| Oct 29 @ 8:24 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
Bj864
Posts: 3,958
|
What do you perceive heaven to be?
What do you perceive hell to be?
Do you see them as an actual place, a state of mind or something else?
|
|
  |
|
| Oct 29 @ 10:39 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,211
|
I have my own ideas of what "heaven" would be like for me and hell as well, but I personally believe in the biblical descriptions of both, as a Christian. These are described for us at length below:
Question: "What is Heaven like?"
Answer: Heaven is a real place described in the Bible. The word “heaven” is found 276 times in the New Testament alone. Scripture refers to three heavens. The apostle Paul was “caught up to the third heaven,” but he was prohibited from revealing what he experienced there (2 Corinthians 12:1-9).
If a third heaven exists, there must also be two other heavens. The first is most frequently referred to in the Old Testament as the “sky” or the “firmament.” This is the heaven that contains clouds, the area that birds fly through. The second heaven is interstellar/outer space, which is the abode of the stars, planets, and other celestial objects (Genesis 1:14-18).
The third heaven, the location of which is not revealed, is the dwelling place of God. Jesus promised to prepare a place for true Christians in heaven (John 14:2). Heaven is also the destination of Old Testament saints who died trusting God's promise of the Redeemer (Ephesians 4:8). Whoever believes in Christ shall never perish but have eternal life (John 3:16).
The apostle John was privileged to see and report on the heavenly city (Revelation 21:10-27). John witnessed that heaven (the new earth) possesses the “glory of God” (Revelation 21:11), the very presence of God. Because heaven has no night and the Lord Himself is the light, the sun and moon are no longer needed (Revelation 22:5).
The city is filled with the brilliance of costly stones and crystal clear jasper. Heaven has twelve gates (Revelation 21:12) and twelve foundations (Revelation 21:14). The paradise of the Garden of Eden is restored: the river of the water of life flows freely and the tree of life is available once again, yielding fruit monthly with leaves that “heal the nations” (Revelation 22:1-2). However eloquent John was in his description of heaven, the reality of heaven is beyond the ability of finite man to describe (1 Corinthians 2:9).
Heaven is a place of “no mores.” There will be no more tears, no more pain, and no more sorrow (Revelation 21:4). There will be no more separation, because death will be conquered (Revelation 20:6). The best thing about heaven is the presence of our Lord and Savior (1 John 3:2). We will be face to face with the Lamb of God who loved us and sacrificed Himself so that we can enjoy His presence in heaven for eternity.
http://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-like.html
Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"
Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).
The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).
http://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html
|
| |
|
| Oct 29 @ 10:39 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
southernlass
Posts: 2,211
|
Question: "Where is hell? What is the location of hell?"
Answer: Various theories on the location of hell have been put forward. A traditional view is that hell is in the center of the earth. Others propose that hell is located in outer space in a black hole. In the Old Testament, the word translated “hell” is Sheol; in the New Testament, it’s Hades (meaning “unseen”) and Gehenna (“the Valley of Hinnom”). Sheol is also translated as “pit” and “grave.” Both Sheol and Hades refer to a temporary abode of the dead before judgment (Psalm 9:17; Revelation 1:18). Gehenna refers to an eternal state of punishment for the wicked dead (Mark 9:43).
The idea that hell is below us, perhaps in the center of the earth, comes from passages such as Luke 10:15: “And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell” (KJV). Also, in 1 Samuel 28:13-15, the medium of Endor sees the spirit of Samuel “coming up out of the ground.” We should note, however, that neither of these passages is concerned with the geographic location of hell. Capernaum’s being thrust “down” is probably a reference to their being condemned rather than a physical direction. And the medium’s vision of Samuel was just that: a vision.
In the King James Version, Ephesians 4:9 says that before Jesus ascended into heaven, “he also descended . . . into the lower parts of the earth.” Some Christians take “the lower parts of the earth” as a reference to hell, where they say Jesus spent the time between His death and resurrection. However, the New International Version gives a better translation: “he also descended to the lower, earthly regions.” This verse simply says that Jesus came to earth. It’s a reference to His incarnation, not to His location after death.
The notion that hell is somewhere in outer space, possibly in a black hole, is based on the knowledge that black holes are places of great heat and pressure from which nothing, not even light, can escape. Surprisingly, this concept of hell is presented in the 1979 Walt Disney film The Black Hole. Near the movie’s end, all the characters pass through a black hole. On the other side, the villain finds himself in a fiery place of torment, while the other characters enjoy disembodied bliss. It’s interesting that a Disney movie would include a depiction of hell, but it’s best not to base our theology on movies!
Another speculation is that the earth itself will be the “lake of fire” spoken of in Revelation 20:10-15. When the earth is destroyed by fire (2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 21:1), the theory goes, God will use that burning sphere as the everlasting place of torment for the ungodly. Again, this is mere speculation.
To sum up, Scripture does not tell us the geological (or cosmological) location of hell. Hell is a literal place of real torment, but we do not know where it is. Hell may have a physical location in this universe, or it may be in an entirely different “dimension.” Whatever the case, the location of hell is far less important than the need to avoid going there.
http://www.gotquestions.org/where-is-hell.html
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 29 @ 10:52 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
ColdinWisconsin
Posts: 9,987
|
What do you perceive heaven to be?
This life.
What do you perceive hell to be?
This life.
Do you see them as an actual place, a state of mind or something else?
This life. How we choose to live it. What we make of it.
If there is anything after this...we shall be accountable for our actions here. I firmly believe that.
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 4:11 AM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
eyesofastranger
Posts: 922
|
After 30 years of advanced computers and $zillions spent on artificial intelligence we are at a breakthrough point. We are 1/2 way to emulating an insect. Not a complex insect but maybe a fruit fly.
The mind and this life is not about sterile calculations. It's about life and it's connection to the cosmos.
What does this say about heaven and hell? The cavemen that wrote the testaments did the best they could to describe the cosmos from a caveman perspective. With no understanding of the universe they came pretty close. With your understanding of the universe you should be able to get a bead on what they saw.
Apes dogs dolphins are intermediate species. The beginning of higher emotional thought.
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 10:06 AM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
|
There are three different places, whose names have diferent meanings that were all translated to the word "hell"
Hades - The grave. The status of being dead
Gehenna - Named after a valley outside Jeruselum that was always afire. Trash and criminals were burned up there. Gehenna is a place of destruction, where people are destroyed forever in a "second death" Humans who do not receive immortality are destroyed by Gehenna
Tarterus - A place of eternal punishing for the devil, his angels, and other wicked, but already immortal creatures. Humans do not go here.
Heaven - We don't really know much about heaven except that it is blissful and happy. If you are in the book of life, you eat of the Tree of life and become immortal, then allowed to enter heaven
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 10:54 AM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
Bj864
Posts: 3,958
|
I believe heaven and hell are states of mind and that you can experience them on the physical plane as well as the higher planes.
I remember years ago (probably 20 or so) I ask my uncle (the catholic priest) what he believed heaven was. He also said a state of mind. I was really surprised as I expected him to say a place. I sure wasn't expecting him to agree with my thoughts. I just assumed anyone of the christian faith perceived heaven as a place with the streets lined in gold.
I feel like I have experienced heaven a few time already in this life and hope to do it again in the next one!  I have also experienced hell and don't look forward to that one. 
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 11:50 AM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
dizzydoll
Posts: 560
|
Eye: The mind and this life is not about sterile calculations. It's about life and it's connection to the cosmos.
Absolutely Eye. And whatever you perceive is possible and then some. Right now i believe our universe is the back end to a black hole in another universe. I believe we will live on different universes during the souls lifetime. The soul never dies.
The power of thought carries great energy, we manifest what we think, say and feel. I believe in guides who give direction when we ask. Nothing is coincidence and we are a treadmill of our own creation. Now hows that for contradiction? And i believe both 
In short, how we choose to live now will reflect in our next life.
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 12:20 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
iam01
Posts: 6,264
|
Hell is an invention of the church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc
Bishop Spong: I don’t think hell exists. I happen to believe in life after death, but I don’t think it has a thing to do with reward and punishment. Religion is always in the control business, and that’s something that people don’t really understand. It’s in the guilt producing control business, and if you have heaven as a place where you’re rewarded for your goodness and hell as a place were you’re punished for your evil then you sort of have control of the population. And so they create this fiery place which has quite literally scared the hell out of a lot of people throughout Christian history, and it is part of a control tactic.
Keith Morrison: But wait a minute, you’re saying that hell, the idea of a place under the earth or somewhere where you’re tormented for an eternity is actually an invention of the church?
Bishop Spong: Oh yes. I think the church fired its furnaces hotter than anybody else. But I think there is a sense in most religious life of reward and punishment in some form.
The church doesn't like for people to grow up because you can't control grown ups. Thats why we talk about being born again. When you're born again, you're still a child. The people don't need to be born again, they need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves in the world.
Keith Morrison: What do you make of the theology which is pretty, quite prominent these days in America which is that there is one guaranteed way not to go to hell, and that is to accept Jesus as your personal savior.
Bishop Spong: Yea, I grew up in that tradition. Every church I know claims that we are the true church and they have some ultimate authority. We have the infallible Pope, we have the inerrant Bible. The idea that the truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book is almost beyond imagination for me. I mean, God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu, a Buddhist. All of those are human systems which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition. I walk through my tradition, but I don’t believe my tradition defines God. I think it only points me to God.
-----------
break to lecture..
Bishop Spong: “You and I are emerging people, not fallen people. Our problem is not that we are born in sin. Our problem is we do not yet know how to achieve being fully human. The function of the Christ is not to rescue the sinners, but to empower you and to call you to be more deeply and fully human than you have ever realized there was the potential within you to be. Maybe salvation needs to be conveyed in terms of enhancing your humanity rather than rescuing you from it.”
----------------
Bishop Spong: Life is a startling and wondrous experience and eventually I think we are going to discover that God is unfolding through the life of our consciousness and self consciousness and is not a parent figure up in the sky. But I believe because I am related to something that is not bound by time and space that I will share in whatever God's eternity is.
 
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 12:44 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
dizzydoll
Posts: 560
|
wow doll, thats powerful
but i must ask?
under the earth
where is under the earth?  is the world flat?
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 12:49 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
iam01
Posts: 6,264
|
According to the Bible its flat.
It should look like this..
[Edited on 10/30/2009 12:55 PM]
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 12:49 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
bunnybiz
Posts: 4,758
|
since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.
I do not know where they come up with this but it goes against scriptures not the part about God but punishment. There are scriptures that written about Jesus in parables stating
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
We are finite beings on earth and will not receive unlimited punishment. Love made us weak to give into our nature do what is not right. This is how we learn. Love is not going to torture human beings forever - that is what man thought up.
Jesus came to save those that were perishing, destroy, lost. Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many go. He came for those many.
Salvation is assured for all.
God is no respecter or persons. If we are now being judge through the fire (fiery trials) the others are judge in the fire (same fire)
Sheol/Hades: state of being dead
Gehenna - Named after a valley outside Jerusalem that was always afire. Trash and criminals were burned up there. The worms fed on flesh until there were no more. This is judgment by fire in mercy and love for a limited time. The fire will not be quenched until all flesh (carnal) is consumed until what is left is spiritual. This is the process of becoming children of God. Fire is for purifying. Not pleasant but not burning of skin, torture and not forever. It is emotion/mental torment - anguish.
All have to go through this judgment. Some sooner than later. There is no one word for eternal that is a Latin word not the Greek or Hebrew. aio¯n mean age aio¯nions means age-abiding for age of ages. If work by the hour you get an hourly wage. I wouldn't pay you centuries wages.
Heaven: It is spoken in symbols, metaphors. What is the spiritual like? I do not know. I imagine we will be babies in this new spiritual realm. We will ever growing learning ... never bored. We all be One in Love.
Judgment Not a Day of Fears but Wonder He Shall Wipe Away All Tears in His Light As the Consuming Fire Transform Sons of Men into Children of God at the Father’s Delight
When All Is Said and Done and the Last Enemy Death Is Destroyed and Gone
Then Our God will be All In All And We Shall All Be in Love As One.
The Future from There I Do Now Know But Look Up in The Heavens at Stars Shine So Bright, Colors of The Rainbow Through Prism Light, Universe so Big to Explore...
The Spirit Realm will be a New Adventure Every Moment with the Father and Son to Treasure and You Know what There always Be More…
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 2:57 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
kattsmeow
Posts: 22,624
|
I honestly don't know. As a child, I thought of Heaven as us sitting on clouds with Angel wings.
Now, I don't know what it will really be like.
I do know that I don't want to find out anything about an eternal hell.
Some say hell and heaven are right now. I on the other hand know it can be better, and also a lot, lot worse.
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 3:10 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
|
Nice BB...
Who's to say that life itself isn't just an expression of a universe of energy - could life be a cosmic dream shaped from particle energy? It is perfectly possible within science - simply because we all exist.
"...and in this sleep of death what dreams may come?"
|
| |
|
| Oct 30 @ 4:31 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
dizzydoll
Posts: 560
|
CPU: "...and in this sleep of death what dreams may come?"
the possibilities are endless. This is a wonderful thread, thanks BJ
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 31 @ 5:46 AM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
eyesofastranger
Posts: 922
|
i agree Dizzy this is a great thread. Ok so we have creation. Drop your god off at the inlaws for a moment and follow along.
So creation is intending to evolve but there's EVIIIIIIL afoot. What does creation do about EVIL?
That's really the question isn't it? Creation can't let evil run amuck so there must be something like a time out or purgatory or something?
Even the cavemen wrote that we can affect creation itself with our lowly Earthly deeds.
Once you have made peace with this world your good. Oh and I don't blame the cavemen. Imagine trying to understand a world with birth defects and mental illness with no scientific understanding?? Frighting.
|
| |
|
| Oct 31 @ 6:10 AM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
|
Every energy particle in the cosmos is charged positive, negative or neutral. 'It' also interacts with adjacent energy particles to form substance and material and is in constant pulse communication with the cosmos I-O-I-O-I-O- ..........................>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - + - +... in which 'n' is a 'buffer'...
Why should our energy be any different? A positively charged person produces positive results. A negative charge produces negative results. Whatever your religion or beliefs, if you mess up the dream of life, expect a few nightmares... both here and beyond 
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 31 @ 8:42 AM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
yashaenka
Posts: 8,235
|
Lets play what if....what if all energy was one energy and what we experience is just different levels of the positive and negative as each has some of the negative and positive in it at different levels.
The flip side of that would be the null [the void] where the positive and negative null each other out to exist in perfect harmony , would that be heavenly?
|
| |
|
| Oct 31 @ 6:43 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they?
|
|
dizzydoll
Posts: 560
|
The flip side of that would be the null [the void] where the positive and negative null each other out to exist in perfect harmony , would that be heavenly?
Yes it truly would Yasha. It could be happening right now on a subconscious level all the time. I do believe on the other side we will be able to use much more of our brain consciously than we do here. Perhaps we can levitate there and Jesus brought those powers here to prepare us. Anything is possible if we keep an open mind 
|
|
| |
|
| Oct 31 @ 8:19 PM |
Heaven and/or Hell - What are they? |
|
Bj864
Posts: 3,958
|
Lets play what if....what if all energy was one energy and what we experience is just different levels of the positive and negative as each has some of the negative and positive in it at different levels.
Yes, lets do play what if!
What if you are correct and we are all inter-connected?
What if we are each striving to reach a higher level, but we are all at a different place, at this moment?
What if we are each striving for the same goal?
What do you think that goal would be?
|
| |
|
|
|
|