is it possible to be forced into something you volunteered to participate in?
How about "conversion".Its often brought up about how some are sick of how the religious attempt to convert them.
Just who would be more obsessed? Religious people in a forum that discusses religion or the people in the same forum that call that discussion...attempts to convert?
Being Christian myself,it really doesn't matter to me what others believe. One of my best friends for the last 40 years is atheist and neither of us had ever had a problem with the other.
That tells me it isnt the belief that bothers people enough to be obsessed,its the people that believe it.
The irony is, many constantly accuse Christians of "pushing their beliefs on them" while they are in a religious and spirituality forum meant to discuss it.
They taunt by copy and pasting anything they can Google that is anti the purpose the forum is for.Why grandstand themselves on a soapbox doing it if they arent obsessed with it?
According to the emails I get,some also wonder like I do why so many prevaricate about that religion and after any particular deviation from the truth is exposed and questioned,they refuse to go any further in discussing it.
Criticism is of course welcomed in any debate but when its combined with cynic obsession like I just mentioned its not only a waste of time but a waste of why MD has this forum to have a fun and safe experience
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| Oct 17 @ 2:55 AM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,169
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Why are so many that dont follow the Christian faith so obsessed about it in this forum? Well Jankia...from my observation this happens even in university debates between scholars as well as writers. Before the internet was established, it was at harder means to express "out-of-control" logisticals in mockery diabolical formation. Humans in general tend to laugh and/or scorn things they don't understand. During the growing ages of youth this was understandable, but stood for correction by parenting. Being adults, this shouldn't happen, for learning through the disciplinary ages. All in all...it's because of the availablity online freedom of the keyboard cyper express that allows it. Although it's being more monitored and watched than we realize. The freedom can disipate like it has done in other countries.
Some claim to be sick and tired of having Christianity or any religion "crammed down their throat" yet they invite it by participating in a religious forum. Yes, I have observed this in a few members as it's really a metaphor of expression in use. People deny their own control over what goes into them and points out an accuser or representation of an accuser in post format as a guilty party for their own choice to read them. LOL
How about "conversion".Its often brought up about how some are sick of how the religious attempt to convert them. This could go inlinement with my above post as well...no one can force anything upon another in a cyber posting forum period! In the real world, if this has happened to them, they need to do go through the "proper channels" to control it and stop it. Especially if they were kidnapped, tied up and forced to participate in a religious ritual of some sort. Otherwise, it's just hot air in the cyber attic.
Being Christian myself,it really doesn't matter to me what others believe. One of my best friends for the last 40 years is atheist and neither of us had ever had a problem with the other.
That tells me it isnt the belief that bothers people enough to be obsessed,its the people that believe it. Jankia of all people...I understand (I hold a dualty belief system of the spiritual world), and also have relations with those of other beliefs. In the real world we all socialize, work with and even have family members that believe differently. "Normally" people don't ask first if one is a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or other before any exchange; that's not realistic. In cyber, religion is asked or accused for a pun is ready to give a KO! It just works for the one giving it as in "ego" satisfaction, but means nothing to the one receiving. If they get attention from the opposer, the ego thrower will keep on throwing! The whole idea is to take it to the lowest level as in you...you...you; the "personal attack".
The irony is, many constantly accuse Christians of "pushing their beliefs on them" while they are in a religious and spirituality forum meant to discuss it.
They taunt by copy and pasting anything they can Google that is anti the purpose the forum is for.Why grandstand themselves on a soapbox doing it if they arent obsessed with it? Adding another observation here...followers love to have followers that are in agreement even if the text is not even researched or a personal opinion is just that...an opinion, minus the you...you...you's. The internet is loaded with information for every and against everyone. People will use what's available to counter attack or instigate an attack for "ego" purposes or giggles. Once again adults can act in the lowest level of childhood to accomidate their own beliefs thinking it will make them power on high. LOL.
According to the emails I get,some also wonder like I do why so many prevaricate about that religion and after any particular deviation from the truth is exposed and questioned,they refuse to go any further in discussing it. That happens and when it does...the non-reply is the acknowledge that validates as a no debate issue. Pride is a prudent behaviour.
Criticism is of course welcomed in any debate but when its combined with cynic obsession like I just mentioned its not only a waste of time but a waste of why MD has this forum to...have a fun and safe experience Considering Politics and Religion are the 2 largest powerful debateables in the whole world. People have been writing about both for thousands of years. People have died & survived by both for thousands of years. And it's not because they exist...it's because people have not masters in human tolerance nor masters in human communication...all because they don't know how as well as refuse to learn how.
Thank you Jankia for this thread and hope you find a point or two worthy in wisdom of my posting for your own explorations.
~ Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing ~
Proverbs 12:18
[Edited on 10/17/2009 3:06 AM]
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| Oct 17 @ 1:37 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Some of these people on the opposite side of the fence, meaning anti-religionists, anti-theists drive me NUTS, but I must tell you, I would also be lost without them. They force me to think, they force me to stay on top of my proverbial game by knowing the word of God, they force me to have to examine why I feel as I do and why I think as I do about my religious beliefs. For these reasons, I am grateful to them.
Another thing is that these people don't like to lose and so they will often start topics and when we best them, they just go away or stop posting on the topic after awhile and in my opinion, this means we won the debate. lol. Or at least that's my interpretation of it. On the other hand, sometimes they simply have no more to say on the matter.
As passionate as I can get about religion, I'm sure those who aren't religious probably feel just as passionate about making it go away or fighting it. I hope that we can have respect for one another now and in the future, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm simply relaxing until we lock horns next because I do enjoy the battle much of the time or I wouldn't be here engaging in it.
 
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| Oct 18 @ 10:06 AM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,434
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Jankia, you've volunteered enough information here, (in this forum), over the years for almost any reasonable person to learn that your love for the Lord is passionate.
You live what you believe.
Your passionate love for the Lord manifests itself in your daily life.
I think you might even say that you are obsessed with your love for Jesus.
I certainly am. (I have not made any effort to keep this quiet for many years. I wear it like a badge of honour.)
Many have similar passion in their hate of Jesus. (For one reason or another.)
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| Oct 18 @ 12:34 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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Why?
Why are so many that dont follow the Christian faith so obsessed about it in this forum? They are obsessed because they are angry for having been mistreated by people who claim to be Christian.
It is because there are so many people sporting the Christian banner that use religion to denounce other people.
Many Christians, even if they don't join in, give indirect approval by praising the offenders. It gives the impression that Christianity is some sort of big club, and right or wrong, Christians will protect their own.
The thing is, when you are treated badly many times by members of a particular group, you begin to despise the group itself.
I don't play that. I am a Christian. I believe that the Christ died for my sins. That does not mean carrying a label gives anyone a free pass to be a jerk. I have had my belly full of condescending, holier-than-thou type Christians.
Yeashua didn't play that either. He was not afraid to speak out against arrogant religious leaders. In the end, it helped put him on the cross.
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| Oct 18 @ 1:57 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,169
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They are obsessed because they are angry for having been mistreated by people who claim to be Christian.
In the whole 8 years I have been as a MD forum participant, have not read of any
"personal mistreatments" of the so called obsessed. I have read of mistreatments performed by bible believer beliefs to other bible believers. I for one posted my situation a long time ago about the Catholic Church and what they did to me.
Everyone is mistreated by someone in the world, what ever their beliefs are or are not, does not make Christians that mistreating in itself a crime in the U.S. law unless a crime has been committed. And I've yet to find even one "Christian Prison."
Perhaps in "honesty and truth" their claims will come to the surface here and tell us of their legal incorporates.
According to Dictionaries..."Mistreatment" is a noun and falls within various other nouns. Mistreatment is the action performed by someone to abuse, cause harm, neglect, harassment. In the lighter definition, mistreatment falls into annoy, irritation, misuse behavior.
Although I have witnessed thousands of "Mistreatments" by the obsessed upon MD members, but surely this thread would get locked to exercise them.
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| Oct 18 @ 3:18 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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In the whole 8 years I have been as a MD forum participant, have not read of any "personal mistreatments" of the so called obsessed. I have. I have quite a bit, actually. People calling other people fake Christians outright, or questioning people's faith or character either explicitly or implicitly.
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| Oct 18 @ 3:48 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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alivenwell351
Posts: 3,008
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Many have similar passion in their hate of Jesus.
Jeesh.... 
How can one hate something he/she doesn't even acknowledge the existence of??. One can't. However one can be as adamant in his/her belief that the god you believe in doesn't exist, as you are that it does!!
For the umpteen millionth time...
DISAGREEMENT DOES NOT EQUATE TO HATE!!!
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| Oct 18 @ 5:13 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,602
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yep!
And frankly, most of us non-christian types have stated pretty consistently that whether he existed or not, or was divine or not, or died for our sins or not, we both accept and applaud most of what he taught...kind of the Jeffersonian approach to Christianity (as in the Jefferson Bible, which omits any sort of miraculous or supernatural interpretation but embraces the ethical one).
One doesn't 'hate' something one admires...even if our interpretations disagree drastically.
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| Oct 18 @ 6:14 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,434
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 "DISAGREEMENT DOES NOT EQUATE TO HATE!!!"
Take a pill...chill out.
Maybe I wasn't talking about those who simply disagree.
Did I actually post All those who disagree with a Christian post... Or did I say "Many have similar passion in their hate of Jesus. (For one reason or another.)
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| Oct 18 @ 6:17 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,434
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Sorry, does this help?
Jeesh....
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| Oct 18 @ 6:19 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,169
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I have. I have quite a bit, actually. People calling other people fake Christians outright, or questioning people's faith or character either explicitly or implicitly.
Well yes, but doesn't constitute "Mistreatment" or are they just hailing their opinions since they don't even personally know the person they are calling.
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| Oct 18 @ 9:05 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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I understand why Alive would say "disagreement does not equate to hate" so emphatically; unfortunatley, what Alive doesn't believe and doesn't realize is what many Christians realize and that is that as the bible says, we are fighting principalities and powers, we are fighting the author of confusion, we are fighting the father of lies and he has the capabilities of influencing one heck of a lot of people who are not immune to his influence.
I personally have no trouble believing that there is a spirit of antichrist influencing and impacting SOME of those who are not following Jesus Christ. In fact, I know this spirit exists and I absolutely do not doubt we believers are warring against it. I think this spirit is exactly why many people appear "obssessed, " appear to hate, and are essentially soldiers against Jesus Christ without even realizing whose team they are playing on!
Let me put it another way.
If you are not playing on team Jesus, than you are unfortunately relegated to playing for and on team Satan, whether you like it or not. Sometimes things are true whether you believe them or not. Now I know that this is going to ruffle countless feathers and anger the many who can't stand the politically correct "intolerance" that such a statement brings up, but I mean no harm by saying it; I'm simply attempting to clarify for everyone how and why one might appear to hate passionately, without even knowing why they are behaving in that manner.
I've seen definite reactions and examples of hate on this forum coming from those who are "debating" believers. I've seen behavior that is reminiscent of the Exorcist movie where the little girl was screaming "No, no, it burns, it burns," when holy water was being tossed on her by the priests.
Again and again, I've watched when a believer begins to discuss something powerful like Jesus Christ and His salvation or an aspect of salvation, or a part of the good news that is particularly powerful. The "demons" or whatever you want to call evil, manifests itself and I can watch particular people on this forum going quite literally beserk attempting to derail whatever the thread is, attempting to do pretty much anything except standing on their cyber head to shut it down.
I really don't care if anyone believes me. I sense this and believe its true, and I'm sorry Alive, but you are mistaken, imo, when you say that disgreement does not equal hate. Darkness and light do not mix and they most especially do not mix right now in this particular time in history. Hatred is profound right now for Jesus Christ and those who sincerely follow Him; what is going on all over the world right now is not mere "disagreement."
[Edited on 10/18/2009 9:44 PM]
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| Oct 18 @ 9:28 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,434
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  No, no, it burns, it burns!!!!
[Edited on 10/18/2009 9:30 PM]
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| Oct 18 @ 9:30 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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Well yes, but doesn't constitute "Mistreatment" or are they just hailing their opinions since they don't even personally know the person they are calling. Well that is the whole point. I have been called a fak and/or flase Christian for not chiming in with the holier-than-thou bandwagon. Anyone who pronounces judgement on someone else's faith is taking alot on themselves. Anyone who does it based on some forum posts has rocks in their head.
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| Oct 18 @ 9:30 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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They are obsessed because they are angry for having been mistreated by people who claim to be Christian.
It is because there are so many people sporting the Christian banner that use religion to denounce other people.
Many Christians, even if they don't join in, give indirect approval by praising the offenders. It gives the impression that Christianity is some sort of big club, and right or wrong, Christians will protect their own.
The thing is, when you are treated badly many times by members of a particular group, you begin to despise the group itself.
No offense, but I think there is quite a bit more to it than what you're saying. I think that there are Christians who don't want to make waves, who want to be liked by everyone, who keep their faith low key, who simply aren't going to clarify the bible or argue it with others. Their place, apparently, is to exhibit Christ's love, acceptance, etc. There are other Christians, who are more "adamant," who clarify the word of God, who will argue, who will stand up and defend their faith. None is better than the other; they simply have different ways of expressing their faith and probably different tasks/missions/ministries.
Obviously, the Christian that is more in one's face, is going to be the one that gets attacked; that Christian is going to be the one who takes it on the chin because he or she is putting themselves out there and thus will bear the brunt of the hatred, disagreement, verbal or otherwise persecution.
Those who are resentful of religion in general, who absolutely hate religion, are not going to appreciate confrontation or argument, or one who stands up to them. This is spiritual warfare, people -- it's nothing to do with the non believer's little resentment against blanket Christianity because some Christian hurt their little feelings or insulted them. It goes much, much deeper, in my opinion.
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| Oct 18 @ 9:36 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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iam01
Posts: 6,264
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I've seen behavior that is reminiscent of the Exorcist movie where the little girl was screaming "No, no, it burns, it burns," when holy water was being tossed on her by the priests. There was a scene in the Devil's Advocate where John Milton played by Al Pacino. (What a cool guy I met walking down the street one Saturday night. He was stinking drunk coming out of the Russian Tea Room and laughing with some girl who was helping him walk). Anyway, the scene is where he was in church and was about to put his finger in the holy water. When he did that he made the water boil.
Sometimes I attend a church services too just to watch the theatrics. It was during a holiday, not sure if it was Christmas or Easter. So we walked into church and I immediately went over to the holy water. I look at her with a grin and was about to dip my finger into it. She knew what I was going to do. She ran over and grabbed my hand and tried to stop me. I love doing stuff like that.
Well here's the scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTt9KgGdcCs
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| Oct 18 @ 9:48 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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I have that movie, Iam. I am going to watch that movie. I never have, can you believe it? I will watch this movie tonight, if possible.
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| Oct 18 @ 9:53 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion
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iam01
Posts: 6,264
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Watch it because its the best acting he's ever done. No one ever played a devil better than him.
But you should know. Its very easy to make holy water boil with small parts of magnesium and silver nitrate. Its a bit dangerous if you aren't careful so for now just use a few Alka Seltzers and watch how people react as they go for it. Its so funny you can almost hear God laughing.
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| Oct 18 @ 10:04 PM |
The Other Obsession With Religion |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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He palyed the devil in another movie too, I think.
No offense, but I think there is quite a bit more to it than what you're saying. I think that there are Christians who don't want to make waves, who want to be liked by everyone, who keep their faith low key, who simply aren't going to clarify the bible or argue it with others. Their place, apparently, is to exhibit Christ's love, acceptance, etc. There are other Christians, who are more "adamant," who clarify the word of God, who will argue, who will stand up and defend their faith. None is better than the other; they simply have different ways of expressing their faith and probably different tasks/missions/ministries. Well, I reckon there are all different types. I don't have a problem being adamant about what I bleieve, I just think it is wrong to give someone alot of flack befcause they refust to chime in with something they don't believe.
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