| Oct 16, 2006 @ 10:11 PM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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DawolfLover
Posts: 568
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I just heard a report from Keith Olberman that on Sep. 28, 2006, congress signed the Military Commissions Act and that this legislation pretty much throws Habeas Corpus out the window. I was absolutely floored. How could another one of these slip through? First the Patriot Act gives the government the ability to jail ANYONE they feel is a threat to the U.S.. Now with the new law, they say that we can't ask why we've even been put there. Let alone getting out.
Perhaps some of you politicos can find out if Keith was blowing smoke or if he had a leg to stand on. I looked up the MCA and it seemed to only talk about Habeas Corpus in terms of "aliens". So we're either expecting invasions from space or they're referring to non-citizens of the U.S..
I also noticed a section saying something about the Geneva Convention not being allowed to be used either. As well as redefining terms and provisions in the Military Code of Justice.
Here's a link to the Military Commissions Act:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s3930enr.txt.pdf
LOL and here's one to Wikipedia about Habeas Corpus(I knew it had to do with trials but I had to look it up to be certain about what it was.):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus
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| Oct 16, 2006 @ 10:17 PM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,914
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No democracy has ever lasted long throughout history wolf,no reason to think ours will do any better.
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| Oct 16, 2006 @ 10:29 PM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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DawolfLover
Posts: 568
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Well then it's a good thing we haven't lost the second amendment yet. So that we can at least defend ourselves against our own government when,not if, the time comes. 
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| Oct 16, 2006 @ 10:50 PM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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This is what happens when evil Republicans and/or crooked Democrats get a lopsided clawhold of the government.
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| Oct 16, 2006 @ 11:45 PM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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waiting41
Posts: 1,926
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First the Patriot Act gives the government the ability to jail ANYONE they feel is a threat to the U.S.. Now with the new law, they say that we can't ask why we've even been put there. Let alone getting out.
Unless you have some kind of links to Al Quida or some other terrorist organization, then why would this concern you so much? I personally would think you would sleep better at night knowing that the government is serious about keeping these terrorists behind bars and protecting our country. :)
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 12:10 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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daniel_at_ipfw
Posts: 637
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First of all, I have no political affiliation... I dislike both parties equally, and I think that we need to make wholesale changes to how our system works. We need more accountability and TERM LIMITS.... Anyhow, that's for another thread....
You have to understand who we are dealing with here. These people want to kill you and your family! What would you give up to protect your family? We have to go to the extreme to protect our country from these creeps, and in my humble opinion, giving up a little smidge of civil liberty is a small price to pay for security.
If they did nothing, and we were attacked again, everyone would be screaming and yelling that they didn't do enough... God help us if they get their nasty little hands on chemical weapons or a nuke... I would rather be on the safe side and put security first...
The only gripe I really have is that we had the chance to send in an overwhelming force to take out the terrorist leadership in Afghanistan, and we sent just a token force and allowed them to escape....
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 12:19 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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giving up a little smidge of civil liberty is a small price to pay for security
No!
I would rather have fighting in the streets than give up any liberty, Generations that follow us would think we were worthless and weak for giving up our liberties that American's fought for ON AMERICAN SOIL!!!!!!!!!!!!! The right to bear arms was made to protect ourselves from our own government taking away our liberties. Don't you go to sleep on us.
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 12:22 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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daniel_at_ipfw
Posts: 637
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I totally understand what you are saying, but the fact is that WE, as average Americans, are giving up nothing... It is not you or I who this policy targets, but the terrorists...
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 12:25 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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That is what CIA "Black Ops" are for isn't it?
Not betayal of the Constitution, by the President and Congress
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 12:38 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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daniel_at_ipfw
Posts: 637
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They have to follow the law too.... The CIA just lost the ability to use many of its means of interrogation through legislation in Washington. Basically, they have to be kind and gentle to the people who wish to destroy this country by any means possible... Don't get me wrong, I detest torture or inhumanity, but we can use kid gloves in this situation...
Right now, we need to be prudent, and protect our country before something dreadful happens.. Could you imagine a nuke going off in NY, or LA, or even your home town.... Think of the consequences of inaction.....
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 12:54 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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DawolfLover
Posts: 568
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The government is using its expanded authority under the far-reaching law[The Patriot Act] to investigate suspected drug traffickers, white-collar criminals, blackmailers, child pornographers, money launderers, spies and even corrupt foreign leaders, federal officials said. Quoted from: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/09/28/MN25356.DTL
Nice to know that it's intended for the terrorists and not us average Americans.
If you go read the language used in the Act, you'll see that they are so vague on the term terrorist that it can be used against any US Citizen. They've already started using it on people they consider threats to our way of life. How long will it be before they decide that voices against the government are threats to our way of life? I guess when you find yourself in a cell for saying that the government sucks, you'll have a few years to reflect on just how few of those liberties you were willing to give up.
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 1:05 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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daniel_at_ipfw
Posts: 637
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I respect your opinion, but once again I do not believe that these policies are meant for average Americans, but for the terrorist who would nuke us in a heartbeat.
Should we not give our law inforcement community the tools they need to protect our country? Should we not listen in on their calls, track their movement, or put them in prison before they can mount another attack....
So, in your opinion, what would you do about terrorism? How would we protect our country from people who will do anything to destroy us. I am interested in what you would do, if you made the rules...
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 1:12 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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daniel_at_ipfw
Posts: 637
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I love the passion people have for politics, policies, and government in general. Nothing stirs the pot more it seams. I respect everyones opinions, and I am thankful that you have an opinion.
Too many people just don't care either way, and the people have lost their voice because of it.. Could you imagine if this was the sixties again, their would be riots in the streets...
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 1:15 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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So, in your opinion, what would you do about terrorism? How would we protect our country from people who will do anything to destroy us
This is a valid question and is what forums are really intended for.
My first suggestion is to stop OPEC and oil cartels from bullying American's and let us develop alternative energy sources without invervening. They have enough Trillions to last a trillion lifetimes.
Oh....... also tell arm's dealers to F-off
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 1:20 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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daniel_at_ipfw
Posts: 637
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Now that is an answer that I truly agree with.... If we were smart, we would become totally self-sufficient, and tell them all to take a hike... They would all go broke in a matter of weeks..
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 1:26 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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daniel_at_ipfw
Posts: 637
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Do you remember the race for the moon. I think we should make finding a new and clean source of energy a national priority just like we did for reaching the moon. It should be our top priority for national security and the environment...
If we could just get politicians in Washington that weren't beholden to oil company money, we might actually get somewhere..
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 10:56 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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Bj864
Posts: 3,970
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I think this might answer your question.
The Act authorizes the President or the Secretary of Defense, via a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or a competent tribunal, to designate any person - including an American citizen - as an unlawful enemy combatant, without guidelines for making that designation. [See part ii of the definition below.] These tribunals are distinct from the military commissions which this Act defines. These tribunals determine whether or not a person is an unlawful enemy combatant, but the military commissions try persons held under this Act if charges are ever brought.
This came from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act_of_2006
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 11:28 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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Martin666
Posts: 2,195
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This act is unconstitutional on it's face. It seems to directly violate both the 14th Amendment and Article 1 Section 8. It will be challenged in the courts and eventually thrown out by the Supreme Court. The court is not about to voluntarily give up judicial review of this issue.
This law was a "throw away" piece of crap passed by the Republicans a couple weeks before the election. They passed it just to look tough to their constituency knowing full well that it will not withstand a constitutional test, and as retribution to the Supreme Court's decision in Hamdan v. Rumfeld.
Same thing with the 700 mile fence on the border that was recently voted on. Even the republicans who voted for it are saying that there are so many loopholes in it that it was almsot certainly never be built. One loophole: bush, who is oppossed to the fence, has final say over whether or not it will be built.
Just another piece of mindless window-dressing hung up to make the conservative base feel warm and cuddly while the world falls apart around them.
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 11:49 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news?
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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Thanks Martin,
Apparently many people never took High School Civics or College Law & Political Science courses.
That sets them up to be lambs amongst the wolves if they are not more observative.
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| Oct 17, 2006 @ 11:53 AM |
Military Commissions Act, Is Habeas Corpus old news? |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,622
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I do not believe that these policies are meant for average Americans, but for the terrorist who would nuke us in a heartbeat.
Hey Daniel...welcome to the forums!
I'd agree with Martin (and I do more often than not), that this will be thrown out, however... I've said it before and have yet to see an argument effective enough to change my mind...power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. This government was very well designed based on checks and balances, to prevent exactly that from happening, because it was very much the mindset of our founding fathers. Ben Franklin said that any country that gives up liberty for the sake of safety deserves neither. Regardless of how technology has changed, I believe that principle is still valid. If we're not willing to sacrifice ourselves and/or our loved ones for the sake of preserving this country's basic principles, we don't deserve to call ourselves free.
In a war against terrorism, the battlefield is here as well as elsewhere, and there's no such thing as a non-combatant. There are plenty of avenues available to snoop where reasonable cause is required. Granting unilateral and unchecked power to people is inviting abuse and regardless of the initial intentions of the framers of the law, you can bet the ranch that it will be abused eventually, by whoever holds that power...and justified in their own minds as being for the good of the country.
Disclaimer:: I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican and my ideal would be to have power centered in such a way that people whose agendas are 180 degrees apart are watching each other.
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