| Nov 3 @ 12:25 PM |
Helped By Fear
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,432
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The following is the daily devotional from OUR DAILY BREAD.
Recently the subject matter was discussed in another thread.
"Fear means different things to different people. To professional golfer Padraig Harrington, it is a motivator to help him perform his very best. In 2008, when he won both the British Open and the PGA Championship, Harrington said, 'Yes, fear is a big part of me. I'd like to say that I have all the trust and patience and I'm relaxed. No, that's not my makeup. [Fear] pushes me on. Keeps me getting to the gym. I have to work with it and use it.'
Maybe it's the fear of failure, or the fear of losing his edge, but Harrington finds fear to be a useful thing in his professional life.
The follower of Christ can also be helped by fear. We are challenged in the Scriptures to a reverential fear of God, which is the best type of fear that there is. It causes us to be concerned about disobeying Him or living in opposition to His ways. It's being in awe of our great God, bowing to His perfect will, and seeking His will for living. To that end, the proverb declares, 'The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding' (Proverbs 9:10).
By fearing God rightly, we can live wisely in an uncertain world.--Bill Crowder
God dwells in light and holiness,
In splendor and in might;
And Godly fear of His great power
Can help us do what's right. --D. De Haan
Fear God, and you'll have nothing else to fear.
Proverbs 9:1-12
"Wisdom has built her house;
she has hewn out its seven pillars.
2--She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine;
she has also set her table.
3--She has sent out her maids, and she calls
from the highest point in the city.
4--'Let all who are simple come in here!'
she says to those who lack judgement.
5--'Come, eat my food
and drink the wine I have mixed.
6--Leave your simple ways and you will live;
walk in the way of understanding.
7--'Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
8--Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
9--Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;
teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.
10--'The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11--For through me your days will be many,
and years will be added to your life.
12--If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;
if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.' "
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| Nov 3 @ 12:28 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,176
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Again your being a ultracrepidarian. Please CP us some more trivia!
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| Nov 3 @ 12:33 PM |
Helped By Fear
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joe_kerr
Posts: 781
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SoC, seriously, why do you fear God? Is there really a good reason to fear someone who supposedly loves you?
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| Nov 3 @ 12:45 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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yashaenka
Posts: 8,176
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Good question Joe is that a sign of a loving God who threaten to take revenge on your children for four generations?
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| Nov 3 @ 1:20 PM |
Helped By Fear
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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That's funny, they said pretty much the same thing in Fascist Italy... while trying to establish a Concordat between the monopoly Catholic Church and the monopoly Fascist State. The Pope would take care of religious fear and the blackshirts would take care of the temporal fear. Here was one of the main inspirations of Mussolini's union of church and state:
Consequently, Machiavelli is led to conclude that fear is always preferable to affection in subjects, just as violence and deception are superior to legality in effectively controlling them. Machiavelli observes that “one can say this in general of men: they are ungrateful, disloyal, insincere and deceitful, timid of danger and avid of profit…. Love is a bond of obligation which these miserable creatures break whenever it suits them to do so; but fear holds them fast by a dread of punishment that never passes” (Machiavelli 1965, 62; translation altered). From: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/machiavelli/ - that's a University that writes books. You should read one of theirs sometime.
Is fear really a wonderful thing? How well did it work in Nazi Germany? I guess all the communists and Jews were afraid, but that's the idea now, isn't it? To make them afraid so their souls can be saved? There's nothing like a furnace to put the fear of hellfire into the unbelievers. Is that reverential enough?
Or were you thinking of something scarier?
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| Nov 3 @ 2:00 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,432
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He loves me. He is generous with His love for me.
He is an awesome God. His power and His might are matchless.
I am gradually learning more about Him. I have learned that great is His love.
One way He has of expressing His love is through blessings.
Through the Bible, (which He has made available to us so that we can understand Him more completely), He has revealed many things about Himself.
Among these revelations is that His love is something we are given at birth. As we develop and age, we are presented with many opportunities to express our love for Him.
By becoming more familiar with the Bible, we are able to learn more about Him.
We are able to learn more about what pleases HIm.
We are also able to learn more about what He does not like.
He is much more patient with us than even the most patient human father. At times His great patience stays His hand for our sake. Often we do not receive the penalty due our disobedience.
It is my understanding that this is due to His grace. But I'd rather not speak too deeply about His grace right now. A full explanation is lengthy. And I'm not too sure that I'd do too good a job at explaining it. 
So He does not give us what our sins, (and our disobedience to Him), deserves.
He is patient.
He is kind.
But His patience will eventually be trumped by His Holiness.
He will overlook many of our sins while we live. (Many of these sins are obvious.) But each of us will stand before Him after the death of our bodies.
I am not really afraid of God. I am confident that after my body dies, His judgement will go well for me.
But I do fear His anger. I do fear the potential fury He is capable of.
 I do not fear that I will ever be the target of His anger; I try to be obedient to Him. But I certainly do fear the rage He is capable of producing.
I fear the loss of His love. I have become spoiled by the generosity of His blessings to me. He has given me an excellent life. And it just keeps getting better and better. 
On a more personal note, His slow but gradual healing continually brings my body back to good physical health.
Most days after I wake up and do my morning exercises, not too long after having a shower, I am gratified to learn of an improvement in my balance or stability. 
Most mornings I'm given a rush of joy as I note the new status of my physical shell.
I fear the absence of this joy He fills me with.
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| Nov 3 @ 2:17 PM |
Helped By Fear
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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If you love Him, why do you need fear, and why do you say He needs fear? 
Oh I get it. Others - false and unafraid people who need saving - should be equally afraid. It's important for other people to be as afraid as you are, otherwise they will fall into hell. If they are frightened enough, this will take them into heaven, is that right?
It is great that you have so much reverent fear and that you are very happy that way. So why the need to frighten others? Do you instil equal reverence in the children in your care? It's very important for all to feel equally afraid, is it not? Lots of scary pictures and descriptions of hell might help. Halloween is good for that. Kids love scary stories.
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| Nov 3 @ 2:36 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,432
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Sorry CPU. It wasn't my intention to say, (or imply), that He needs fear.
Where did I say that??
Why do you belabour a fear of Him??
It is by having a healthy fear of what could potentially happen if you stray too far off-course, that the person takes care to not be disobedient to Him. (For fear of what might happen.)
So no, you are incorrect.
At school, I am not a disciplinarian. I know that I am only a volunteer. I know that I was never hired to perform other teaching tasks. I know my place.
Why are you being so silly? On several occasions I have mentioned that I do not speak about Christianity there. I am only an unpaid helper.
I read books with children and I present them with an example of a man living in our society who is joyful most of the time.
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| Nov 3 @ 2:53 PM |
Helped By Fear
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joe_kerr
Posts: 781
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SoC, several times in the New Testement it likens a relationship with Jesus as that of a husband and wife. When you speak of fearing God, how does that play into the scenario of Jesus being the bridegroom and Christians being the bride? Should the bride fear the husband? And if so, why?
On a more personal note, His slow but gradual healing continually brings my body back to good physical health.
How do you distinguish this from the body simply following it's own normal process of healing?
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| Nov 3 @ 2:55 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,021
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The only thing we have to fear is our own fears.
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| Nov 3 @ 3:05 PM |
Helped By Fear
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joe_kerr
Posts: 781
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I agree.
Fear is an extremely powerful motivator, and I've found that most fears are completely unwarranted. Take for instance speaking ones mind. Many won't speak up simply because they fear they may be wrong and may end up looking foolish. They're more concerned about their appearance to others than they are being true to themselves. Why not speak up? If you're wrong, you're wrong. Take it as a learning experience and nothing more and leave it at that.
Fear can also be very beneficial. A healthy dose of fear will keep us away coiled rattlesnake that's ready to strike if you get too close.
But to have fear in what's supposed to be a loving relationship? How is that possible? Is a true relationship, a healthy relationship, based upon fear? I don't think so.
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| Nov 3 @ 3:11 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,600
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But to have fear in what's supposed to be a loving relationship? How is that possible? Is a true relationship, a healthy relationship, based upon fear? I don't think so.
I'd have to agree on that one. God as a parent, disciplining us for our own goods, and eventually punishing us with eternal torment, is supposed to be an ideal father figure. If mine had been like that, I'd have left home not long after I learned to walk.
My own personal mental image of God bears no resemblance to that one but that's part of why I can't believe in revealed religion.
JMHO as usual.
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| Nov 3 @ 3:14 PM |
Helped By Fear
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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Why do you belabour a fear of Him Well you started a thread about how important it is to have "fear of His great power."
I'm exploring the extent to which you think that is necessary - and questioning that it is necessary at all. I am concerned about the idea that people need fear and I wonder what sort of philosophy would feel the need to spread such an idea. I think there is enough fear in the world without anything contributing to it.
Your quote says that fear is the beginning of wisdom. Which means that anyone who is not afraid is not very wise.
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| Nov 3 @ 3:27 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,432
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No. Of course not Heaven.
Leave out the "punishing us with eternal torment".
Were you never gently disciplined as a child?
Were you never scolded?
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| Nov 3 @ 3:32 PM |
Helped By Fear
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alivenwell351
Posts: 3,005
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It is by having a healthy fear of what could potentially happen if you stray too far off-course................
Frankly, I wonder sometimes if the greatest fear many believers have is that every so often because they have these bouts of lucidity and realize that they're banking their entire existence on teachings from a book that's at best confusing & inconsistent and at worst a man made myth, it briefly makes sense to them that they're very likely wrong.
A lot of believer posts on here really do come across as whistling past the graveyard. Unresolved internal conflict can be a real bitch until/unless one can confront it head on objectively. Take it from who has been down that road, it's the only logical thing to do.
I mean if you're right and your beliefs are strong, you'll come away from objective self analysis still believing. I think your greatest fear though just might be that your objective self analysis will show you in no uncertain terms what so many of you already fear...that you've wasted your lives believing in man made fantasy...and even worse, letting the fear of not following that fantasy control your lives!!
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| Nov 3 @ 3:55 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 1,092
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I think the fear of God was best illustrated by the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and no, I don't mean all the Nazis that got killed, I mean Indiana and Marion that were tied to the post. They screamed in fear of the prescence of God.
There are different kinds of fear really. There was a study of the different kinds of fear in the "Sergesen Experiment" that was very interesting. Stephen King touched on the same thing in "Danse Macbre" They studied the various kinds of fear, fear of pain, fear of death, etc, both sources came to the conclusion that the scariest was terror, or fear of the unknown.
I think the fear of God would be the greatest. The magnitude of that prescence would just be so overwhelming. Paul, on the road to Damascus fell to the ground in God's prescence and was changed forever.
I think it is like the feeling you get when you are standing next to a race car that is revving and you can feel the vibrations through your body. The magnitude of the power is scary even though, intellectually, you don't think it is going to hurt you. That is how I see God as being scary. Not a fear that you are going to be hurt, but just the awe inspiring sense of power you get.
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| Nov 3 @ 4:23 PM |
Helped By Fear
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,600
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Were you never gently disciplined as a child?
Were you never scolded?
Did the bible ever speak of gently disciplining? I must have missed it, if so. It's certainly not what I've heard discussed by most in here, amid the eternal debate over who's saved and who isn't.
I'll freely admit to having spanked my sons, and occasionally hard enough that I felt bad about it later (although I punched my fist into a wall rather than hit him, when my older son opened the hall door and the baby crawled out and fell two steps). The greater the danger to them, the greater my fear for them. I know that fear quite well...but not fear of my father.
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| Nov 3 @ 4:54 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,432
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Matthew 11:25-- "At that time Jesus said, 'I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26--Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure. 27--All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. 28--Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29--Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30--For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.'
Proverbs 3:11--"My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline
and do not resent His rebuke. 12--because the Lord disciplines those He love,
as a Father the son He delights in."
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| Nov 3 @ 5:09 PM |
Helped By Fear
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oct_cat
Posts: 1,374
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BandTMom: The only thing we have to fear is our own fears. 
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| Nov 3 @ 5:12 PM |
Helped By Fear |
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uncrazy
Posts: 2,382
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Fear is imperfect spiritual longings for safety.
Sound minds will fear the behavior of the God in the holy books. Children see this clearly until we tell them how we have modified our rational thinking processes. If we tell them enough that this loving God will punish them if they don't believe us...some will adapt our beliefs without thinking. We can then relieve God of this responsibility by talking about God's gentle disciplines, or how we bring it on ourselves...the perfect circular reasoning.
I am sure that all the tribes and nations defeated in Joshua and Samuel thought God's loving discipline was gentle. The Albigensians too...with priests saying kill them all, for God knows his own and will sort them out. This cancer still exists within the minds and hearts of people of the book. Until it is owned for what it was, nothing can change, and a relapse will remain possible.
I will relook the bible text that has God saying he brings us relief while he hold us in the catastrophe of his making. This shows a partial care and concern in keeping us just enough alive to endure the punishment.
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