| Apr 22, 2007 @ 7:07 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/tech/main2704552.shtml
....A platoon of retired U.S. generals and admirals warned that global warming "presents significant national security challenges to the United States." The United Nations Security Council held its first-ever debate on the impact of climate change on conflicts. And in Congress, a bipartisan bill would require a National Intelligence Estimate by all federal intelligence agencies to assess the security threats posed by global climate change.
Many experts view climate change as a "threat multiplier" that intensifies instability around the world by worsening water shortages, food insecurity, disease, and flooding that lead to forced migration. That's the thrust of a 35-page report by 11 admirals and generals this week issued by the Alexandria, Va.-based national security think tank The CNA Corporation. The study, titled "National Security and the Threat of Climate Change," predicts:
"Projected climate change will seriously exacerbate already marginal living standards in many Asian, African, and Middle Eastern nations, causing widespread political instability and the likelihood of failed states. ... The chaos that results can be an incubator of civil strife, genocide, and the growth of terrorism.
"The U.S. may be drawn more frequently into these situations, either alone or with allies, to help provide stability before conditions worsen and are exploited by extremists. The U.S. may also be called upon to undertake stability and reconstruction efforts once a conflict has begun, to avert further disaster and reconstitute a stable environment."
"We will pay for this one way or another," retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, former commander of American forces in the Middle East and one of the report's authors, told the Los Angeles Times. "We will pay to reduce greenhouse gas emissions today … or we'll pay the price later in military terms. And that will involve human lives." ....
regardless of the reason for global warming..it is a real concern..
Are you willing to go to war for food and water?
Close our borders and hide behind high walls?
Watch as children starve in third world countries?
In the old days we had movies talking about this..Soylent green..Logan's run The blade runner ... ( not the plots but the "city living" that it portrayed)
Which future do you choose?? 
A brave new world is around the corner..We should choose our leaders carefully as it matters, and it is not too late to reverse this.
But maybe this just more hype, technology will prevail. There is nothing to worry about, life as we know it will be the same for our children and grandchildren.
Or is it a lost cause and we should just keep on dancing like there is no tomorrow ? 
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| Apr 22, 2007 @ 7:37 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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eastham
Posts: 7,907
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Of course it can. Think back to the number of wars/skirmishes which have been fought over access to drinking water.
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| Apr 22, 2007 @ 8:00 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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Novalite
Posts: 3,253
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duplicate post
[Edited on 4/22/2007 8:07 PM]
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| Apr 22, 2007 @ 8:01 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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Novalite
Posts: 3,253
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But maybe this just more hype, technology will prevail. There is nothing to worry about, life as we know it will be the same for our children and grandchildren.
Increasing populations, rape of resourcers in order to profit from the increasing supply of resources to provide for the emerging first world nations of India, China and the like, salinization of land, massive deforrestation allowing soil to errode into the wind, polution of the air and water and now, Global Warming decreasing living space in the poorest of countries along the shorelines as they disappear. Populations with no clue about birth control moving from devastated areas to neighboring countries to seek sustance and placing stress on their already weak infastructures so they too, can begin the downward spiral into destruction. Don't have to be an Einstein to see the potential for strife there.
So, Feliciano, you ask if it is worth going to war for. Is it safe in the hands of people like third world dictators who give no thought for tommorow or, in the hands of radicals who only wish to placate the masses with violent radical religion? That's what will go on in the third world if no aid along with education and the technology to implement that aid as well as the protective military intervention to allow that aid to take root is given.
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| Apr 23, 2007 @ 5:15 AM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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ToucherinSparks
Posts: 6,699
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Are you willing to go to war for food and water?
Close our borders and hide behind high walls?
Watch as children starve in third world countries?
You bet. If it comes down to watching Americans starve or watching 3rd worlders starve, the 3rd worlders lose everytime. If this global warming is as bad as they predict, the USA is going to HAVE to stop giving away food aid, and probably all aid. That means that many of these rinky dink countries that exist on outside aid are going to collapse. It will come down to taking care of ourselves, and let the other people take care of themselves.
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| Apr 23, 2007 @ 7:17 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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stormbay
Posts: 695
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I don't think anything will stop this happening, it's like a snowball rolling down a hill, it will just get bigger until it hits the bottom. I also doubt people realise the real gravity of the situation. The US, like all developed countries will suffer as much, if not worse than many not so developed ones. At the moment it looks like western nations have the technology and know how to get round these problems. But the one thing we can't do is cope with the biological and ecological changes that are now becoming very obvious.
In Australia, water has just about run out, our main river systems are dry. Our mountains don't get any snow, so there is no run of for rivers year round. It's become really bad in just a few months as this dry continent completely dries up. Our biodiversity is collapsing, frogs, insects, birds native animals are disappearing rapidly, from climate change and the effect of 100 years of chemically poisoned land. In the US, it's the same, you are seeing the disappearance of billions of bees and insects across you country. The bees contribute to more than 70% pollinating food crops, they have no other way of doing it. Some of the theories as to why this is happening, chemical fertilisers and poisons, mobile phone towers and communications that emit frequencies effecting insect navigation and kills, or disorientates them. Whole hives are disappearing within a week without trace when they are placed in fields to pollinate.
But this change has yet begun to really happen, so it will be survival of the fittest, no matter where you are. What we call 3rd world countries, contain people who are already living in survival mode already, so even the slightest change will cause devastation. The world drought has been around for at least 20 years, it's just getting worse.
In the US, you are lucky in a way, as we are in Aus, because you only really have to cope with refuges coming across the sea or from Southern America. Like you, we only have to worry about refugees from the sea. But the rest of the world, which has its continents connected, will suffer from massive movements of people, collapsing societies.
As to war, of course it will lead to social instability, sectarian and cultural wars and it will cause civil strife and conflict on an unprecedented scale, world wide
It will be a rough ride for the next 50 years and sadly nothing will be done to change our approach or stop it, humans are just to selfish and ignorant, to do anything sensible for the planet.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 1:42 AM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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Novalite
Posts: 3,253
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I don't think anything will stop this happening, it's like a snowball rolling down a hill, it will just get bigger until it hits the bottom. I also doubt people realise the real gravity of the situation.
I believe that there is a solution even if nothing is done as these problems are self correcting problem to some extent. No food, people die in droves and, less global warming. Unless of course, everything remains equal and all problems reach the terminal point across the globe simultaniously which is highly unlikely. Another point is that petrolium energy will become less availible and thus, less polution from that source.
As for people realising the gravity I agree. They concentrate on some things while others which are part and parcel occur without a peep from them. Global warming for example is less of a problem than the rape and deforestation of coastal lands in the pacific which destroys entire ecosystems. Pop cans and bottles are saved religiously yet rain forrests that could be bought for a dime are burned to make way for cattle. We place smog emissions at great expense on our cars while India China and the entire third world has none yet they are the greatest threat to clean air, and, will increase in polution geometricly.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 2:35 AM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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stormbay
Posts: 695
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I believe that there is a solution even if nothing is done as these problems are self correcting problem to some extent.
That's true, and it may well be at the expense of the human race, or most of it anyway. What I meant was, nothing can be done to stop what will occur, it depends on how drastic nature uses the brakes, to stop our onslaught..
They've already discovered they don't know the timing and every time they think they do, is has accelerated. None of our technology or flimsy knowledge will stop the effects of nature. We are like ants on a stick in a river, rudderless and at the mercy of the appraoching storm.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 3:48 AM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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ToucherinSparks
Posts: 6,699
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What about all the major cites that will be under water due to warming? Rebuilding New Orleans is completely stupid, the water is only going to get higher, and those levies are going to be topped again. It should have been abandoned, the levies dynamited, and let the sea reclaim it.
In the future, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, San Diego, Seattle, and many other cities are going to have the same problems, sea levels will be higher than the land.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 3:49 AM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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Novalite
Posts: 3,253
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None of our technology or flimsy knowledge will stop the effects of nature.
So true however, we can negate the effects by protection and minimizing our effects on it. As well, some nations have the knowhow to help but are helpless as most of the world is self centered in today. Soon, most of the world will not only be wanting to protect resources but grabbing them and using them without thought of protecting them simply because they will have no reason to think they will be there tommorow. I refer to that as the 'Easter Island Syndrome.' Here, people just grab because they feel that if they even think about protecting the resource it will be taken by another.
So, how do you stop the entire third world from thinking this? Already they starve and want first world standards? The sec ond world is drving up the prices of commodities so that the third world sells rights to the dwindling supplies they have despite protectionist policies put forth by the West just so they can live today. It's a nightmare that requires universal agreement and, hate to say it but police action by a unified world. Otherwise, the west will suffer the same fate as those who owned the farms in Greenland - they were the richest and bought themselves the privilidge of being the last to die.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 11:26 AM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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MotownManiax
Posts: 9,737
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Good thread, Felici. 
My take is there won't be a unified, bi-partisan global response to anything until some global crisis emerges that affects "both" industrialized and third-world nations, and are "directly" catastrophic to industrialized countries like the US. Things like global stocks of oil drying up or a global food shortage brought about by massive extinction of pollinating insects like bees. It will have to take a sufficient shock to make democratic governments overrule any objections from their constituents in order to make the tough choices necessary in the interest of the greater good. And that day may not be too far off.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 11:35 AM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,606
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Hiya Mo!! 
Yep, you're right. It's gonna take a heck of a match to light a fire under us.
I was reading about dengue fever in Taiwan...it used to be limited by the fact that the mosquitoes would be killed off during the winters, but the winters are now warm enough that they survive, so the mortality rate from dengue's rising.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 1:53 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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TY everyone...
just something I wanted to add...
...China’s leaders are pressing its auto, steel, manufacturing and other industries to improve energy efficiency and cut pollution.
They see China’s rising reliance on imported oil as a strategic weakness, especially since much of it comes from the politically volatile Middle East and crosses seas beyond Beijing’s control.
China already is the world’s No. 2 oil consumer after the United States and saw imports soar by 14.5 percent in 2006, driven by economic growth that has topped 10 percent for the past four years.
A boom in car sales has added to smog shrouding China’s major cities, which are among the world’s dirtiest. Vehicle sales jumped 25.1 percent last year to 7.2 million units, including 3.8 million passenger cars....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18261452/
and,,,
Wednesday April 11, 6:38 PM
Japan, China commit to post-Kyoto global warming efforts
(Kyodo) _ Japan and China issued a joint statement Wednesday to boost cooperation on 10 specific environment areas, featuring a commitment of "political will" to fight global warming in an envisioned new climate change framework from 2013.
..........The Kyoto Protocol, formulated in 1997 under a U.N. framework, requires industrial countries, including Japan, to cut their greenhouse gas emissions from 1990 levels by an average of 5.2 percent by 2012.
But its effectiveness is being called into question as the pact does not cover major emerging countries such as China and India, while the United States has withdrawn from it, prompting its signatories to negotiate a successor framework.
If China, which is a major emitter of greenhouse gases but is not committed to reductions under the Kyoto Protocol, agrees to participate in the envisioned new anti-global warming framework, it would represent a policy change for the country.
Beijing has so far demanded that only industrial nations be obliged to cut emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. ...
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070411/kyodo/d8oebloo0.html
and,,,
India, Japan sign pact on global warming
AGENCIES[ MONDAY, APRIL 23, 2007 03:40:18 PM]
OKYO: Japan signed a deal on Monday to help fast-growing India fight global warming as the two countries look ahead to a framework after the landmark Kyoto Protocol expires in 2012.
Under the agreement, Japan will invest in India's energy industry and transfer energy-saving technology.
It comes two weeks after Japan sealed a similar agreement with China during a landmark visit here by Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao. ......
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1943277.cms
[Edited on 4/24/2007 2:07 PM]
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 5:46 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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eastham
Posts: 7,907
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What about all the major cites that will be under water due to warming? Rebuilding New Orleans is completely stupid, the water is only going to get higher, and those levies are going to be topped again. It should have been abandoned, the levies dynamited, and let the sea reclaim it.
What should be done is let the bayous recover... The loss of natural wetlands to absorb storm surges was as much of a problem as poorly constructed dikes, and that means not rebuilding the suburbs, not the city of New Orleans.
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 8:54 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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steveemac
Posts: 2,335
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In the future, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, San Diego, Seattle, and many other cities are going to have the same problems, sea levels will be higher than the land.
And then Milwaukee will finally claim it's God-given position as the Center of The Known Universe!! 
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 8:58 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War? |
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bryan2992
Posts: 688
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IF we make it another 50 yrs, without blowing each other up, or the global ecology becoming badly unballanced I forsee a sudden drop in the world population. Look at the chinese culture first, they have a ratio of roughly 10 men to 1 woman, and are only allowed to have one child per family. in their culture the oldest child must be male to take over the family. so in roughly what 50 to 60 yrs their popluation is going to drop dramatically.
in third world countries in africa even as new births are recorded more are being lost to AIDS what are the states there roughly 50% of the population is infected. I may be wrong on the last statistic but it is a large # infected. we have overpopulated the world and now she is going to fix herself, if we like it or not
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| Apr 24, 2007 @ 9:03 PM |
Could Global Warming Cause War?
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0420_040420_earthday.html
National Geographic News
Updated April 26, 2004
.......The real question is what's going to happen to Greenland and Antarctica," Stouffer said. "That's where the bulk of all the fresh water is tied up."
A recent Nature study suggested that Greenland's ice sheet will begin to melt if the temperature there rises by 3 degrees Celsius (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit). That is something many scientists think is likely to happen in another hundred years.
......Overpeck and his colleagues have used computer models to create a series of maps that show how susceptible coastal cities and island countries are to the sea rising at different levels. The maps show that a 1-meter (3-foot) rise would swamp cities all along the U.S. eastern seaboard. A 6-meter (20-foot) sea level rise would submerge a large part of Florida.
.......The complete melting of Greenland would raise sea levels by 7 meters (23 feet). But even a partial melting would cause a one-meter (three-foot) rise. Such a rise would have a devastating impact on low-lying island countries, such as the Indian Ocean's Maldives, which would be entirely submerged.
Densely populated areas like the Nile Delta and parts of Bangladesh would become uninhabitable, potentially driving hundreds of millions of people from their land.
A one-meter sea level rise would wreak particular havoc on the Gulf Coast and eastern seaboard of the United States.
No one will be free from this," said Overpeck, whose maps show that every U.S. East Coast city from Boston to Miami would be swamped. A one-meter sea rise in New Orleans, Overpeck said, would mean "no more Mardi Gras." .......
......
edited for this link
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=43.3251,-101.6015&z=13&m=7
(BTW this map projects in meters not feet)
[Edited on 4/24/2007 9:15 PM]
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