| Dec 23, 2007 @ 12:13 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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jamminjerry
Posts: 3,768
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there will be no fair tax! the rich man will see to that. a fair tax to me is when every entity pays their fair share. let the games begin! again!! the poor man hands somebody else a dollar and gets goods worth 10 cents back! the rich man hands someone else a dollar and gets goods worth 2 dollars back! only a monkey would think that is fair! selah. we be jammin
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 12:20 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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Here's a link to unspinning the Fair Tax.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 1:19 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,526
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So from what I understand, the middle class would get shafted to give the upper class a tax break?
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 1:25 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 4,087
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The FairTax plan, however, helps to alleviate this difficulty by exempting sales taxes on all income up to the poverty level.
This sounds like an accounting nightmare. How do you determine when someone has spent up to poverty level and has to start paying taxes? Or would the prebate be a check the government sends out to everyone (what about someone turning 16 and just starting a job; no prior filed taxes; no prior proof of income; how often is income verified to determine whether or not he pays taxes?)
How about exempting taxes on all necessities like food, basic consumables (soap, laundry detergent, bath tissue), utilities, etc? Then the people who spend the largest portion of their income on necessities don't pay an inordinate percentage of their income in taxes, but those who buy more items considered as luxuries do.
I got into an argument a long time ago with a fair tax proponent. He insisted it was right that we all pay 10% of our income, no matter what our income was. I said that was only fair if a loaf of bread cost me the same percentage of my income as it did him. If 25% of my income bought the same house as 25% of his income, why wouldn't that be fair?
It's all the same old story. Those with more than enough are complaining if they are required to "share." Considering that our taxes go to support our government, it's not only selfish to not want to share, I consider it vaguely unpatriotic to hire an accountant (who you're probably going to pay more than you would save on your tax bill!?!) to figure out how to find another $6 in deductions.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 1:34 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,526
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The analysis of the "prebate" system from factcheck.org says that the agency would be as large and complicated as the IRS agency (especially once you toss in checking for scofflaws).
So the same amount of government revenue, but more regressive, and the same large intrusive government agency...
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 6:49 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,336
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So from what I understand, the middle class would get shafted to give the upper class a tax break? Was this "plan" written by a conservative?
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 6:58 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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DiamondRain
Posts: 4,865
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What is fair about one person paying more for the same thing than you pay?
Why should one person pay $10 for a Big Mac when you pay $3? I don't see anything fair about that.
What is it that "rich" people get from the government that should require them to pay so much more for it than you do?
So you think that someone should have to be a slave, working to earn a lot of money just so they can subsidize you? You have a right confiscate the fruits of their labor just because they are more financially successful than you?
That sounds more like thuggery to me than fairness.
The reality is that "rich" people are the ones who are paying for most everything the government provides for the not "rich" people. How much more do you want to punish them just because they are successful?
And how much more do you think "rich" people will take before they take their money and invest it somewhere else where it isn't taxed as much, taking the jobs of all the people who hate them somewhere else along with it.
This whole class warfare thing that the Democrats are so fond of is the stupidest concept ever invented. Nothing could be worse or more damaging for people of EVERY level of wealth than punishing those who create the opportunities for jobs and upward financial mobility.
Wealth is what creates jobs, creates charitable contributions and creates innovation that increases the welfare and prosperity for EVERYONE.
We should be celebrating wealth and doing everything possible to make sure we support those who achieve it and encourage as much of it to be created as possible.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 7:03 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,526
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Pretty much, the rich get a sense of accomplishment in knowing that they are helping the country to grow strong, through paying for the military, the prison system, the justice system, and so on.
If that's not worth an extra 1 or 2% from the top income-earners, what is? 
Edit:
As an aside: please don't exaggerate the issue. We already "celebrate wealth" enough, as is. We give preferential treatment to the rich in every aspect of their lives, up to and including placing the lives of low- to middle-class taxpayers at risk in wars designed to increase the wealth of the rich. The military budget (which equals almost the rest of the entire WORLD'S military budgets) alone accounts for much of the federal budget.
Hells Bells, they had to invent the Alternative Minimum Tax because the rich wanted all the benefits that mostly accrue to the wealthy, without having to pay the taxes. We still have rich folk off-shoring their money, which middle-class folk can't do.
The poor and middle-class live lives on the knife's-edge of dissolution.
The main reason for "wealth redistribution" is to provide just enough social justice and economic mobility to provide a safety valve for the lower classes. If you don't like it, flee to another country.
[Edited on 12/23/2007 7:29 PM]
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 9:39 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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Nightowl001
Posts: 4,087
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What is fair about one person paying more for the same thing than you pay?
What isn't fair If it takes me 10 minutes of labor to pay for a loaf of bread that they spend 10 minutes working for a loaf of bread? Is their time more valuable than mine because they control wealth?
The vast majority of the people in the top 5% of the wealth brackets never "earned" it. They were born into it. There are exceptions, as to every rule. But damned few. I've known a few executives in my time, and I don't know a damned one of them who "slaved" to get where they're at. Most of them were screwups in college, only got into college because daddy was a legacy, didn't come out with many thousands of dollars in student loans to pay off to try to get ahead. They came out with family connections and got a job making more than most people will ever be able to make in a year, degree or no degree. Go to college, get a Bachelors of Science in Nursing (a BSN) and you can come out expecting to make what? About 60,000 a year. But what if you can't get a degree. You can't handle dealing with sick people. You don't have the intelligence to write a novel, or a screenplay, or come up with an idea for a new product. You have worked as a janitor for 15 years for $18,000 a year. You think out of that $18,000 you've been socking away $2,000 a year in an IRA? You think you're doing that on the average hourly wage in this country of $17 an hour (about $34,000 a year). You think you're sitting in a house you bought for $190,000 that's gone up to $250,000 in value on those wages? You think you were able to save $125,000 for your kid's college education?
I've said before, we are currently in the greatest wealth divide that has existed in the Western world since the late French aristocracy. When the wealth inequality becomes great enough, there will be another revolution by the have-nots against the haves. It is in their own best interests in the long term to make sure that every child is healthy and can get as much education as they can handle. That is what is good for society as a whole. Educated, healthy children don't join gangs. Educated, healthy children don't steal cars and do drugs. (Well, there are the ones who grow up to be Republicans who steal millions from corporations like Ken Lay, Charles Keating and Neil Bush.) But while those same conservatives like catch phrases like "A rising tide lifts all boats," they really could care less whether or not society as a whole becomes a better place, and that is where they are short-sighted and stingy and don't even realize they are torpedoing themselves.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 9:43 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 4,087
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What is fair about one person paying more for the same thing than you pay?
By the way, since I am middle class, there would be a lot of those janitors and burger "producers" paying less than I pay for the same thing. It wouldn't bother me.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 9:53 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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jamminjerry
Posts: 3,768
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until everyone pays their "fair" share there will be no fair tax. give it any name that the rich man can come up with, the tax burden will always be upon the rest. even 5% causes anguish in the board rooms! oops, bored rooms. no matter what dollar changes hands, the rest of us would not complain about 5 cents! alas, we are a capitalist society, until the simians are not seduced by the "be like mike" informercials, we shall continue to be serfs. as always, we be jammin
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 10:01 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,023
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I love reading a republican saying how fair the tax system is in this country!
The rich have it very easy here. They do not serve in the military. Even when there was a Draft they made laws in order to get the rich excused from service! I remember a biggie around 1966 it went like this if you were in college you had a deferment....if you worked for a service connected corporation you were exempt.... if you were married...you were exempt and if you had a connection on the Selective Service Board you could be mysterously put back and never heard from again!
I do wish other Americans would listen to me! We have a great people that are more than willing to die for our country....but, the rich will not do that! The rich can buy what they want when they want it! That is what they do when rich republicans go to congress they put the tax burden on the middle class and the poor! The poor should not have to pay any tax whatsoever! The lower, middle and upper middle class should just pay 25%. The rich the rest!
For you see if there is a war it will be the poor and middle class that will be protecting the richs wealth! So it is only right for the wealthy to be taxed the hell out of! End of story! 
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 10:14 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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jamminjerry
Posts: 3,768
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i have chosen to be christian. we shall bear the burden in common. only God is before us. all else is the law. my teacher fulfilled the law. even until this moment and tomorrow. the pseudochristians prop up the rich man for the crumbs that fall from the table. they shall have their reward. my teacher has said so. the master of this world is angry at true christians. or true islamists, or true witnesses, or true native americans. whatever! the master of this world will forever rail against rightousness. right and wrong, how confusing can that be? the rich man is both republican and democrat. it is simply a game. a game of confusing the simians. selah. we be jammin
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 10:52 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,526
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Another way that the wealthy are "celebrated": The bottom 99% may be the ones whose votes decide who takes political office, but the top 1% decides who's going to run for office.
Which is why we get a bunch of chuckleheads for offices from city dog catcher to POTUSA.
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| Dec 24, 2007 @ 12:55 AM |
fair tax! LOL
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,779
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Actually, rich people would like the so called "fair tax'. They could shop overseas and avoid taxation all together. Remember back in the 90's when congress put a 10% luxury tax on private planes, yachts, cars & jewelry. The tax lasted one year, as tax revenues from these items were cut by 50% in the first year. The yacht industry almost ceased to exist, with thousands of jobs being lost. The rich still had their toys, they just purchased them abroad. They did not suffer, but the people who worked in those industries did. If that happened with a 10% tax, what would happen with a 23% tax?
Also, the fair tax, would only tax purchases, not wealth or things that are leased. It would end the death tax, capital gains and corporate taxation (as most of their purchases are wholesale, not retail). The burden of taxation would be shifted to the consumer, resulting in a higher tax burden on the middle class, who have to spend a very high percentage of their personal income for their day to day living.
The so called fair tax, would also be punative to the younger members of society. If you have already accumulated wealth, then that wealth would remain in your hands, while those who are young and have less, would face a punative burden on making large purchases (like buying a house). In addition, as there would be no deductions, monies given to charity, interest expense on housing and other popular deductions would disapear. (Imagine all the special interest groups that would lose their economic base, when the deductions disapeared from giving to those causes.)
There is nothing fair in the so called "fair tax". It may sound good on the surface, but once you scratch beneath that surface, it not only is regressive, it makes no economic sense.
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| Dec 24, 2007 @ 1:00 AM |
fair tax! LOL |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,526
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The rich didn't get taxed for importing their luxury items from abroad? If I send a gift to my sister in Canada, she has to pay tax on it.
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| Dec 24, 2007 @ 4:21 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,779
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The rich didn't get taxed for importing their luxury items from abroad? If I send a gift to my sister in Canada, she has to pay tax on it.
No, they did not. The tax is a consumption based domestic sales tax. So, buy overseas and avoid the tax. Even if you tried to tax the overseas purchase, many of those items at the highest end of the spectrum would avoid taxation, as the buyer simply would title the purchase in another country. So, if you purchase a private plane, you simply put it in a corporate name and register it in the country in which it is purchased. The same with a private yacht. After all, these items flow in and out of the country on a regular basis. No domestic purchase, means no domestic taxable event. The result, the rich still obtain their toys, the tax revenue from such purchases declines and the American worker who would have manufactured the item loses his job.
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| Dec 24, 2007 @ 10:47 PM |
fair tax! LOL |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,023
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Anything brought into this country must be declared! You must pay duties for this item or items! Bought, sold or owned!
government import duties
tariffs
import duties,tariffs, tax
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| Dec 25, 2007 @ 4:19 PM |
fair tax! LOL
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jamminjerry
Posts: 3,768
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sadly, the simians will continue clinging to their tree and scratching their nutz. we are a capitalistic society, there is little fair about pseudocapitalism. hey monkey! just pull the left handle or the right handle, not that it matters much, keep the line moving. LOL
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| Dec 26, 2007 @ 11:00 AM |
fair tax! LOL |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,110
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Another way that the wealthy are "celebrated": The bottom 99% may be the ones whose votes decide who takes political office, but the top 1% decides who's going to run for office.
Which is why we get a bunch of chuckleheads for offices from city dog catcher to POTUSA
How true this is. 
Amazingly enough, most people do not realize this.
The only problem I have with a "fair tax", is that is probably will NOT be fair to all people and will favor the richest, as usual.
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