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| Jun 9, 2006 @ 7:58 AM |
Death, pain and suffering
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bevrice
Posts: 11,145
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So many have wondered on here why God allows death, pain and suffering.
God created man to have a perfect beautiful life, no death, no illness, no pain and no suffering. Man brought all of this into the world in the Garden of Eden, you know.
God gave His son that we might have the Holy Spirit and every tool that we need to defeat death, pain and suffering, but because of man's fall, we have to receive Jesus as Lord and his sacrifice for us in order to get the baptism of the Holy Spirit, His indwelling and the power over all these things.
So does God allow all of this? No, man does. Jesus gives every man a way out of all of it. Man has only to receive and believe.
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| Jun 9, 2006 @ 10:30 AM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,239
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Simple and true. 
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| Jun 9, 2006 @ 12:01 PM |
Death, pain and suffering
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omkeerpunt
Posts: 511
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Why pain and suffering in this world/life? I still dont know the answer but here is my take on it.
There has been a lot of pain and suffering in my family over a long period of time starting in march 1979. It was as if our little world of peace and prosperity simply fell apart then and for the next 20 years it couldnt quite find its feet again. Several people close to us died, we suffered physically and emotional trauma through several events and the grand life we lived earlier seemed totally shattered. Three of us survived this 20 year period, went through all the painfull events together but experienced it differently. All three of us are now believers but came to the same conclusion in different ways based on different turningpoints and we each have a different take on this question. It varies from my willingness to accept that a loving God did this to me, my sister's willingness to accept that a loving God used this and my mothers unwillingness to accept that this was in any way from a loving God.
I can see that many of you are also unwilling to accept pain and suffering as part of God's plan and many dont accept that it could be from an evil source either. I dont have the answer but there was a day in my life that stands out above most.
This was another day in a new period of suffering and I was emotionally crushed at the time that I drove past the place where my family was killed a year earlier. As always I stopped at the site and started searching for anything that would give me a clue as to what or why, and how was I really involved in this event that shook the foundations of my life. Something happened to me that day because as if in a dream I found myself falling down on my knees and praising Him for what He gave me. After that day this place lost its grip on me and I never had the same feeling of horror when passing it. This day was also marked by several miracles that I witnessed and my only envolvement in any of them was that I prayed and witnessed. In my mind lived the knowledge that He gave me more than He took away.
I have previously stated that when I need an answer from God it will come to me. In the week after this day I found an old book on religion and the only part I ever read from this book was where the author suggested that we try to see ourselves from Gods perspective. This will mean that you would have to go and search for what Gods perspective is. In the bible I found that God is saddened by someone that turns away from Him and rejoices for everyone that returns. In that car a year earlier, I was the only one that had turned away from him and I miraculously survived to be given a second chance at LIFE and with that I mean God.
Was the pain and suffering of many years just about the three of us? I dont think so since many other people witnessed this and our response to it. I believe many people were touched in some way by what happened to us and I am happy to have been a tool in His hand. And at the end of it life is good - really good because I am at peace with God.
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| Jun 9, 2006 @ 12:59 PM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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chinabull2000
Posts: 7,012
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I understand this way of thinking, the logic behind it and the ideology, but it always seems so easy for someone with "faith" to blame mankind for all things bad, and to thank God for all things good.
Man has only to receive and believe. Unfortunately this is not true, IMO, because there are many people with "faith" who are truly not good people.
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| Jun 9, 2006 @ 1:28 PM |
Death, pain and suffering
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,205
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I guess I don't understand the perspective here. Since I don't really believe that God created us as perfect beings, I don't blame God or man (except in two cases, two men) for the things that have happened to me in my life...along the way they've included paralysis, rape, abuse, longterm illness of both my parents and bearing and raising a multiply handicapped son. My perspective was that sh1t happens, deal with it. A lot of good people helped me get through it, and oddly enough, not all of them were religious, but all were humane. I've tried to do the same at every opportunity, not because of a belief in a reward, or even in karma, but because helping others over rough spots feels good, and because of an ultimate belief that the world we get is the world we've made...we each contribute to making it better or worse, regardless of what we believe in, or don't.
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| Jun 9, 2006 @ 3:14 PM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,243
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Something happened to me that day because as if in a dream I found myself falling down on my knees and praising Him for what He gave me. After that day this place lost its grip on me and I never had the same feeling of horror when passing it. This day was also marked by several miracles that I witnessed and my only envolvement in any of them was that I prayed and witnessed. In my mind lived the knowledge that He gave me more than He took away.
In some ways, I had a similar experience. I can't say that God, in the traditional sense, entered into it, but I was imbued with a sense of peace..."He gave me more than He took away" -- again, traditionally, I can't identify it as "He"; but wow, I certainly know and understand what you mean.
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| Jun 9, 2006 @ 8:02 PM |
Death, pain and suffering
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bevrice
Posts: 11,145
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No, God gave man free choice, I am sure He knew what would happen if man chose this way or that way, but the final choice belonged to Adam and Eve, you know.
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| Jun 14, 2006 @ 11:31 AM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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I don't believe in God at all. I do believe there is a higher power and that destiny is laid out way before we get "here".
Because I believe in destiny, it's much easier for me to understand (to my ability) why children die, why people die, why bad things happen to good people, and I do actually see a fair bit of it on a daily basis.
I think it's actually unfair to blame "humankind" for those things that happen unless it's a direct result of their actions which caused it and even then only by accident.
This doesn't absolve us of our responsibility but it makes it easier to understand than something that isn't tangible to me
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| Jun 14, 2006 @ 11:49 AM |
Death, pain and suffering
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,239
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I don't believe in God at all. I do believe there is a higher power and that destiny is laid out way before we get "here".
So, who or what is this higher power??
Destiny? He knows every hair on our head it says.
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| Jun 14, 2006 @ 9:03 PM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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irish20835
Posts: 1,224
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thats the whole Christian idea of pre destination ...so ya may not belive in God but yet you belive in something ......remember don't ever be luke warm ......
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 12:11 AM |
Death, pain and suffering
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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So, who or what is this higher power??
Destiny? He knows every hair on our head it says
My higher power is an entity. It has no name and I don't refer to it as "god". Note I don't capitalize the "g" in god because it has no meaning for me. If I were to try and explain what that higher power is for me, it would have to include a true unblemished source of energy and truth that will never hurt or lie to me. It won't play headgames and lead me astray or punish me for not doing what some book says. The "price" is a real life lesson in some form. And it's not punitive or selfish in nature but a life lesson. I find certain parts of the bible to be punitive and unenlightened towards true compassion and forgiveness. Being punished because some couple ate an apple to me, seems punitive. Not accepting homosexuality and viewing it as a sin seems to lack compassion and understanding and acceptance to me. Please don't take offense at that but it is how I feel. My beliefs are in a "natural real time source" as opposed to something that is written and very debatable, and has no meaning to me in my current life.
Destiny? Is not an "it" or a "he". It is future, fate or whatever you would like to call it but it accounts partly for why we have "deja vu". It accounts for why children die and in my mind, is a much more accountable solid manner than "man's sins" made this child die. Life is pre-ordained and the only trick is figuring out the "lessons" we are supposed to know.
Sometimes we have to repeat these lessons a few times before we figure out their true meaning. So some people will have a very hard life because they haven't clued in to the "bigger meaning" yet. They continue to do the same things over and over without taking the hint that it's not working out so they should change it. Usually they are hurting themselves or someone else. This becomes "karma" and it repeats itself until you stop the selfish and start to give.
These are my beliefs.....and one of the hardest things I find about discussing "spirituality" or "beliefs" with other people, especially very religous people, is that they don't respect my spirituality. Which is just as strong honest and real to me as theirs is to them.
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 10:03 AM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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Bev,
No, God gave man free choice, I am sure He knew what would happen if man chose this way or that way, but the final choice belonged to Adam and Eve, you know.
Wrong again Bev, the final choice belongs to us, and that is what we will be judged on.
Peace
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 11:36 AM |
Death, pain and suffering
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,239
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Thank you Wicked. I was just curious thats all and now I understand what you believe.
Some times, I am just like a cat,,,,,curioustiy ya know..... 
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 2:00 PM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,145
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You will be judged only if you are not covered by the blood of Jesus. If you are written in the Lamb's book of life, you are not judged, he took that judgement for you, don't you see?
We have not our own righteousness, which is as filthy rags, but the righteousness of Christ.
God looks upon us and sees not us nor our sin, He sees His son and his son's blood.
Now see sail you are the one who preaches hell and damnation. Our salvation is secure in his hands, in his love, and this is what his love is all about.
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 5:31 PM |
Death, pain and suffering
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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I gotta be covered in blood?
That sounds....
Can someone please explain this to me in English?
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 5:33 PM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,239
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Wicked, being washed in the blood means that when Jesus died and bled on the cross, his blood was shed for us.
It doesn't mean we really have blood put on us.
edited because I have a sharp tongue.
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 6:34 PM |
Death, pain and suffering
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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Bev,
Now see sail you are the one who preaches hell and damnation
You are delusional, a real head case!
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 8:41 PM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,136
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Unfortunately this is not true, IMO, because there are many people with "faith" who are truly not good people.
Something is amiss again. When some one approached Jesus and called him good teacher he said, " Why do you call me good? Only God is good." So you see if the best man that ever lived denied that he was good then that means there are no good men/women/people. So I think you are looking for something that does not truly exist. That would shift your focus in a direction that leads to a dead end. No Christians are not good or perfect or special. They only accept what God said and are saved, by grace. By grace means that no one deserves to be saved because no one is good. By Gods view we all deserve to die in hell. But when God sees the blood of Jesus over us then He sees that, the blood, and not the person who is under the blood any more. We are saved by grace and not goodness and not one person is good. Maybe by human standards but that is a standard that is lacking and incomplete.
As for why God allows it, Bev has a point, people bring it here and God allows free will. We are all allowed to choose. But here is Gods perspecive on the subject:
"I called you so often, but you didn't come. I reached out to you, but you paid no attention. You ignored my advice and rejected the correction I offered. So I will laugh when you are in trouble! I will mock you when disaster overtakes you when calamity overcomes you like a storm, when you are engulfed by trouble, and when anguish and distress overwhelm you.
"I will not answer when they cry for help. Even though they anxiously search for me, they will not find me. For they hated knowledge and chose not to fear the LORD. They rejected my advice and paid no attention when I corrected them. That is why they must eat the bitter fruit of living their own way. They must experience the full terror of the path they have chosen. For they are simpletons who turn away from me--to death.
S
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 9:11 PM |
Death, pain and suffering
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,239
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Seal, is this a quote from the Bible? If so I would like to read it.
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| Jun 15, 2006 @ 10:38 PM |
Death, pain and suffering |
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Angel54214
Posts: 13,932
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This takes me back to the book of Genesis because when God created Adam, Eve, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the tree of life.
When God commanded Adam and Eve to not eat or touch of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he gave a very important reason. You will surely die! Now this tree was not evil, it was a good tree bearing good fruit. Adam and Eve being deceived by that evil one that if they ate of this tree, they would gain all knowledge and be like God himself and live.
The tree God used as a physical symbol for giving his first commandment. Why this commandment? Was the commandment in itself a law? I think so! Because they did eat of this tree, so they broke God's first commandment, therefore gained the full knowledge of good and evil. So good and evil already existed, the tree was only there to show Adam and Eve they had freewill of choice, a great gift from God himself. For he also gave them freewill of choice to choose the tree of life also. They did not! They had 2 choices, they took the tempter's offering and not God's.
So later on, Noah came and his family. All was destroyed by flood except him and his family. But as we know, good and evil still existed. Cain showed this is true from his murdering his brother.
Freedom
As God explained to ancient Israel, the freedom to make choices is essential to developing righteous character (Deuteronomy 30:15-19). Without freedom to choose, we would be little more than robots, with our behavior either preprogrammed and unchangeable or dictated in all its details by an outside force such as God Himself.
But that is not God's intent. He has different expectations of us because of His much higher purpose for us. He wants us to choose to obey Him from the heart. He wants us to enthusiastically love and cherish His values and standards, which are based on two overriding principles; loving him with all our hearts and loving others as much as we love ourselves (Matthew 22:35-40).
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