| Apr 15, 2007 @ 11:45 PM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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raykl
Posts: 566
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An interesting program on PBS concerning Bin Laden, with much input from Arabs in government, friends that he once had in Saudi Arabia along with those captured.
He is a well read individual, reading many books on the rise and fall of great nations. After the war in Afghanistan, he realized that he could never defeat the US or the European nations in a conventional war.
Using what he has studied, he has learned that nations eventually over-expand
themselves and begin to cascade into bankruptcy from the expense.
Most Arab leaders felt that Al Qaeda was finished after Afghanistan, with little
hope of recovery. Then came the Iraq invasion. Iraq, Baghdad in particular, is a veryholy site for Islam. The presence of Infidels here is an insult. Bin Laden used this as a tool to recruit and rebuild Al Qaeda- A jihad to remove the Infidels from the holy land. It has worked, not as a single entity, but through franchises.
His strategy is to continue drawing America into the Arab world, weakening the army, thus bringing about its demise. This along with the future disruption of oil supplies, will eventually bring America to its knees through bankruptcy.
The second part answers why has there not been another attack since 2001?
It seems that Bin Laden was widely criticized by his peers for not giving the
US enough warning that an attack was coming as per the laws of a Jihad.
Since then, there have been nine messages sent to the US warning of more
attacks. Most have seen the videos. Other requirements have also been met.
These, he has warned, will be worse than 9/11.
I am not saying I agree or do not agree- just found it an interesting perspective.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 12:51 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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Most Arab leaders felt that Al Qaeda was finished after Afghanistan, with little hope of recovery.
Good thing us realists didn't buy into that BS. The whole idealist conveluted Muslim Jihadist program is still intact and, still a threat. Nobody fell asleep at the wheel thank goodness.
His strategy is to continue drawing America into the Arab world, weakening the army, thus bringing about its demise. This along with the future disruption of oil supplies, will eventually bring America to its knees through bankruptcy.
Oh my goodness, Osama is now taking credit for the US invading Iraq? Suppose he invented the wheel too.
It seems that Bin Laden was widely criticized by his peers for not giving the US enough warning that an attack was coming as per the laws of a Jihad. Since then, there have been nine messages sent to the US warning of more attacks. Most have seen the videos. Other requirements have also been met.
These, he has warned, will be worse than 9/11.
He didnt warn? Bombs the trade center a decade earlier, kills troops in Somalia, Embassies in Africa and now warns galore everywhere from his pissed stenched cave. Wondering, why has his attention shifted from the Afganistan, the US, to Iraq, and now to Somalia while his own Al Queda organization fights for survival in it's own homeland of Saudi Arabia?
I am not saying I agree or do not agree- just found it an interesting perspective.
Undertand that, but, you have to remember that the Jihadist movement is not dependent on him. He is a respected ichon but not the leader of the Jihadist movement. Millions of disenfranchised youth as well as people who have nothing else in their lives join this theology which combines politics, religion, societal beliefs as well as personal egotistical and family honor so it is hard to call him the leader of anything save someone who calls for our death ineffectually . He may hold some sway but as of late, not many.
As for his strategic moves, one of them was to bog the US in Afganistan and defeat them which was thwarted by using the Alliance troops as well as the 'Arab Street' not rising up agains the West in general. That by the way (911), was his last 'offical,' or what we could consider, his last 'military' or 'leadership' move.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:07 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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Oh my goodness, Osama is now taking credit for the US invading Iraq?
Why not? Bush tried unsuccessfully to link him and Sadaam to make a case for the Iraq War. Is it any surprise Bin Laden would take advantage of it by doing the same now that the war has failed.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:10 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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ExacerbatedTaboo
Posts: 1,401
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I didn't read this whole thread and maybe I should've but I can tell you this. The interpretation of Bid Ladens videos and tapes are only as credible as the person who is translating it to you. If a certain institution whats public backing for an agenda then of course bin laden is going to be quoted on the tapes as saying "yeah I did it" If you really want to know what bin laden is saying then you get a neutral source of interpretation. You most certainly don't get the US government to translate. They want you mad and angry so you will give public support for a war that has gone on for too long.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:23 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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Why not? Bush tried unsuccessfully to link him and Sadaam to make a case for the Iraq War. Is it any surprise Bin Laden would take advantage of it by doing the same now that the war has failed.
He linked Iraq with the War on terror which it is due to it's location and the necessioty to place US firepower on land within the region outside of Saudi Arabia. Osama linked the US with all the ills of the world. Big difference.
I didn't read this whole thread The interpretation of Bid Ladens videos and tapes are only as credible as the person who is translating it to you.
It's only two posts long. Try harder please. As for the translations, my link was to over eight hundred thousand sources. I have seen what Al Jazeera says, European papers, CNN and whomever else. They all seem to agree with the same point which is he makes threats from a cave in Pakestan. You have further info to counter this then I shall examine enthusiasticlly.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:25 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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He linked Iraq with the War on terror which it is due to it's location and the necessity to place US firepower on land within the region outside of Saudi Arabia.
So what you're saying is that we attacked Iraq because it's a convenient location. Sadly, that sounds believable.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:27 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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ExacerbatedTaboo
Posts: 1,401
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I think you missed the entire point....You're watching all these news sources and they all get their news from the same horses mouth. The White House is the one translating these and telling the media what they say. Now I will say it again and you can say whatever you want about it...The translation is only as credible as the person translating to you.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:33 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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ExacerbatedTaboo
Posts: 1,401
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So what you're saying is that we attacked Iraq because it's a convenient location. Sadly, that sounds believable.
Iraq was pointless and costly on almost every level imaginable. We had no business in Iraq and the original reasons for war with Iraq was based on lies and Bush didn't get impeached for it. Bush is a warmonger and a fearmonger. What he fails to understand is that Iraq isn't America and never will be. Why do you think the first thing they do when we get over there is start burning their oil? They know we're going to steal it. Now that doesn't mean that you're going to get a discount at the pumps, that just means that there is more profit for politicians. Another company that profits from the war in Iraq is Haliburton. They get huge multi million dollar contracts in the rebuilding process. Was Iraq a convenient location? Oh yes.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:40 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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So what you're saying is that we attacked Iraq because it's a convenient location. Sadly, that sounds believable.
It is. Sorry to tell you. Conservative Wahabbissm was a threat to Saudi Arabia and, placed inmmense pressure on the regime there. In order to take it on themselve the Royals would have to risk civil war which they wouldnt do even with the pressure the US placed on them politically. They even sucked up and removed troops to placate the Jihadists to please the Royal family but still, they wouldn't deal with Al Queda. Hence, the best option seemed to place US troops in a position of strength complete with force adjacent Iraq. As Saddam was in violation of every ceasefire obligation and, had been for over a decade as well as possessed WMDs and/or made no show to prove as he was supposed to the he did not. The world easily believed he also had them to boot so, made him an assett to the fight against Al Queda rather than a liability. Prety much a free land grab for US strategic bases.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 1:47 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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Prety much a free land grab for US strategic bases. No, A lot of people have died for something you're calling free.
And the US has known for years, even back in 1999 we were going to be kicked out of Saudi Arabia. How do I know? I was there at the time. We were informed then that our time in their country was short.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:00 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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Iraq is already occupied. We cannot win because the people we are supposedly there for want us out.
Less than one tenth of a percent form the insurgency, the rest, organized factions wsho are reacting to that less than one tenth of a percent.
No, A lot of people have died for something you're calling free.
Yes, hindsight is twenty twenty. At the time, it was a deal running through and liberating Iraq was it not?
And the US has known for years, even back in 1999 we were going to be kicked out of Saudi Arabia. How do I know? I was there at the time. We were informed then that our time in their country was short.
Exactly. The US gave every opportunity to the Saudis to placate the Jihadists and still, they didn't take action against them nthemselves. Hence, the need to be able to do it from an outside territory. And, suddenly, the Saudis began to deal with them.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:05 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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At the time, it was a deal running through and liberating Iraq was it not?
It is hypocrisy to say we are liberating Iraq when we have been asked by their current president to leave and refuse. That is the opposite of liberating them. That is who I was speaking of when I say the people want us out. The president who they elected with 80% of their population voting, has asked the US to leave their country. That's who he represents, and it's a lot more than one tenth of one percent.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:11 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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It is hypocrisy to say we are liberating Iraq when we have been asked by their current president to leave and refuse.
It sure is. Iraq has been liberated and, now the nation is being helped to rebuild. As for leaving and the president asking the US to leave, has he formally done so? And, what was the US ambassador's reply?
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:13 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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Yes he has, in front of media. Our president ignored the statement, saying we will leave when we are done. (Good and ready)
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:17 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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link please
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:29 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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There was a whole thread of links on this that went somewhat ignored by republican bush backers here Nova. But I have bumped it back up for you.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:33 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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Read the opinion of the President. Nice. When he makes it law, get back to me.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:36 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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Bush himself said we would leave when asked to leave. We have been asked to leave. It really is that simple.
So easy, a caveman could do it.
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:37 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden
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Novalite
Posts: 1,972
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Really, has the government of Iraq offically asked the US to leave? And, when you supply that proof, I have the follow up question of when they passed it through parliament and what the US congress said to the official demand.
[Edited on 4/16/2007 2:41 AM]
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| Apr 16, 2007 @ 2:40 AM |
“Bleed Them Bankrupt” The US according to Bin Laden |
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kjac
Posts: 4,512
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I'd say the president of the country asking us seems like a pretty big request to ignore. But then again, Bush never has been one to care much for facts and truth. Where I come from, we call dishonest people liars.
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