| Jun 19 @ 11:16 AM |
Tale of Two Twins
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Istsign:
God is a Just and Righteous judge....He rains on the Just and the unjust...
Who is your God Sail? What is your faith based on? I don't think I've ever read it anywhere as I'm the new kid on the block
This is your God:
God is "jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloody thirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully" to quote Richard Dawkins.
Why? Read the Bible, it is that simple. But dont be delusional about it. 
Bible verses can be provided
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| Jun 19 @ 11:21 AM |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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1stsignofspring,
I believe the correct quote is..
"Choose ye this day whom you will serve"
What does this have to do with this thread and the questions the story generates?
You are so lost in your dogma. You are in denial.
This is all you can say about the conversations that have taken place in this thread.
You are just another blindly following sheeple.
Peace
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| Jun 19 @ 11:24 AM |
Tale of Two Twins
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 830
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We may be Christians...but we are not stupid... Sure you are. By saying I am trying to set you up, you obviously have come to the conclusion that there is no way for you to justify christianity's sick belief of eternal damnation.
Your problem is with Gods word not me. I don't have a porblem with God's word. You are not consequential enough to be a problem for me.
You don't throw half of Gods word away and rewrite the other half to fit your own personal religion. You have accused me of that vary thing.
Lance. You make many accusations. Name one? I jusr re-iteratde the questions that you didn't answer. I tried to illuminate them on the chance you were just trying to dodge them completely.
Here it is again:
You keep dodging the question. Can this condition can occur?
If so, how can you justify the outcome?
God is not contradictory and is a fair God....no loopholes.
Yes, I know many have said man wrote Salvation into the equations to help them feel better about their sin...but I somehow can't imagine a man writing Hell into the equation.....I don't think a man would do that as it wouldn't benefit him... Good post Spring!!! 
You're right! I don't know exactly what to expect in the afterlife. It is you who claims to know this based on your dogma.
I am not making a monster of my god since my god would never allow something like this to happen.
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| Jun 19 @ 11:34 AM |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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1stsign:
Love you honey!
I don't have any problem with discussing the Christian doctrine concerning Hell Sail.....but I won't discuss it with someone who has no desire to learn about it and is only looking for an argument against it. God is not contradictory and is a fair God....no loopholes.
That is NOT a discussion but a "my way or the highway baby!"
Yes, I know many have said man wrote Salvation into the equations to help them feel better about their sin...but I somehow can't imagine a man writing Hell into the equation.....I don't think a man would do that as it wouldn't benefit him..
So you admit the Bible isnt the Word of God?
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| Jun 19 @ 11:52 AM |
Tale of Two Twins
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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"Josh, you reached the age of accountability never having acknowledged Jesus Christ as Lord of your life. And even worse, just before you died, you expressed hatred for Him! You blasphemed, Josh! I heard you. And you did this, despite the fact that your born again (ahem! albeit imperfect) earthly father told you to honor and submit to Him repeatedly. You don't remember him telling you of -- Jeeezus? All you had to do was trust and love Jesus. Why didn't you?"
I am not afraid to comment on this piece of the story Sail...
There is no scripture that I can find that directly states God will automatically enter a child at this so called "age of accountability" into heaven. Jesus did however hold the little children in very high regard. If a child has not reached the mental maturity where he can distinguish God from Satan of which are adult concepts, then he obviously cannot make a clear choice for one or the other. It seems to go against the nature of God to then cast one of these children into hell.
This child was under extreme mental and physical abuse and was never introduced to the real nature of Christ..thus no knowledge of the true love of God.
Look at children who are mentally challenged or have Down's syndrone...who can not move let alone make a decision whether or not to recieve Jesus as their Savior. If God allowed Jesus to suffer excruitingly then wouldn't He make a way for an extremely retarded child to be givien a choice? God could and would find a way to save this child as it goes along with His great grace. This would not be the nature of God for this child to be cast into Hell.
I believe the "age of accountability" came from the early Orthodox Jews, who believed in the age of accountability. Thus the Bar Mitzvah to celebrate a childs passage into the age of accountability which the Jews fix to be about the age of 13. The Torah refers to him as a "man" in order to imply that 13 is the age of male adulthood. By age 13 they believe a boy has reached physical and mental maturity and is therefore accountable for his actions. For a girl this is at age 12. so by Torah law a 12 yr girl and a 13 yr old boy can enter into legal contracts and must observe all the contracts.
According to the Bible we are now living in the dispensation of Grace because of Jesus....so this boy would not have been cast into Hell...it just doesn't line up with the nature of God with all things considered. Just my opinion of course!
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| Jun 19 @ 12:01 PM |
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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Love you honey!
Love you too Knotty! 
So you admit the Bible isnt the Word of God?
No of course not silly! My point was why would men write Salvation into the equation and NOT Hell?? My point was ..because God inspired it ALL!
I keep telling you He is a fair God. There is a reward for sin as well....only fair Knotty... 
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| Jun 19 @ 12:07 PM |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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1stsignofspring,
You are now using the "age of accountability" to disprove this scenario. You are missing the point.
Let's change the story a little. Say the twins were 18 years old. The older twin was a normal mentally sound young man, his twin however because of the treatment by his father has serious mental problems. Everything else in the story remains the same.
The older twin by definition would be "accountable" for his actions. The younger twin because of his mental condition would not be "accountable" for his actions.
Would the older brother's damnation in hell be justifiable?
Peace
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| Jun 19 @ 12:24 PM |
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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No......he still didn't have the true Jesus presented to him....he never knew anything but that Jesus was the cause of his beatings....he had nothing to compare that type of Jesus to.
I am not using the Jewish age of accountability though....and even if I was....Jewish children know enough about the Bible to know the difference at a young age to make a credible decision.......This young man did not.....just as an 18 yr old Down Sydrone man wouldn't....
I am not missing the point....you brought up accountability....and I merely presented where it came from.
what is wrong Sail? I guess you don't like my answer so you have changed the story thinking I will give you something to argue about? 
....you really do want a fight don't you? That is sad.....
It isn't fair to put all Christians in a box you know.....
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| Jun 19 @ 12:31 PM |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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Are you now saying that those that do not know Jesus, or were taught false things about Jesus, will be save no matter what the age or situation?
Then why do missionaries go to savage tribes and teach them about Jesus, If they just left them alone, they would have been saved. So these missionaries probably cause more heathens to be damned than they actually save.
Please explain you view on this. You are now confusing me.
Peace
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| Jun 19 @ 12:47 PM |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Istsign:
Love you too Knotty!
shoot... you are learning too fast! 
No of course not silly! My point was why would men write Salvation into the equation and NOT Hell?? My point was ..because God inspired it ALL!
Oh come on, that means any man can write anything he wishes and say, "God inspired it!" We have prison cells full of inmates saying "God inspired them."
I keep telling you He is a fair God. There is a reward for sin as well....only fair Knotty..
Well, you believe the Bible is the word of God yet you refuse to believe ALL the Bible. God, by account of the Bible as plain as day is a Evil:
God is "jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloody thirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully" to quote Richard Dawkins.
Chapter and verse.
Why are you so selective? Selective memory isnt good you know! That leads to dogma
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| Jun 19 @ 1:01 PM |
Tale of Two Twins
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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Jesus told us that the "blind" or unknowing were not accountable for their sin:
John 9:39-41 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."
And that once "we see" our sin remains, or is accountable. The Bible also says we shall receive our own reward according to our own labor:
You are only accountable for what you know....
There are different levels of punishment as well as different levels of rewards.....a just God!!
This is no different that a judge sitting in a courtroom.....the circumstances are always taken into account before sentencing, etc. Whether a prison sentence or probation....everything is taken into account. He can't be put into a box....he is fair. Religion is bondage.....kind of like being constipated...but faith is freeing....free to be everything that God has for you! That is not dogma....that is called Relationship.....Religion....Relationship.....I choose relationship! 
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| Jun 19 @ 5:25 PM |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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You are only accountable for what you know....
There are different levels of punishment as well as different levels of rewards.....a just God!!
This is no different that a judge sitting in a courtroom.....the circumstances are always taken into account before sentencing, etc. Whether a prison sentence or probation....everything is taken into account. He can't be put into a box....he is fair. Religion is bondage.....kind of like being constipated...but faith is freeing....free to be everything that God has for you! That is not dogma....that is called Relationship.....Religion....Relationship.....I choose relationship!
Then you certainly do not follow the teachings of mainline christianity. You do not think it is essential to accepy Jesus as your savior. You believe in varying degrees of punishment. You don't conform to christianity's concept of grace. You seem to have your own opinions of God's judgement.
That is good. It means that you take from christian dogma concepts that feel right to you instead of just accepting what christian dogma teaches. There is hope for you.
I hope you continue to keep an open mind. It is the only way to grow spiritually.
Peace
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| Jun 20 @ 8:00 AM |
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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Sail....the Bible seems to refer to different levels of punishment and some of those scripture references and discussion are found in the link I have provided below.
http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/Are_There_Different_Degrees_of_Punishment_in_Hel
I am sorry to disappoint you but....I do believe it is essential to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior....it is the basis of my Christian faith. Without the life, death, and ressurection of Jesus there is no reason to have faith.. The Bible says when we believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord we shall be saved.....and that is the Grace and goodness of God. I believe the Bible to be the truth in whole and not in part. So please, don't let me be misunderstood.
I do however believe mainline Christianity has failed and is now going through a change. Part of this is because of man...watering down the gospel, and changing it's interpretation, and moving away from "relationship" with a God who wants to fellowship with us and moving into "religion" which binds because of the laws men have added to the Bible. This troubles me when I see too much of mans opinions which is his flesh being mixed in with the gospel...especially when it is used to manipulate God's people for their own greed and desire. Not all Christians are like this. When I get up each day I attempt to walk my talk....and though there are days I may fail.....His grace is sufficient for me. I walk my talk when I can put groceries in someone's house who doesn't have, or when I can be a friend to the friendless....and many opportunities present themself in each day to be a Christian. There are extremes and people who do "bad' things" in every religion or sect. The gospel is very simple actually and we have made it more complicated. The Bible states very clearly that "he whom the son has set free is free indeed!" I hope that clears things up for you as far as where I stand... 
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| Jun 20 @ 8:05 AM |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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Peace
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| Jun 20 @ 8:17 AM |
Tale of Two Twins
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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Oh come on now Sail.... You can say "Peace' with a smile now can't you? 
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| Jun 20 @ 8:21 AM |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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The emo is showing confusion, not a frown. You constantly contradict yourself.
Peace
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| Jun 20 @ 8:28 AM |
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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| Jun 20 @ 9:21 AM |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 830
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He rains on the Just and the unjust... Mostly on the just, because their umbrellas have been stolen by the unjust
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| Jun 20 @ 12:28 PM |
Tale of Two Twins
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 16,021
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I want my umbrella back... 
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