| Jan 13 @ 9:27 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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Not at all pretty, but good to be aware of..
Swift Boat Vets Re-Emerge to Wreak Havoc in 2008!
-MM 
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| Jan 13 @ 9:39 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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It's going to be ugly, but at least they've revealed themselves for what they are not -veterans who are committed to truth and not to any one political party. This was always a front for Republican operatives. It's a shame McCain is taking their money, especially as many of these same people were also contributors to the dirty tricks used against McCain in the 2000 South Carolina primary.
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| Jan 13 @ 9:44 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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alivenwell351
Posts: 1,496
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Anyone who has served in combat has earned the right to have their opinions on ANYTHING to do with the state of this nation, to express them as they might see fit, and to damn sure support who they choose to support in any legal way they may choose to do so.....whether you agree with them or not....
In my perfect world, only someone who has experienced combat would have the authority to send others off into combat...and those who passed on their chance to even serve wouldn't even be allowed to have much to do with military affairs at all...
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| Jan 13 @ 10:31 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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Did you actually read the link. The group may embrace the name veteran, but the money and organization behind the group are comprised of neo-con chicken hawks.
T. Boone Pickens, one of the largest contributors to the group with $2-3 million (the amount varies by the source), did not serve in the military.
Bob J. Perry, who was the single largest donor with over $3m also gave another $8.1 million to a variety of 527. Perry was one of the largest contributors to GWB and is a big Republican fundraiser and organizer in Texas. Guess what, no military record.
Carl and Robert Linder are also listed as donors. Carl Linder is probably the real money behind the donations and has previously been cited by the FEC for funnelling his own money through his children. No military service for either man.
Aubrey McClendon is the 8th largest contributor and the president of Chesapeake Energy. No military service.
Merrie Spaeth was the press officer for Swift Boats. She worked in the Reagan Administration as media liaison and was a part of the GWB team in South Carolina to discredit McCain. She has attacked McCain over the years on a variety of environmental issues. No military service.
Jerome Corsi, whom the Swift Boat group hired to pen Unfit for Command has no military service record although he is certainly the right age to have served in Vietnam.
Benjamin Ginsberg, who had to resign as GWB's top election attorney after it was learned he had provided legal services to the Swift Boaters, was the former legal counsel for the RNC also has no military record.
In November 2007, T. Boone Pickens, Jr. issued a challenge to give $1m to anyone who could provide information to disprove the claims of the Swift Boat Veterans. John Kerry announced that same day, he would take the challenge and give the $1m to the Paralyzed Veterans of America. The following day, Pickens "clarified" his offer and stipulated he would only give the money to the Congressional Medal of Honor Foundation.
The Swift Boat Veterans organization contended they had a membership of 250 Swift Boat Veterans and affidavits from these men against Kerry. Many of these men have subsequently claimed they did not read the affidavits they signed and nearly all said that they had no first hand knowledge of Kerry as they never served with him.
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| Jan 13 @ 10:54 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,526
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...and those who passed on their chance to even serve wouldn't even be allowed to have much to do with military affairs at all...
And those who wanted to serve, but were passed over because of one reason or another--what would be there role?
As for:
n my perfect world, only someone who has experienced combat would have the authority to send others off into combat[/quote[
How many of our elected leaders can claim that? Sens. Kerry & McCain, definitely. How many others? Definitely not Bush: his daddy's connections kept him from risking his butt. Definitely not any of the women in office: our rules wouldn't allow any women anywhere within spitting distance of combat.
How about a revision to the rule: No one who hasn't anyone within two degrees of consaguinity who is at risk cannot vote on sending troops into combat. If you're not risking your blood relations, you've no right to risk other people's blood relations.
Or my answer to the constant "draft everyone from ages 18-25, then we'll have the troops to conquer the world and make it safe for American capitalists" plan posted by one individual: Draft all children within two degrees of consaguinity of anyone in the top 5%, train them to be front-line infantry (i.e. no cushy, safe REMF jobs for them), then we'll see how much more military adventures our government gets into.
[quote]Anyone who has served in combat has earned the right to have their opinions on ANYTHING to do with the state of this nation, to express them as they might see fit, and to damn sure support who they choose to support in any legal way they may choose to do so.....whether you agree with them or not....
And any AMERICAN CITIZEN has the right to call them out for being lying assholes, if they prove to be so. Not that we, as Americans, generally get to hear any of the rebuttals to all the propaganda being put out.
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| Jan 13 @ 1:49 PM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,066
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Did you actually read the link. The group may embrace the name veteran, but the money and organization behind the group are comprised of neo-con chicken hawks.
The National Institute For NeoCon Adulation approved this ad.
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| Jan 13 @ 1:55 PM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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Yes, It's imperative the link be read to comprehend the issue here.
This is not about War-Torn Vets honestly speaking their mind in protest.
It IS about Bribes, Lies, Dirty Tricks, selling one's soul to the highest bidder, and very high-scale Character Assassination for the purpose of creating national scandal and misguided outrage.
As a Vet myself, the so-called Swift-Boat Vets turn my stomach! It embarrasses me to even be referred to in similar terms as this group of cheap, Low-Life opportunists.
Yet unfortunately they have turned into a formidable force in American Dirty Politics because bad as it is, it works, and in this case the beneficiary is clear, who himself had his character badly assassinated in 2000, thereby losing his first bid for the presidency, in similar ways, at the hands of the opposing political attack machine. As the article states, seems he learned well from his nemesis-of-old.
The Swift-Boat Vets for Truth should be prosecuted, jailed, and have the key thrown away.
-MM
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| Jan 13 @ 2:04 PM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 7,784
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Anyone who has served in combat has earned the right to have their opinions on ANYTHING to do with the state of this nation, to express them as they might see fit, and to damn sure support who they choose to support in any legal way they may choose to do so.....whether you agree with them or not....
In my perfect world, only someone who has experienced combat would have the authority to send others off into combat...and those who passed on their chance to even serve wouldn't even be allowed to have much to do with military affairs at all...
so alive and well......how does it feel to be duped into forming an opinion ..
there is nothing wrong with how you feel..and it is your right.. but .. they sure did a number on you...
you actually thought their opinion was not to be questioned and had more merit based on the fact that they were veterns...
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| Jan 13 @ 2:12 PM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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He's a link to a story from the Boston Globe in which one of the few Swift Boaters who knew Kerry, retracted his statement. There were others, too, but Elliott is the most famous.
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| Jan 14 @ 1:26 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,066
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One of Kerry's wounds for which he received a Purple Heart was self inflicted. Another of Kerry's wounds for which he received a Purple Heart was so slight, for a splinter in his hand that could have been removed by his own hand, that he refused to do for several hours just so he could return to base with the splinter intact and obtain another Purple Heart wound medal, a "wound" for which the treating military doctor refused to sign the Purple Heart recommendation form, so upon Kerry's insistance, a Nurse (most likely a junior office to him) did it instead. Naturally he pulled the three wounds and you are routed out of combat rule, which of course branded him for the particular kind of sneaky ooze that he is.
The Swift Boat Veterans performed a major public service when they blew the whistle on this demagogic weasel.
I particularly detest John Kerry for his dispicable actions while still in the US Naval service, when he took it upon himself to go to Paris and insert himself into the Paris Peace Talks by meeting privately with the North Vietnamese diplomatic delegation. Please note that it is a federal felony for a private person to "conduct foreign relations." To do so while in the armed forces of the United States is a factor which increases the seriousness of the violation, in my opinion.
John Kerry will perpetually tainted accordingly. The Swift Boat Veterans who came forward and torpedoed John Kerry made a material contribution to the American Presidential electoral process.
JMO
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| Jan 14 @ 3:33 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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Paralegal exclaims:
The Swift Boat Veterans performed a major public service when they blew the whistle on this demagogic weasel.
Wow!! I can't even respond to something like that..
Except to say that people like Karl Rove and company, along with the Swift-Boat Vets, those who concoct the attack-dog schemes, are thrilled to know there actually are people like you out there, who soak it up.
-MM 
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| Jan 14 @ 6:54 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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Gman762
Posts: 3,291
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Hey Para, don't you find it interesting how the sheep always want to change the subject and overlook hard facts when presenting a strange argument?
I particularly detest John Kerry for his dispicable actions while still in the US Naval service, when he took it upon himself to go to Paris and insert himself into the Paris Peace Talks by meeting privately with the North Vietnamese diplomatic delegation. Please note that it is a federal felony for a private person to "conduct foreign relations." To do so while in the armed forces of the United States is a factor which increases the seriousness of the violation, in my opinion.
Truth hurts...and Kerry is a traitor or the first degree, no matter what the Dhim operatives care to say about the messenger. Sad that he cannot be hung for what he is.
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| Jan 14 @ 8:29 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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Except to say that people like Karl Rove and company, along with the Swift-Boat Vets, those who concoct the attack-dog schemes, are thrilled to know there actually are people like you out there, who soak it up.
MM - How do you classify moveon.org and George Soros?
This is the information age MM. Traitors like Kerry cannot get away with his extreme makeover while the lapdog liberal media drools all over him.
It is a new era MM. The truth speaks today!
Thank God!
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| Jan 14 @ 8:57 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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kjac
Posts: 5,484
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Yes, the truth does have a way of catching up with people. If I were the Daily Mail, the idiots who taunted a tiger, George W Bush, or Mike Huckabee, I'd be pretty worried. The truth always comes out in the end.
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| Jan 14 @ 9:01 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 7,784
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what extreme makeover?
para...ya'll talking about the vietnam war. are you rewriting history?
you make it sound like we would have won it if it wasn't for the fact of Kerry's
dispicable actions
do you even remember why there was a Paris Peace Accords in the first place?
here's a hint..
Paris Peace Accords
Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam, signed in Paris and entered into force January 17, 1973.
AGREEMENT ON ENDING THE WAR AND RESTORING PEACE IN VIET-NAM
The Parties participating in the Paris Conference on Viet-Nam,
With a view to ending the war and restoring peace in Viet-Nam on the basis of respect for the Vietnamese people's fundamental national rights and the South Vietnamese people's right to self- determination, and to contributing to the consolidation of peace in Asia and the world,
Have agreed on the following provisions and undertake to respect and to implement them:
Chapter I
THE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE'S FUNDAMENTAL NATIONAL RIGHTS
Article 1
The United States and all other countries respect the independence, sovereignty, unity, and territorial integrity of Viet-Nam as recognized by the 1954 Geneva Agreements on Viet- Nam.
Chapter II
CESSATION OF HOSTILITIES - WITHDRAWAL OF TROOPS,
Article 2
A cease-fire shall be observed throughout South Viet-Nam as of 2400 hours G.M.T. [Greenwich Mean Time], on January 27, 1973.
At the same hour, the United States will stop all its military activities against the territory of the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam by ground, air and naval forces, wherever they may be based, and end the mining of the territorial waters, ports, harbors, and waterways of the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam. The United States will remove, permanently deactivate or destroy all the mines in the territorial waters, ports, harbors, and waterways of North Viet-Nam as soon as this Agreement goes into effect.
The complete cessation of hostilities mentioned in this Article shall be durable and without limit of time.......
as for what Kerry was doing in Paris..
Prior to the discovery of the Circular, there was no direct evidence that Hanoi was actually steering the U.S. antiwar movement's activities by conveying Hanoi's goals and wishes to movement leaders during their frequent visits to Paris, though many investigators had assumed that to be the case. Further analysis of this document supports the contention that Madame Binh used her Paris meeting with John Kerry to instruct him on how he and the VVAW might best serve as Hanoi's surrogates in the United States. In the spring and summer of 1971, a key strategy of Hanoi was to advance what was known as Madame Binh's Seven Point Peace Plan.
The plan was cleverly constructed to force President Nixon to set a date to end the Vietnam War and withdraw American troops. According to the 7-Point Peace Plan of Madame Binh, the only barrier to Hanoi setting a date to release American Prisoners of War was President Nixon’s unwillingness to set a specific date for military withdrawal.
and tell me that this is not biased??.... 
Conclusion
The newly uncovered documents help clarify the relationship of the North Vietnamese, the Vietcong, the PCPJ, the Communist Party of the USA, and John Kerry's VVAW. They indicate that these organizations worked closely together, using the Paris Peace Talks as a central point of communication, to employ the strategy and tactics devised by the Vietnamese communists to achieve their primary objective: the defeat of the United States of America in Vietnam.
-- by Jerome R. Corsi and Scott Swett
~ link ~
~ link ~
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| Jan 14 @ 9:13 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,526
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You know, PAL, you've really got to learn how to do your own research...
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| Jan 14 @ 9:36 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,066
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You know, PAL, you've really got to learn how to do your own research...
OK!
A major theme of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) in 1971 involved sending representatives to Paris and to Hanoi to meet with communist leaders.
John Kerry has admitted to meeting in 1970 in Paris with Madame Nguyen Thi Binh, the Foreign Minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government, the "waiting-in-the-wings government" ready to take over South Vietnam once the Communists won. The Viet Cong operated as the military arm of the PRG. Kerry also met with representatives of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, the official name of the North Vietnamese communist government in Hanoi. North Vietnam's lead delegate at that time was Le Duc Tho, who along with Ho Chi Minh was one of the original founders of the Communist Party of Indochina and one of North Vietnam's chief strategists.
On June 16, 1971, the communist Daily World newspaper quoted Kerry. . . Newly released FBI files on the VVAW also report that John Kerry made a second trip to Paris in the summer of 1971 to meet again with the Vietnamese communist peace delegations and try to arrange a prisoner release.
The national VVAW leadership gathered in Kansas City from Friday, November 12, through Sunday, November 14 for a raucous meeting. Sparks started flying a couple of hours into the meeting when Steering Committee member Al Hubbard arrived from the airport by taxicab. Hubbard, . . had just returned from Paris where he had met with the Vietnamese communist delegations to the Paris Peace Talks. Hubbard reported that he had just concluded negotiations with the Vietnamese Communists and they were ready to release a group of American POWs to the VVAW, provided that the VVAW would send a delegation to Hanoi around Christmas. Hubbard told the group that the Communist Party USA had paid for his trip.
VVAW national staff member Joe Urgo was up next. According to an FBI report filed on November 24, 1971, Urgo reported that he had traveled to Hanoi in August 1971 to work directly with North Vietnamese leaders. Urgo brought home proposals for the VVAW to: (1) create tapes to be sent to North Vietnam for broadcast over Radio Hanoi urging US servicemen to stop fighting in Vietnam, and (2) send a delegation to Hanoi to negotiate the release of American POWs, a proposal that echoed Hubbard's report from Paris.
The now public FBI record clearly indicates that the VVAW of November 1971 had come under communist influence and was acting directly with the enemy to work against US military objectives in the war. Not only was the VVAW continuing to undermine support for the war in the United States through its false claims of war crimes and atrocities, but now the VVAW was negotiating with America's enemies to effect the release of POWs to enhance their credibility as an organization, and actively encouraging soldiers in the field to refuse orders to engage the enemy in combat.
This appears to violate US Code 18 USC 953, which directly forbids US citizens from negotiating with foreign powers, as well as Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution, which defines treason as giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war.
It is clear that the VVAW leaders understood the seditious nature of their activities -- they relocated twice to avoid surveillance by government authorities. That turned out to be a vain hope, since the FBI had multiple informers inside the meeting. They then debated and voted down a proposal to assassinate several pro-war US Senators. John Kerry, who until recently claimed to have resigned from the VVAW the previous June, was also present for this session according to the FBI files and a number of eyewitnesses. Senator Kerry now says he remembers nothing of the Kansas City meeting.
As a member of the Naval Reserve Lt John Kerry in 1970 was subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. In section 904 article 104 the U.C.M.J. states:
Any person who--
(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly; shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.
Under part 2 above Kerry's communication with enemy representatives in Paris is a clear violation. Please note that communicating with the enemy is not a minor technical offense. It is a capital crime; one which carries a potential death sentence.
18 U.S.C. § 953:
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both....
[Edited on 1/14/2008 9:44 AM]
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| Jan 14 @ 11:49 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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It is a new era MM. The truth speaks today!
I see no trends in that direction. In fact quite the opposite.. I see things as much worse than ever! Only dedicated Bushies and the extreme right-wing believe that way. How anyone ever got to be a dedicated Bushie (even a right-winger) is beyond me!! There's no logic in that position.
Bush and Cheney are still in power for instance. Arguably the biggest liars of all time. I don't really think they themselves know what the truth is anymore..
I don't think much of any attack machine who lies and schemes to accomplish an unsavory agenda. And that would include extremists and liars on both sides. And no, I don't find a certain amount of that acceptable, or part of the times.
-MM 
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| Jan 14 @ 11:59 AM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!!
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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MM - stop all of your Bushie non sense. He is not running for election. The liberal media has been the lapdog for you and your lefties for years.
I am sure it is shocking to you that in recent years there has been a trend in the other direction. You will get over it. The internet will not allow liberal lapdog liars like Dan Rather to get away with their crap. As you can see he has finally been shut up.
Kerry is a fraud! Finally there is a venue for the truth to be told. We know that the voters of MA do not care. They have reelected a murderer to Senate for years. That was a typical example of the liberal media covering up for one of their leaders. Reelecting a traitor is no big deal to the Dems in MA.
It does not matter who funds the Swift Boat Vets. Just as you do not care that a criminal like Soros funds moveon.org.
It is the new playing field. Stop whining.
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| Jan 14 @ 12:06 PM |
Once Again Raising Their Ugly Heads - The Unsavory Swift Boat Set!! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,066
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Notice that once again, my facts have been ironclad, irrefutable, and on point.
Everytime I post a section from a lawbook or case law court decision, or reveal the real unsavory truth that "scatters their chickens" about a Leftist Politician, no one makes a comment on the merits of my post, they just duck and cover, and when a couple of frames of new comments are posted, thats when they raise their Liberal heads out of their holes like Prairie Dogs and start with the same old crappola as if they had not been debunked or the conservative point well-proven.
Its a telling example of how they are impervious to truth.
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