| Mar 29, 2007 @ 6:33 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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spongebob777
Posts: 7,904
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One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
FORT BLISS, Texas -- Robert Rangel was a college student trying to "fly below the radar" when his draft number came up in 1967.
"I got caught," he said with a wide smile.
Caught, as it turns out, for 40 years.
Chief Warrant Officer Rangel was one of just 10 draftees still in the Army when he retired Wednesday, according to Fort Bliss officials. It was unclear whether the other draftees have served as long as Rangel; the draft ended in 1973.
Rangel, of El Paso, said the prospect of being drafted was terrifying after watching numerous friends "coming home in coffins."
But he opted to stay well beyond the required two-year hitch because "I started enjoying my job and the people I worked with."
He's been deployed to nine combat zones, from Vietnam to the Persian Gulf. Maj. Gen. Robert Lennox, the Fort Bliss commanding general, described Rangel as the "foremost expert" on air defense systems at the West Texas post, the current home of the Air Defense Artillery Center.
Michael Zaborowski, a retired lieutenant colonel who has known Rangel for more than a decade, said he has long been impressed by his dedication. "I did 20 years and I thought that was a lot," he said.
Rangel retired a few months before his 62nd birthday, when he would have been forced to do so under Army regulations.
His mother, who attended his retirement ceremony, was relieved the day had finally come. "That was a long time that I worried," Adelina Rangel said softly.
Rangel's years in the Army included more than 200 parachute jumps with a special forces unit in Vietnam and Cambodia, time in battle zones, a firsthand view of the crumbling of the Berlin Wall and a tour in the first Gulf War.
Now his priority is to take care of his mom and tackle some projects.
Tops on the list is restoring a 1964 Plymouth Sport Fury. He parked it in his mom's barn when he went off to basic training.
I just thought this was an interesting story. I'd like to see the 64 Fury,
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 12:20 AM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,230
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Rangel's years in the Army included more than 200 parachute jumps with a special forces unit in Vietnam and Cambodia, time in battle zones, a firsthand view of the crumbling of the Berlin Wall and a tour in the first Gulf War.
  he deserves more than we could ever give him.
Thanks Sponge for the story!!!
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 1:57 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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Martin666
Posts: 2,142
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Well, I am glad that this guy's finally out of the army, and it's a good story...he deserves credit for hanging in there, for his accomplishments, and his service.
But he didn't do 200 combat jumps in Vietnam. In fact, he didn't even do a single one.
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 8:41 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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jamminjerry
Posts: 3,768
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sorry sponge, seems ya got took like a lot of folks. great "story" though. i did 6 years and learned enuff to make the correct choice. there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth but, thank God for regulations! LOL
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 8:45 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,242
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But he didn't do 200 combat jumps in Vietnam. In fact, he didn't even do a single one.
Warrant Officer, right? A helicopter pilot? 
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 9:12 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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Martin666
Posts: 2,142
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Probably a chopper pilot, yes, or something related to flight. But there weren't 200 combat jumps in Vietnam. In the entire Vietnam theatre, which included Laos and Cambodia, there was only one combat jump over the entire history of the vietnam war. In Feb 67, the 173rd put about 900 guys onto the ground to support "operation Junction City." That was it.
Paratroopers are of remarkably little use in double and triple canopy jungle...they end up looking like christmas tree ornaments. Inserts were done more safely, accurately, and efficiently by chopper drops directly to the ground.
There was a place down by Pleiku where some of the airborne guys used to go and do their training jumps in order to keep their jump pay, but I think that was only one or two jumps a year to maintain the rating, and those weren't considered combat jumps, just training. Other than that, the airborne guys were ground pounders like everyone else.
But what the hell--this guy spent a million years in the service, he gets to take liberties with his biography. Fisherman and soldiers: if they're talkin', they're lyin'.
:)
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 9:20 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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He flew? And not just as a passenger?
I'm more familiar with the Navy. They have a pilot program for CPOs as pilots, but it wasn't started until 2005. I don't even think it's permanent yet.
http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=22072
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 9:29 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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Martin666
Posts: 2,142
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So far as I know, Warrant Officers piloted essentially all army choppers in Vietnam from 1960 or 1961 on, through the end of the war. In the two years I was there, I never met a warrant officer who wasn't a pilot, but they could have been used elsewhere and I just didn't know it. Maybe they could be part of the flight crews? I don't know.
When I first signed up, I signed up with the understanding that I would be a Warrant Officer and fly choppers. That's what they put on my papers. Then they screwed me... 
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 9:33 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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Thanks for the info Martin and YIKES!
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 9:38 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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Martin666
Posts: 2,142
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LOL--the recruiters are good at whispering sweet nuthins' in your ear at signing time. The next thing you know, you're sitting in the mud with a rifle in your lap watching the choppers flying through the sky way above you.
Robert Rangel put up with 40 years of this.
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 9:40 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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A la Private Benjamin..."No I think there's been a mistake...I joined the Army with the condos."
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 10:35 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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Empath
Posts: 5,094
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In the entire Vietnam theatre, which included Laos and Cambodia, there was only one combat jump over the entire history of the vietnam war. In Feb 67, the 173rd put about 900 guys onto the ground to support "operation Junction City." That was it.
Could you please explain this then?
US Combat Jumps
Sorry, my mistake. 
[Edited on 3/30/2007 10:40 PM]
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 10:39 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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Martin666
Posts: 2,142
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Hi Empath--
That link won't open.
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 10:45 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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Empath
Posts: 5,094
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It should now. Sorry.
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| Mar 30, 2007 @ 11:45 PM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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Martin666
Posts: 2,142
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That's a good resource, thank you. It lists a number of jumps that it indicates were "previously classified' a total of 24 jumps over the course of the war in Vietnam, laos, Cambodia from 1962 until 1973.
There were two jumps prior to the Junction City operation--one in 62 (12 men jumped, advisors) and one in 63 ( 2 men jumped, advisors).
A month after Junction City, a few guys jumped with the Montagnards, and then in October 67, a few more guys jumped with the ARVN and the Montagnards.
Rangel couldn't have been in-country for either of these jumps if he was drafted in 67. He doesn't show up on the Junction City jump list:
http://www.173rdairborne.com/manifest.htm
He theoretically could have been present for the October jump, but he doesn't show up on the 5th SFG roster that I could see for the Quang Duc area:
http://www.thespecialforce.com/index.htm
After that October jump, there were 18 other jumps between 1968 and 1973, all by 2-4 man SOG teams. He doesn't make any claim to being a MACV SOG HALO jumper, and if he had been, he would have claimed it. I couldn't find him on any SOG lists. In any event, he would have been in country for only a year or two, which means at best he would have been present for only one or two of the SOG jumps since they were spread out through 1973.
And that's it. IF he was a MACV SOG HALO jumper, he might have taken part in a couple of jumps at best, or a couple of static line jumps at best as a SOG. But since there are only about 24 jumps listed for the entire war between 1962 and 1973, it's highly unlikely he took part in 200. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he spent two years in nam instead of the regular one year tour, he would have still had to make a combat jump every 3.65 days to get them all in.
Sorry--didn't happen. I'll go out on a limb and say that no one has every had more than a dozen combat jump stars on their jumps wings, and that includes WWII and is probably high.
None of this really matters---the guy put in 40 years in the army. No doubt the details have melded together for him. Power to him--I couldn't have done it.
That was a good resource link--thank you for pointing it out and keeping me honest 
[Edited on 3/31/2007 1:01 AM]
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| Apr 1, 2007 @ 9:43 AM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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Empath
Posts: 5,094
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None of this really matters---the guy put in 40 years in the army. No doubt the details have melded together for him. Power to him--I couldn't have done it. Thank you.
Politics is, in my opinion, a very stressful topic for those involved in the discussions, and it gladdens my heart to see a "little good news" (as Anne Murray once sang).
I believe this was meant as a "feel good" story, of which there are all too few of day in and day out. Details do tend to 'meld', and are fun to debate; however, it would be nice to see the man's dedication to his country acknowledged before picking apart the details of his life.
That was a good resource link--thank you for pointing it out and keeping me honest Uhh....you're welcome.
~going back to the peanut gallery now~
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| Apr 1, 2007 @ 10:33 AM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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Martin666
Posts: 2,142
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Hi Em
I agree: a feel good story it was meant to be and a feel good story it is, despite the sniping around the edges.
If I may explain where I'm coming from...
Vietnam vets are a quirky lot. They had a rough time over there, and they've had a rough time back here as well, dealing with acceptance and a dozen other issues. And no, I'm not whining and I'm not looking for sympathy--just stating a fact. And because they've had to live through that--and are very sensitive to the issue-- they can't help but notice that the number of guys who now claim to have served in Vietnam is a lot higher nowadays than the number of guys the army says actually served there--if you get my drift. A lot of guys who didn't/couldn't/wouldn't go back then, are suddenly discovering in middle age that telling people they did serve get's them a certain status that they kinda like.
Well, if you wrote the blog you should get the kudo. But if you didn't write the blog, you shouldn't claim the kudo OR get it. If you didn't feel that pain, then don't claim it.
These guys who didn't actually write the blog in Vietnam are called "wannabes." There are places you can go online to hire ex-military guys to track down an individuals claim to having been in Vietnam, using the Freedom of Information Act and other sources. These sleuths call themselves "slayers," wannabe slayers.
When two vietnam vets meet---especially online---there's a little dance that goes on as each tries to determine whether the person on the other end of the screen is the real thing or a wannabe. And it can get vicious until the determination is made one way or the other. A wannabe is a lower form of life than sewer sludge.
This may be hard for a non-vet to understand. This need to "know" the truth of another persons claims. This need to be personally validated by knowing the truth or falseness in another's statement.
Anyhow--Robert Rangel did the impossible: he lasted forty years in the army. My hat is off to him. I'm sure he had a distinguished career, I'm glad for his service and thank him for it. I really do.
But he didn't do 200 combat jumps in vietnam. He needs to be called on that part of his record. And not calling him on it would leave me less of a person.
None of that may make sense-- 
Thanks for the input, Em
[Edited on 4/1/2007 10:52 AM]
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| Apr 1, 2007 @ 10:45 AM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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Empath
Posts: 5,094
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Actually, it makes a lot of sense to me, even though I am a complete outsider. I can believe that little "fiction or non" dance that those men perform, simply because of the traumas they went though, and probably still go through. I find it understandable that they would want to quiet the 'wannabes' and protect their rights for what they've truly earned.
As to Rangel's claim to the 200 jumps....perhaps some details were 'melded' , or practice jumps included......I cannot say. I merely pointed out that there was more than the one jump by the 173rd. I suppose it helps that the information is no longer classified.
I really must excuse myself from this discussion now, though, as I am way out of my knowledge base. Enjoy!
[Edited on 4/1/2007 10:46 AM]
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| Apr 1, 2007 @ 10:46 AM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires
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12knots
Posts: 6,400
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Excellent Post Martin, and written by a true vet!
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| Apr 1, 2007 @ 10:55 AM |
One of 10 draftees still in Army retires |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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Speaking of wannabes and wannabe slayers...this phenomena goes well beyond Vietnam. My former boss fought in WWII. He was in the Navy, and his pedigree read like a history of naval battles of the Pacific, including Pearl Harbor.
We had a uber-patriot in the district, who was always writing the office, the local newspaper, etc. He became so convinced of his own sacrifice, his rhetoric overflowed with questions about the patriotism of others. One day, my boss let the cat out of the bag. This guy never made it out of Fort Dix the entire WWII. He sharpened pencils for Uncle Sam. His cover was blown and no one ever heard from him again. His little letters never made it into the newspaper and he stopped his weekly tirades to the office.
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