| Nov 23, 2009 @ 1:18 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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Beyond My Lai : New Revelations of Vietnam Atrocities
How long does it take the US government to release documentation about atrocities in which US military forces killed unarmed civilians, women and children? In the case of Vietnam, it's taken almost 40 years. The 1968 My Lai massacre became public in 1969, but officials at the time said My Lai was an "isolated incident"--the same thing we hear about atrocities today in Iraq and elsewhere. After that, GIs described dozens of other My Lai-style atrocities in which they said they had taken part. Those GIs were called liars and traitors, and no one was ever punished for any of the events they described.
Now the Los Angeles Times has published a page one story, "Vietnam Horrors: Darkest Yet," based on official government documents detailing 320 incidents of Vietnam war atrocities that were confirmed by army investigators. The documentation, according to the Times, comes from "a once-secret archive assembled by a Pentagon task force in the early 1970s." This "Vietnam War Crimes Working Group" archive, 9,000 pages long, was discovered by Nick Turse, who was doing research for a Ph.D. dissertation as a student at Columbia University. Turse shares the byline on the Times report with staff writer Deborah Nelson.
The stories are terrible. "Kill anything that moves" – that's what one company of American soldiers was told when they set out on a sweep of the rice paddies on Vietnam's central coast in February 1968, according to Jamie Henry, at the time a 20-year old medic. So they shot and killed 19 unarmed civilians, women and children. When Henry got home to California, he held a news conference describing the slaughter, but there was no official response. Now we learn that the army did investigate his report -- and concluded it was accurate – but did nothing to punish the guilty.
The official line that abuses were "confined to a few rogue units" is demolished by the material Turse discovered. Atrocities were committed, according to the Times, by "every army division that operated in Vietnam." They found a pattern of "recurrent attacks on ordinary Vietnamese--families in their homes, farmers in rice paddies, teenagers out fishing," who were "murdered, raped and tortured with impunity" by American soldiers.
Military investigators documented seven large-scale massacres between 1967 and 1971 in which at least 137 civilians were killed. They described 78 other attacks on civilian noncombatants in which US troops killed at least 57, wounded 56 and sexually assaulted 15. They described 141 incidents of torture of civilians, including the use of electric shock.
The evidence against 203 soldiers was strong enough for the military to bring formal charges of war crimes. According to the Times investigation, 57 were court-martialed and 23 convicted – about ten percent. Fourteen were sentenced to prison for terms ranging from six months to 20 years, but most appealed and won significant reductions. The longest sentence, 20 years, went to an interrogator convicted of "committing indecent acts on a 13 year old girl in an interrogation hut." He served only six months.
Army investigators came to no finding about 500 other reports of atrocities, some of which described extensive killing. One sergeant reported in a 1970 letter about a pattern of American soldiers murdering civilians in the Mekong Delta in 1970. "I am trying to tell you about 120-150 murders, or a My Lay [sic] each month for over a year," he wrote. The Times reported that "there is no evidence in the files that his complaint was investigated further." The extensive LA Times report includes details about particular incidents and online links to documents including statements by participants in atrocities and a memo from White House counsel John Dean.
Of course this archive deals only with Vietnam atrocities that the army investigated. Doubtlessly hundreds, perhaps thousands of other incidents were not reported – for example former Senator Bob Kerrey's role in killing unarmed Vietnamese villagers in the Mekong Delta in 1969, first reported in 2001.  Onward Christian Soldiers From the Nation http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/109065
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 1:28 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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Some history U.S. War in Vietnam
1945: Ho Chi Minh unifies Vietnam.
1946: Viet Minh, Vietnamese nationalists, attack French colonial forces in Hanoi.
1948: US begins funding French war against the Viet Minh.
1954: French defeat at Dien Bien Phu.
1955: Ngo Dinh Diem, aided by the US, takes control of Saigon in South Vietnam and establishes the Republic of Vietnam. US advisors begin training Vietnamese army.
1963: Diem assassinated. 16,000 US advisors in Vietnam.
1964: Gulf of Tonkin Resolution: After alleged torpedo attack on US war ships, Congress supplies President Johnson with a "blank check" to declare war on North Vietnam.
1965: US begins bombing North Vietnam, Operation Rolling Thunder. Johnson commits 185,000 American troops.
1968: Tet Offensive: Viet Minh attack South Vietnamese provincial capitals belying American belief that the war is drawing to a close. US launches brutal counterattack. US troops execute over 200 men, women and children in the village of My Lai. The massacre is captured by an army photographer. US troops in Vietnam peak at 536,000.
1969: President Nixon endorses "Vietnamization" of the war, replacing returning US troops with South Vietnamese forces and secretly intensifying bombing of North Vietnam and Viet Minh supply lines inside Cambodia. Marines secretly invade Laos. US troops decline to 475,000.
1970: US troops invade Cambodia on April 30. Congress later bans US combat forces in Cambodia and Laos.
1971: South Vietnamese troops invade Laos.
1972: Hanoi launches Spring Offensive. US mines Haiphong Harbor and intensifies bombing of North Vietnam.
1973: Peace treaty signed between US, South Vietnam, and North Vietnam. Congress bans bombing of Cambodia, bans military expenditures anywhere in Indochina, and passes War Powers Act, requiring the President to consult Congress before committing troops. North Vietnamese force US military out of South Vietnam.
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 1:30 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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dizzydoll
Posts: 3,142
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I cant stay this is very depressing for someone who is anti-war 
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 1:32 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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I agree no one ever wins a war, not really
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 1:32 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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southernlass
Posts: 2,989
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I'm not sure that ya'll are furthering this thread along in a valid fashion. Essentially, you're having a pissing contest that's led you no closer to the obvious conclusion which I already discussed.
Both atheism and Christianity have their psychotics. All of my sources state that atheism is the bloodier belief system, as it has killed more men than Christianity has, statistics-wise.
Rebut this with evidence or accept it. THAT is the point of this thread. Those who mass murdered millions were ATHEIST.
No longer should we have to read written on our screens day after day here, that Christianity has killed millions so it is "poison dogma," etc. Out of the same keyboard that comes this tripe, there should also be mention of the unbelief/atheism that killed even more millions. I am sick and tired of these lies being spread about, that claim that Christianity is the only TOXIC DOGMA. Obviously, from the numbers I've presented and the account of even an atheist himself, atheist history has its own toxic, lethal dogma.
Admit that this is the truth. Concede that atheism killed more than Christianity did. And if you can't, you've got a problem because you're in denial and you just want to spout useless INACCURATE hyperbole and rhetoric to further your bigotry and prejudice against Christianity and Christians. Until you can realize what even Richard Dawkins understands, that it's not the beliefs that cause psychopaths, you're hopelessly locked into your own psychosis of hatred and dislike for something you don't understand.
(proverbial you)
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 1:33 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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Jankia
Posts: 12,603
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yash- 25,000 was a drop in the bucket. So your saying that out of 2.7 million military personnel in that war the 58,000 killed is only a drop in the bucket as well?
Hardly
Have you ever been in one? You know as well as alivenwell does that I havent any military expierience at all,and never said I did.If that makes me a lower citizen to either of you so be it.
Consider it as foolish as my thinking would be if I thought you were both lower citizens because you havent provided as much food for this country in your lifetimes as I have in one day.
Unless youve never had an opinion about the cost of food at the grocery...for me to say youve no right to because youve never put an effort into producing it,is as stupid as saying Ive no right to be opinionated about what Ive never done either.
Do people that arent fighting in a war personally have no right to protest it?
Not in America...bub. 
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 2:10 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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So your saying that out of 2.7 million military personnel in that war the 58,000 killed is only a drop in the bucket as well? My comment said by comparison there was only few few soldiers in Cambodia compared to Vietnam.
The casualties we suffered there has nothing to do with that. All 58k were too much for to little but the bigger question is this. Subject: Re: How many people died in the Vietnam War?
Answered By: alexander-ga on 25 Apr 2002 05:46 PDT
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
Quick answer: Approximately 5.4 million total.
Regarding American casualties, see http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.htm :
The official number is 58,148 killed during service. An additional 114
were captured and died in captivity.
In the 5 years following the war, the suicide rate of veterans was 1.7
times the non-Veteran population, yielding an estimate of 9,000
suicides as a direct result of the war. After 5 years, suicide rates
fall back in line with the general population.
(Testimony by Dr. Houk, Oversight on Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder,
14 July 1988 page 17, Hearing before the Committee on Veterans'
Affairs United States Senate one hundredth Congress second session.
Also "Estimating the Number of Suicides Among Vietnam Veterans" (Am J
Psychiatry 147, 6 June 1990 pages 772-776)
A total of approximately 67,000 Americans.
Also on the American "side" were 223,748 South Vietnamese soldiers
killed, as well as 5,282 of other nationalities. (See
http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html for the breakdown)
A total of approximately 300,000 so far...
Vietnamese casualties are far less specific, and they were
deliberately falsified prior to 1995, leading to some of the
confusion. According to the Agence France Presse (French Press Agency)
as reported on http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html , "...the true
civilian casualties of the Vietnam War were 2,000,000 in the north,
and 2,000,000 in the south. Military casualties were 1.1 million
killed and 600,000 wounded in 21 years of war. These figures were
deliberately falsified during the war by the North Vietnamese
Communists to avoid demoralizing the population."
So approximately 5.1 million total Vietnamese casualites.
And a grand total of approximately 5.4 million. All for what?
Do people that arent fighting in a war personally have no right to protest it?
I just wish the civilians would have protested louder sooner.
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 2:19 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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The bloody truth is we do not know the details of actual deaths caused by Atheist nor Christian it is all estimates. But WWII and the Germans fall into the Christian camp and Stalin never did anything because of Atheism he did it for his own paranoia the atrocities he committed can not be said to have occurred in the name of Atheism.
If Christianity did their atrocities in the modern era the numbers of deaths would have been a 1,000 larger, why there would have been more people and the efficiency of killing would also be there for them to use.
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 3:10 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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dizzydoll
Posts: 3,142
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A moment silence for all those who have fallen
Tremeloes - Silence is Golden
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 3:23 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,676
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The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is the Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials? Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still haunts the liberal imagination.
I COME FROM A FAMILY CALLED THE COLLINS. Some of them on this side of the Atlantic Ocean from England have changed their name to Todd back prior to the Civil War. That's not to say that all Collins are Todds or the family that I came from, but this family brought Witchcraft to the United States.
LET ME QUICKLY REMIND YOU, NO WITCHES WERE EXECUTED IN SALEM. There will be a book coming out shortly on this from Chick Publications. Except for one prostitute, everybody executed in Salem were Christians, and they were tried and convicted by a jury and by a pastor who was not a pastor but a slave trader hired by the Collins. The church was built by the Collins and the jury were all members of the Collins' church. Needles to say, they weren't Christians, they were Witches. We went back there and researched it!
http://www.kt70.com/~jamesjpn/articles/john_todd_and_the_illuminati.htm
Now we can stop beating that dead horse...the Christians never murdered anyone..and a true believer would never do that in the first place..unless attacked..they will defend themselves..
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 3:26 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,676
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I do know that the Christian churches reach out to the poor all across the world..they feed, clothe them..and teach them to 'fish' for themselves...Good works...Good religion...
Even the Muslims who live amongst the Christians call their religion..."Good Religion"...
Is there an atheist program like this? Just curious.
And as far as this Inquisition you speak of....it was started by the Muslims attacking the Catholics unprovoked....they started it........
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 3:42 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,676
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The bloody truth is we do not know the details of actual deaths caused by Atheist nor Christian it is all estimates. But WWII and the Germans fall into the Christian camp and Stalin never did anything because of Atheism he did it for his own paranoia the atrocities he committed can not be said to have occurred in the name of Atheism.
This is incorrect....Hitler followed the Thule society..a satanic group....Stalin was Anti Christian...and atheist......He did what he did..because he does not believe in God..therefore..he has no boundaries...and he does what he pleases..as he is his own God..
And thats the danger of atheism...they have no rules...no boundaries...Not saying all are bad people because they are not..I know wonderful atheists..personally...but there can be that splinter group of people who posses no boundaries..
I know you will try to lump in some psycho that claims Christianity..but the fact remains....if you are truly a follower of Christ...the way the Bible depicts..you are not able to do these sorts of things..
there are many impostors..
Just because you walk into a garage..it does not make you a car......
[Edited on 11/23/2009 3:56 PM]
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 3:55 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,676
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Matt 7:21-27
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock
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26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
(NIV)
There are many impostors...what better way for Satan to discredit the church than to infiltrate it with 'his people'...doing bad things..in the name of God...Or professing God..when its really not the one true God..but only an idol...a fake God...such as in the muslim religion...they worship the Moon God...Not the god of the Jews or the Christians...
The satans call theirs God..but its satan..
Many talk about God..but there are many fake gods in the world...
Which nation has been the most successful in all of time?...the most civilized..? Which nation is the world trying to get into?
Look at those other religions..their nations are a mess..and the people are poor and treated very badly....there is no sign in those countries of a loving God...But there is here in America...
But we have one problem......the Christians are fallling away..they have become lazy and lethargic...not following the faith...they have fell OUT of their religion..they are NOT following God anymore..
The Bible said that When the people who are called by his name..REPENT..and give up their evil ways...He will come and heal our land...
The people of America are now...divorcing...lying...pornography...fornicating...not caring for their children...etc...
Its true..alot of Christians are giving a very bad example of what it is to be a Christian..and the reality of that lifestyle....they have not seeked the truth...and do not realize its reality...They went half way...but failed to make the entire journey....as of yet....there is still time for all...
NO ONE WAS BORN FINISHED! So we cannot judge a person or predict where they will end up...Its between them and God....
It is good to point out destructive behavior though..thats an act of love.
I beleive this is why America..when she was mostly Christian..was blessed by God..and thats why we became so great...and went all over the earth helping others..and teaching the Bible...and now that many are not following the faith...we are 'reaping what we have sewn."...
Parents are not raising their children anymore...they are not protecting them..they are divorcing...living the 'worldly life'....they are not doing their Godly duty...so now..the next generation..is out of control..and becoming godless....without foundation..without boundaries....its sad...
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| Nov 23, 2009 @ 4:27 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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Deborah551
Posts: 1,519
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What does firsthand mean? It should mean that it's your experience, not Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Samuel, David, Saul etc. experience. Just reading the Bible doesn't make it first hand experience. Experiencing it yourself makes it first hand.
A voice in the head? Intrusive and/or loud thoughts? A feeling that one is a human Ouija board? Well, how else can Christians know what God wants them to do? I mean, if they all killed their first born son as God did, or wiped out their neighbors whose property they wanted as God said to do in OT, we'd all be dead.
Picking up Jesus hitchhiking on the road as Hunt did? A close encounter of the third kind? How come everyone seems to know what Jesus looked like when there are no painting, pictures, reliefs, graffiti, etc of him? Maybe the 3rd kind of encounter was the trinity?
Consider it as foolish as my thinking would be if I thought you were both lower citizens because you havent provided as much food for this country in your lifetimes as I have in one day.
Unless youve never had an opinion about the cost of food at the grocery...for me to say youve no right to because youve never put an effort into producing it,is as stupid as saying Ive no right to be opinionated about what Ive never done either. I can agree with you to a certain extant, Jankia. I certainly judged the leaders and soldiers in Germany who killed civilians for no other reason than that they were Jews. But, I won't judge the men in this country who had to kill under extreme circumstances I know nothing about. Most American soldiers, I believe, are pretty decent people put in some hard circumstances I don't understand.
[Edited on 11/23/2009 4:33 PM]
[Edited on 11/23/2009 4:50 PM]
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| Nov 25, 2009 @ 2:04 AM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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Angel54214
Posts: 19,005
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How come everyone seems to know what Jesus looked like when there are no painting, pictures, reliefs, graffiti, etc of him? Maybe the 3rd kind of encounter was the trinity?
Not many are aware that Luke was also an artist...he painted a portrait of Jesus in the 2nd Century...
Back on Topic:
For those not familiar with the Biblical and outside Biblical Empire wars, here's one of the most bloodiest Empires that ever existed...The Assyrians!
http://www.bible-lands.info/Lachish.htm#REFERENCES%20TO%20LACHISH%20IN%20THE%20BIBLE
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| Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:01 AM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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edthepoet
Posts: 146
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I would have to agree with Southern on basis of her topic, Atheists do seem to get a free pass for all the murdering they have done throughout history.
It's our human nature to possess things, land and the minds of other to control, be it for a religious purpose or not.
Both sides justify their reasons for their horrible acts, that doesn't mean it was justice.
To paint Atheists as only kind gentle sweet people is quite naive, history have shown us that they are equally as evil as the religious side has overtime.
Cut and paste all you want, the truth of the matter is that we as human are quite dangerous with or without religion.
First, to obtain power, one must subdue,kill, conquer and then justify their action to get power, then to keep it, they must repeat the cycle over and over.
Once the power is gone from one side, the other side absorb the same thinking to keep their new found powers.
This is the simple truth which can't be deny.
Here's the proof, when this planet was formed, there wasn't any deeds given to any countries, each was taken with violent and bloodshed, only then were the deeds handed out by those who conquered.
As each side won or lost throughout history has the name of the deed owner changed.
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| Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:07 AM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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iam01
Posts: 7,573
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Both sides justify their reasons for their horrible acts, that doesn't mean it was justice.
To paint Atheists as only kind gentle sweet people is quite naive, history have shown us that they are equally as evil as the religious side has overtime.
Cut and paste all you want, the truth of the matter is that we as human are quite dangerous with or without religion.
This paints a very disparaging image of religion pretending to be the high road to morality. We know it isn't. We know religion has often been the excuse for such horrifying atrocities known to mankind. Without religion, we would still have wars and perhaps atrocities but far fewer. We would likely not have had 6,000,000 Jews exterminated in one single war if religion wasn't such a motivating force. We would obviously not have had the Crusades or Inquisitions or any of the Holy Wars. We would probably have less racism too. The fact is, religion remains a polarizing force in the world and doesn't compromise since each religion has totalitarian claims. Its an unreasonable ideology.
[Edited on 11/25/2009 11:16 AM]
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| Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:30 AM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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edthepoet
Posts: 146
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History has proven religious groups to have committed outrageous dehumanized act upon their own and to others.
The thread is about Atheists not accepting or acknowledging their same morbid actions.
No one can say that Atheists haven't done their share as well,right?
So now it's just a matter of how we count and how both sides can justify their despicable actions throughout history, rather then the truth.
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| Nov 25, 2009 @ 11:58 AM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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Atheism as a term is owned by Monotheism as a term. The term Atheist simply does not apply outside of monotheism so maybe we are better off without both of those terms after all Monotheism between Islam and Christian only apply to 2 / 7th of the world population but attempts to dictate to the other 5 / 7th of the people of the world.
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| Nov 25, 2009 @ 12:09 PM |
Atheism's bloody history of mass murder |
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edthepoet
Posts: 146
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I am fine with saying non- religious groups have murdered millions of people throughout history as well.
Changing the name or term doesn't bring back any of those people back from the dead,nor does it justify their actions.
All groups attempt to gain powers, through killing and fear.
The USA did it with Iraq and many other wars, though to be fair to US, other countries have done it as well. The common theme is always the same no matter what country it is, Power.
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