| Aug 17, 2006 @ 12:45 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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uab_5
Posts: 4,886
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cnn.com said:
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
Judge orders immediate halt to program
DETROIT, Michigan (AP) -- A federal judge ruled Thursday that the government's warrantless wiretapping program is unconstitutional and ordered an immediate halt to it.
U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor in Detroit became the first judge to strike down the National Security Agency's program, which she says violates the rights to free speech and privacy.
The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of journalists, scholars and lawyers who say the program has made it difficult for them to do their jobs. They believe many of their overseas contacts are likely targets of the program, which involves secretly taping conversations between people in the U.S. and people in other countries.
The government argued that the program is well within the president's authority, but said proving that would require revealing state secrets.
The ACLU said the state-secrets argument was irrelevant because the Bush administration already had publicly revealed enough information about the program for Taylor to rule.
This is a good ruling.  The program has always been a violation of the Bill of Rights. It also reeked of discrimination against Middle Easterners or any one else who makes frequent calls out of country and/or in a non-English language.
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| Aug 17, 2006 @ 12:47 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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Ensaged
Posts: 620
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The ultimate worry is where would it end or leadup to..........
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| Aug 17, 2006 @ 1:26 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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hahohalo
Posts: 213
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Just one more district judge that will be reversed at the SCOTUS.
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| Aug 17, 2006 @ 1:29 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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Ensaged
Posts: 620
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EFF.org
Join it if you look for communication and electronic freedom.
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| Aug 17, 2006 @ 4:13 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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Bj864
Posts: 4,238
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HURRAY! HURRAY! HURRAY!
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| Aug 17, 2006 @ 5:22 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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suzieq0808
Posts: 1,080
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What she said!
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| Aug 17, 2006 @ 10:07 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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irish20835
Posts: 1,224
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I believe it's a good descision ...when hillary becomes president it simply is one less way for me to be declared a enemy combatant because i own a bible ..a gun ..and disagree with her ...now if they just repeal the Patriot act ...ill have fewer worries
But in all seroiusness ...It was one of the things i disagreed with the president ..I am a huge a huge advocate for personall freedom and privacy
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 11:17 AM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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Bj864
Posts: 4,238
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..I am a huge a huge advocate for personall freedom and privacy
So am I. I think anyone willing to give up all that, doesn't deserve to live in this country. That's what American all about and what we have always stood for.
I don't care whether a democrat or republican is in the White House, I would feel exactly the same. We do not need to give the president unlimited powers, otherwise they are not a president at all, but a dictator.
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 1:09 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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uab_5
Posts: 4,886
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The Patriot Act and the NSA warrantless wiretapping reeked of NAZI Germany, the Soviet Union, or the First Galactic Empire.
AG Gonzalez said on CNN that the President should be given lattitude in protecting the country since we are at war. This has several major problems:
1. What's the definition of "war"? Is it when Congress funds overseas troop deployment? Is it when the President say it? Is it after a declaration of war? The first two cases means the U.S.A. is constantly at war. The third definition is not applicable since Congress never declared war.
2. Who defines the limits of Presidential war time powers? The Consitution is the final law for Presidential authority. Once it is brushed aside, what threshold is left for the President to cross? When is the President required to relenguishhis war time powers and under whose authority?
It seems that the bad guys are jealous of our freedom, so to combat that jealousy, we're destroying our freedom ourselves. 
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 6:18 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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Bj864
Posts: 4,238
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It seems that the bad guys are jealous of our freedom, so to combat that jealousy, we're destroying our freedom ourselves.
That argument obviously makes no sense of any kind, but a lot of people fell for it.
They have a very good bunch of PR people and a lot of people believe whatever they hear on TV.
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 6:31 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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ok..playing devils advocate here...if the nsa had osamas telephone number..would anyone say it was wrong to listen in?
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 6:47 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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uab_5
Posts: 4,886
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ok..playing devils advocate here...if the nsa had osamas telephone number..would anyone say it was wrong to listen in?
YES! If the phone call tapped was domestic in any nature and tapped without a warrant, no information gathered from or gathered because of the phone conversation should be admissable to in a U.S. court.
We are a nation of laws, so we cannot break our own laws to fight an enemy regardless if it were Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Togo, Mao Tse-Tung, Ho Chi Mihn, Ayatollah Khomenie, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Osame bin Laden 'less we stop distinguishing ourselves from them.
The Patriot Act and NSA wire tapping is comparable to the Alien Sedition Acts of the John Adams administration.
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 6:49 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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hahohalo
Posts: 213
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Bullshit.
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 6:58 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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Ensaged
Posts: 620
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hahohalo,
I like you, but you just gave a silly "asshole" answer.
If you have a reason, logical, or good argument, then post it.
If you don't, then don't debase yourself by giving those kind of "asshole" replies.
I've read other posts of yours and I know that you can be a good debater.
So keep it civil, okay?
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 7:07 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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interesting... if someone gave up his location... we would bomb him to hell without a trial.. but if we had his phone number.. and a domestic caller was talking to him we should not listen in??? sounds like bullshit to me too.. BTW.. I agree that the info gathered should not be brought into evidence at a trial......
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 7:42 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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uab_5
Posts: 4,886
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A unilateral show of force isn't a trial, nor does it break our laws.
We've set the precedent a long time ago for defending ourselves militarily by tapping conversations...a.k.a. Midway and Pearl Harbor.
However, if Saiid in Philly talks to Mostafa in Cairo, we cannot arrest and try Saiid based on evidence from a warrantless wiretap.
Now if a FISA courrt blesses the wiretap, Amen.
Ditto if Mostafa in Cairo finds himself on the receiving a JDAM based on the conversation, Amen.
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 7:46 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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hahohalo
Posts: 213
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Ensaged, no debate necessary. I gave a succinct, well reasoned, pointed reply, as my opinion. My reply was completely civil, no "attack" in anyway. However, if ...
If you don't, then don't debase yourself by giving those kind of "asshole" replies
you want to begin by insinuation such as above, I will gladly reciprocate. You will definately find you are out of your league very quickly.
mmmmmmmm...chicken 
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 7:49 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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Uab_5
.
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edited.....
btw...for those who wondered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDAM
[Edited on 8/18/2006 8:10 PM]
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 7:55 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
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Ensaged
Posts: 620
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hahohalo,
Now you're calling me names?
I actually had a good deal of respect for you, until now.
I wasn't attacking you. I wasn't insinuating ANYTHING. I've already said my piece on this particular thread and have moved on.
What I did do was try to get your attention on using foul language and how it may take away from the experience of everyone here.
For all of our sakes, I was trying to keep things civil.
They will shut down these forums AGAIN, if we don't act like decent human beings.
Personally, I like these forums and the friends I've made.
However, people like you are going to cause the shutdown of these forums again, unless we act and speak decently without resorting to foul language and attacks on other people.
I was under the impression that you were an intelligent and fair-minded debater.
I hope that you are and remain one, so that we can keep these forums going.
Remember, disagreements are one thing. Calling someone a name is silly, immature, and works against everyone else here.
hahohalo, take my words for what they are, but now I'll go Alpha-male and say that if you want to make things personal, then I'll gladly buy you a plane ticket and you can fly down here and take a swing at me in person.
Or are you too chicken?
Please email me if you aren't. We can hash out the details privately.
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| Aug 18, 2006 @ 8:00 PM |
NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional |
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Jankia
Posts: 12,605
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Its our governments job to protect its citizens.Wiretapping is one of the modern ways of doing it.Times change and so does security.I would much rather have my Bill of Rights violated in the name of security than my life violated by extremists.
I dont give a damn about whether the tapped information can or should be used in a court of law.I do give a damn that our government is trying to protect us by finding out as much as possible about anyone thats hates this country and will do anything to see it suffer.
Bullshit indeed!
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