| Jul 7, 2006 @ 12:44 PM |
There are two of you inside....?
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8Knots
Posts: 2,710
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Ego, garrulous, demanding, hysterical, calculating and the other a spiritual being, a still voice of wisdom....
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| Jul 7, 2006 @ 9:44 PM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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waterfire
Posts: 2,930
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Yes, we have a duality in us most if not all know this and I do not think it is a bad thing…in the long run. The thing is we just need to be whole, a balance between the two.
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| Jul 8, 2006 @ 9:00 AM |
There are two of you inside....?
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8Knots
Posts: 2,710
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We see everywhere in scripture from different religions, the need to look within.
When we look at the external world around us, we see impermanancy of all things. Everything we know is born in this existence, living to grow old and dies. Everything without question. Simple enough but....
What the hell does this tell us?
It tells us that there is no point in clinging on to anything in this impermanant world. Its pointless, its gonna die!
So lets throw out this world bit and look at the mind. There is that part that is part of this world.... hey.... dont it say something like that in scripture?
Our thoughts.... are of this world. The are born, live to grow old and die! No matter if it is in a flash of time or a well worked out pattern of ideas. They all go and even our memories fades away unless we keep renewing these thoughts and ideas. Unless we are really unlucky when some desease whipes our brains clean...
Doesn't matter if the thoughts are good or bad or seem to make us whole. They are the toughts of this world, mans world if you like, the thoughts of man maybe.
Alas, still hope yet for our fading and dying existence.... "Look within I am there".
When we stop these thoughts and ideas and detach our clinging to them, something happens, we become to a realisation. Something spectacular shines through our clouded, thought ridden minds that gives hope. Something stable, wise and compassionate. Our true minds.
"Seek and ye shall find the Kingdom of God".... "Look within I am there"... I dont know scripture.... someone else help out....
But isn't this the two of us inside? One of Egotistical mind or Mind of Man and the other...?
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| Jul 8, 2006 @ 11:30 PM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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8Knots:
Here are some quotes from the bible relating to some of the posts you've made:
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John, Chapter 2)
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 2:5)
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians, Chapter 4)
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke, Chapter 17)
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Mark 8:36)
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18)
6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." (John, 4) (NIV)
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth.
15 Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil.
16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. (James 3) (NIV)
Peace
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| Jul 9, 2006 @ 9:41 AM |
There are two of you inside....?
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8Knots
Posts: 2,710
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Thanks sail. It is quite clear. Why dont people have the "clear vision of wisdom" to see how their is all the beauty of Christianity?
To be honest, it doesn't matter if one is Buddhist, Christian, etc. What matters that we follow the pure teachings of Love, Compassion and Wisdom. In which the Bible is so rich!!!
Jesus, taught these things. It is quite clear. No amount of "scripture", interpretation and argument can wash away the pureness of teachings.
Personally i have been in some of the most "Christian" places on Earth. Inside the Vatican, sitting on St Francis rock bed in a little cave and others... I see Christianity in many different ways but there is a 'pure way" that they all try to teach. Even some of the things said in these Forums. Alas, why dont people clearly "open their hearts and minds".
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| Jul 9, 2006 @ 1:51 PM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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DoorWatcher
Posts: 6,259
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I'm reading The Power of Now by Ekhart Tolle, and according to him...which rings so true for me....there is the mind and the Being. I just read...."Watch the Thinker." Be an independent observer to your mind....for it is not You.
Have you read this book?
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| Jul 9, 2006 @ 2:10 PM |
There are two of you inside....?
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8Knots
Posts: 2,710
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No, I haven't read it myself "Doorwatcher".
"Watch the Thinker." Be an independent observer to your mind....for it is not You.
This is exact.
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| Jul 9, 2006 @ 4:25 PM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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Patrik707
Posts: 251
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Tolle YES..Must remember to read it.
In Dzogchen Buddhism they observe thoghts as well. But also the space between them. Somewhere in that space can the real self be found i believe they mean.
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| Jul 9, 2006 @ 4:47 PM |
There are two of you inside....?
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DoorWatcher
Posts: 6,259
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Yes! He calls it "non-mind", the gap in between our overactive mind. There lies true consciousness, and the source of creativity and peace and Being.
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| Jul 9, 2006 @ 5:00 PM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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8Knots
Posts: 2,710
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In Dzogchen... "awareness of thinking hence thoughts" be aware that you are thinking but dont become the thinking. "Be Spacious." Be in an awareness. This is also true of all other methods of meditation.
Dont become attached.
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 4:36 PM |
There are two of you inside....?
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,154
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Jesus, taught these things. It is quite clear. No amount of "scripture", interpretation and argument can wash away the pureness of teachings.
And He also taught that He is the ony way to the father, salvation, and heaven. Seems you have neatly tucked that away somewhere along with many others. That is not any interpretation Jesus said He was/is the way the truth and the life. That would limit the roads now wouldn't it? And He also said the road to destruction is wide easy to travel and many are those that are on it.
S
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 5:12 PM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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8Knots
Posts: 2,710
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"Jesus" was just one of many Masters who taught the same thing.
Once the realization arises that there is truth in many sources, we begin to understand more clearly.
At that time in his era maybe he was correct to say he was the only way for the people he taught. This is far from true of any other place and time on earth.
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 11:44 AM |
There are two of you inside....?
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8Knots
Posts: 2,710
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One of the problems with trying to connect with the "pureness' inside, one of the two, is that the other, "Ego" tries to do anything to survive.
The Love, Compassion and Wisdom we have is there. All religious persons teach of this even Jesus when he realtes to looking within.
Problem is that when we try to do this we have to let go of the egotistical side of us. In most part that which creates this world around us. We see that the great religious people run from the materialistical world. They teach to give up material wealth of any kind. Jesus himself wore a robe, sandles, very few things and practiced piety and simplicity.
We can see that most of the great minds of the material world had egos. There isn't anything wrong in ego if we understand it for what it is.
But when it comes to getting in the way of spiritual development, then problems arise. This ego, this "I am", "this is me", doesn't wish to get to the closer, inner mind. The true mind, that of Compassion and Wisdom. There are barriers to all things in life and we only excel when the barriers are broken.
In religions the barrier seems to be where the ego has made its mind up. "I have found peace here, in this or that teaching" when infact the ego has had a taste of "Religious truth" and ceases to go further. Similar to starting on a spiritual path yet stop to think, "hey I AM on the path" what next.
Next step....... keep going and the best way to keep going.... keep questioning the wisdom and compassion of our lives. Does it really fit into the truth of our inner nature? The true nature that was intended for us to learn. To grow into and be.
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| Jun 9 @ 4:46 AM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,138
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Both of us thank you for starting this thread Knotty 
It reminded me of Eckhart Tolle's latest book 'The New Earth' where he differentiates between the 'conditioned self(ego) and
the Higher Self
The 'Higher Self' is who we really are
Once we know that it is much easier to deal with the 'conditioned self'
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| Jun 9 @ 11:02 AM |
There are two of you inside....?
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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You're welcome Carp. Nice to see you back.
The mind is a funny thing. It has many aspects to it.
It is good to differentiate between the first two aspects of mind. One is the ordinary mind.... you know the part we tend to term "Self" and "Ego."
In Tibetan Buddhism it is called "Sem".
This is the part of the mind that we know very well. It posesses dicriminating awareness, it likes to think, plots, manipulates, desires. It likes to grasp or reject something of the outside world and needs to exist with this outside world.
It also posesses a sense of duality, you and me, the observer and the observed. Everything has dual nature for it.
It can build up in anger or flares in anger, creates or divulges in waves of negative emotions and thoughts.Always the monkey mind, flitting from one thing to another trying to give substance to its existence.
This is Sem, the ego mind, the self mind.
The other mind is called "Rigpa" in Tibetan Buddhist tradition. In other traditions it has differing names but still the same character.
The Sem or ordinary mind hides this rigpa mind. You could say "inner mind." Or better still your "true nature of mind." It is your inner most essence. Hidden in our sem mind.
In the Dzogchen tradition of Buddhism this mind is primordial, pure, pristine awareness. It is intelligent, cognizant, radiant, and always aware. This mind is also deathless. it can not die and untouched by change or death.
It is the very root of understanding and is said to be the knowledge of knowledge itelf.
When we meditate or Buddhists practice, it is the clearing of sem. Any form of meditation, buddhist related or not is a form that helps settle the sem mind. The ordinary mind from its thoughts, grasping and its constant applying duality to phenomena outside itself or in the external world.
We see this being called "higher self" but it is misleading because "self" does not exist here. The Sem mind tries to be something, a creator and trickster to bring about the notion that "I exist." We think and we think "this is who I am." But this isnt so. Sem is transient. Again in my tradition it is said the sem mind is like the clouded sky. Each thought a cloud that hides the real nature of rigpa or true nature of mind.
When we sit to meditate we clear away these clouds, these thoughts in sem mind. Like our sky with clouds cleared we can see the true sky way up into the heavens. This blue radiant sky is like our true nature, Our rigpa mind. Pure, clear and radiant.
Sorry its a bit long winded.
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| Jun 9 @ 11:23 AM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Awesome, Knotty!
Thank you!
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| Jun 9 @ 5:01 PM |
There are two of you inside....?
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,138
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Knots,,,,can't call you Knotty no more after I read what you just posted 
Not long winded at all,,,
High winds make me want to run and hide 
Gentler winds blow away clouds of confusion 
Duly noted,,,your reference to the 'self' within the term 'Higher self' 
btw,,,how do you pronounce' rigpa,',,not only the vowels i and a but where is he sylable emphasis
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| Jun 9 @ 5:25 PM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Rig as in oil rig..... pa as in pa pa
rig-pa
Rigpa....
Nature of mind.
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| Jun 9 @ 6:30 PM |
There are two of you inside....?
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Today was stormy, rainy, and cloudy all day until a few minutes ago when the sun peeked out and the clouds parted to allow the clear, blue shy through.
Just like the two inside.
Once muddled and gray; now clear and pristine.
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| Jun 10 @ 2:24 AM |
There are two of you inside....? |
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SpiritEnergy
Posts: 17,039
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Quite interesting. Thanks for reviving this, Carpe. And Knots, thanks for the posts.
In the Dzogchen tradition of Buddhism this mind is primordial, pure, pristine awareness. It is intelligent, cognizant, radiant, and always aware. This mind is also deathless. it can not die and untouched by change or death.
In my training, we are taught there are thirteen bodies and twenty four minds. Conscious and subconscious minds. The different bodies hold the different minds. Of these 13 bodies, ten of them also hold DNA and chromosomes. Also, three of the bodies are left behind at death.
I would have to read up to see which ones are left behind other than the physical body. And which have the DNA other than the physical body. Those bodies we take with us back to the spiritual realms I suppose have those undying minds you are mentioning. Very interesting reading. Yoga teaches there are ten bodies, I think. Interesting that there are so many similarities in Buddhism and Spiritual Response teachings.
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