| Feb 18 @ 4:35 PM |
CDC Suppressed Toxic Trailer Warnings
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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because it's more profitable; haven't you been paying attention?
since when does the government engage in profit?
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| Feb 18 @ 6:53 PM |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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because it's more profitable; haven't you been paying attention?
since when does the government engage in profit?
When Haley Barbour is involved. Turning from Louisiana to Mississippi, the former lobbyist Governor's office asked for and was given a waiver of the Community Service Block Grant funds awarded to the state after being devastated by Katrina.. Barbour will be allowed to use $600 million of the $5.5 billion dedicated to Mississippi to subsidize a port project to build casinos and high end condos. As a lobbyist, Barbour had a long relationship with the gaming industry and his former chief of staff was a longtime employee of the American Gaming Association (the casino's lobbying group).
And what was the initial purpose of the $600 million granted to Mississippi? To replace low-income housing destroyed by Katrina.
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| Feb 18 @ 7:11 PM |
CDC Suppressed Toxic Trailer Warnings
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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eastham - your post has nothing to do with the statement that you quoted.
Not at all.
We all know that you will put a anti Republican spin on anything - even the sunrise.
Try to keep it in context.
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| Feb 18 @ 7:20 PM |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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I am on the mark, Iam.
Rather than using the $600 million earmarked for affordable housing, which would have gotten individuals who have lived in FEMA trailers longer than your friend did, the governor of Mississippi reallocated the money away from low-income housing toward the construction of a casino and expensive condos.
The state realizes far more revenue from the casino and the condos and doesn't have to fork out any more dollars for those pesky poor people are is income positive (the government's version of profit). Furthermore, the governor, who has raked in donations from the gaming industry, will continue to do so in the future.
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| Feb 18 @ 7:24 PM |
CDC Suppressed Toxic Trailer Warnings
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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you completely missed the mark again eastham -
here is the entire comment -
Why is our government allowing this material to be used, even though it is a proven toxic substance?
Because it's more profitable; haven't you been paying attention?
Try to stay on topic!
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| Feb 18 @ 7:35 PM |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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And I'm still on topic. It is more profitable to keep poor folks in toxic trailers, people who as a rule are less likely to sue, and take the money allocated for new low income housing.
Furthermore, the manufacturers of the trailers and FEMA have flunked audits. Both have failed to provide documentation for over $60 million in expenditures for trailers in Mississippi alone.
Someone is certainly profitting by this debacle, and its not the poor people breeding cancer cells.
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| Feb 18 @ 7:37 PM |
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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blablablablabla!
Keep spinning eastham! 
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| Feb 18 @ 8:03 PM |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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Gallows: I fail to see the relevance.. these trailers are not designed to be permanent housing...Fema was faced with an emergency..and emergency solutions were implemented...
Exactly! 
...This was discussed to death in an earlier thread last year. There is a notice for all inhabitants to periodically open the windows and air the trailers out. Like all new construction, there will always be formaldehyde released; even in new homes.
...2 -1/2 years after Katrina, 40,000 are still living in FEMA "emergency trailers?" I don't think those folks are considered an emergency situation any longer. Time to get a job (or two), join society and pay their taxes like the rest of us have to do.
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| Feb 18 @ 8:21 PM |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,336
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blablablablabla! I have this image of "emoticon-boy" with his fingers in his ears, yelling: "I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
And I'm still on topic. But you're not on the topic his nibs wants you on...
[Edited on 2/18/2008 8:33 PM]
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| Feb 18 @ 8:32 PM |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,336
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... or an inefficient one that pulls outside air in, heats it up, and blows it into the rooms.
This one would replace the stale contaminated air with new air from the outside.. especially if one opened a window on the far side of the heater vents a crack
So when I go to put down my hard-earned money on a trailer so I can enjoy some economical vacation time with my family (who I love very much, and prefer not to expose to toxins), I should be sure an ask the salesman, "Is this a forced-air heater that circulates air from the outside? 'Cause I need to know if the formaldehyde seeping from the particle board in the construction will be vented out some way." I'm pretty sure s/he's gonna say, "There's nothing unsafe about this trailer!" and/or merely sell me the most expensive heater they have.
And as far as opening a window: I don't have to do that in my 95 year old house to be safe, why the hell should I have to do that in my brand new trailer? I'm not shelling out for propane to heat the outside!
The real point is that if our government -or any part therof- KNOWS something is hazardous to our health, why the f**k is it allowed on the market? This is supposed to be the most prosperous nation on Earth; if something is dangerous, NOBODY gets to sell it, buy it, or build it here.
Or is that unpatriotic?
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| Feb 18 @ 10:18 PM |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,230
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Steve, if you have carpet, it's in there. If you have furniture, it is in there. If you have any kind of wood on your walls or cabinets, it is probably in there too.
Fire retardent stuff is bad too.
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| Feb 18 @ 10:54 PM |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,023
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steveemac...said this..."The real point is that if our government -or any part therof- KNOWS something is hazardous to our health, why the f**k is it allowed on the market? This is supposed to be the most prosperous nation on Earth; if something is dangerous, NOBODY gets to sell it, buy it, or build it here.
Or is that unpatriotic?"...!!
Because like you and everyone but a coupla other posters on this thread know, the lower the costs the higher the profits! We don't care if it kills you and your family! We were able to realize 65% profit from that sale and that is all that matters! 
General Motors for years knew they had a problem with their best selling vehicle their pick-up truck. It had a gas tank on the side of the bed and it was exposed to any hit into the left side! They would settle every case that came to them and force the plaintiff to sign an agreement they could not divulge anything about the settlement! This went on for years before it finally broke to the public. GM then moved the tank inside the frame for more protection! Finally they did reach an agreement that anyone owning one of those trucks would get 1,000 dollars off of a new chevy truck! But, did not remove these trucks from the road however! Then there was the Ford Pinto, Mercury Bobcat, Chevy Corvair, Chevy Vega and a host of other accidents looking for a place to happen!
When it comes down to it the corporations buy off our congressmen and senators! There is no end until we make it end!
And right now everyone of our candidates running for president are already bought and paid for! Just look at whom is contributing....just disgusting!
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| Feb 19 @ 12:27 AM |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,336
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if you have carpet, it's in there. If you have furniture, it is in there. If you have any kind of wood on your walls or cabinets, it is probably in there too.
Fire retardent stuff is bad too.
The question I'm posing is: SHOULD IT BE? If we KNOW something is harmful, is it right to allow it to continue to be put out there for human use, simply because it's "too expensive" to come up w/an alternative? We've done it in the past:
-Leaded Gasoline
-Freon
-Asbestos
-Lead Paint
All of these were outlawed because of their harmfulness, and the Republic survived; if the formaldehyde in travel-trailers is poisonous enough to cause this uproar/alleged coverup, maybe it's time to come up with an alternative? Dammit, we sent men to the freakin' Moon for Heaven's sake, I think this is possible!
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| Feb 19 @ 3:23 AM |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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...If you are willing to pay $10K more for your travel trailer, I am sure you can have everything metal, maybe wool carpet, etc.
...The rest of us will opt for airing the cheaper model out once in awhile, until all of the formaldehyde is released. Or better yet, just buy the thing in the winter, when they are even cheaper, park in the garage with it's windows open and ready for spring, virtually formaldehyde free!
...Millions of people go without air conditioner in this country and emergency FEMA folks can open their windows, save the taxpayer for utilities and be perfectly safe.
...As a matter of fact, FEMA can cease installing air conditioners right now and end of story. After all, it is temporary housing, not permanent... give them some fans.
...Or, FEMA can mandate a time frame for each trailer to "cure," as in the travel trailers above and people can wait until one is available; although by now, there should be about a 100,000 of them laying around someplace. 
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| Feb 19 @ 5:50 AM |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,336
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The rest of us will opt for airing the cheaper model out once in awhile, until all of the formaldehyde is released. Or better yet, just buy the thing in the winter, when they are even cheaper, park in the garage with it's windows open and ready for spring, virtually formaldehyde free!
Which begs the question: how do "the rest" of you know to open the windows and air the thing out all winter? WHO TOLD YOU THIS NEEDED TO BE DONE? And why weren't the people of New Orleans told to do this?
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| Feb 19 @ 9:59 AM |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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General Motors for years knew they had a problem with their best selling vehicle their pick-up truck. It had a gas tank on the side of the bed and it was exposed to any hit into the left side!
Mercury cars were like that for a few years in very recent times. Only the exposure was being hit from the rear, often causing the tank to explode. Not sure if that's still a problem with current models or not.
But here's my question. Similar to Steve's in a way:
Are we concluding that the problem with the FEMA trailers is normal? That it's to be expected with such a product? Because I was of the impression it was a LOT more serious than that. That it was very ABnormal and one would not usually be exposed to those levels of toxicity in the case of a trailer, mobile home or a camper.
I have moved into a couple of new homes however, (not trailers) and had very high levels of chemical in the air, sometimes to the point it was a bit hard to breathe, just being inside. Apparently formaldehyde. Is this the same thing then? Because other new homes have not had that problem..
-MM
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| Feb 19 @ 10:49 AM |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,230
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It is normal MM. Even if your new home isn't a Modular or a trailer, it is the newer materials in the house. This is where if you build a house from the bottem up, you can have a choice on the materials that are used.
Even the wood for the framing can have toxins in them.
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| Feb 19 @ 10:57 AM |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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Hmm.. Okay.. Thanks Katts.. So it is merely what we often experience in a number of cases..
And in that event one should choose what, instead of what?
Hope that's a fair question, and not too  ..
-MM
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| Feb 19 @ 12:38 PM |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 7,784
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good question MM... the easy answer is.. living is hazardous..and eventually you die from it.. there are no right choices..except just one - making the best of what is available.. ( read the warning labels already provided..( or if there are none ask for the MSD sheet ( (is this just a california thing???) ..)
Like everything the government touches.. common sense seems to fliy out the window in their attempt to "make it better" and solutions are put on the table to put out fires and sometimes are not thought out ..
Fema is one of them...
this trailer issue is a prime example.. the misdirection of federal funds earmarked for housing is another..( good post eastham..)
here is my take on this.. Fema wanted to close out the Katrina aid at this time.... but knew that the would be hung from the nearest tree if they did just that..
so it was easier to plant these stories about a known issue to be able to finally justify the end of fema participation in the Katrina disaster.. AND..to get HUD and the state to finally step in and take over the housing issues of their people.
also..as..Eastham pointed out...for the tornado's..they are still using these trailers for emergency shelter.. ( and imho..rightly so...)
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| Feb 19 @ 2:19 PM |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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...Paulison says that no matter the cost, "we" will find these people new housing before this coming summer...
Of the original 140,00 trailers, only about 35,000 are still occupied, and many of these are on private property, usually the occupants’ driveways. The truly vulnerable trailer population consists of former renters who are still living in FEMA parks — playgrounds, churchyards and the like — because they have no place to go. Mr. Paulison pledges to find these people new housing before the summer months, regardless of cost. He’d better. Louisiana’s summer humidity will make formaldehyde accumulations far worse. Regardless of Cost...
Stevee Which begs the question: how do "the rest" of you know to open the windows and air the thing out all winter? WHO TOLD YOU THIS NEEDED TO BE DONE? And why weren't the people of New Orleans told to do this?
...It was and is posted on the doors for the FEMA people, but being hot, they would rather have air conditioned, than open windows.
...If you wear wash and wear clothes, you probably have formaldahyde on your body.
...When you go and look for that new travel trailer, look and see if there is any information posted.
...You can often smell it when you walk into new construction, mobile homes, etc. Depending on the length of time to build, shorter time frame construction smells like you just walked into a mortuary; whereas slower built stick frame homes, etc., have had time to air out during the construction period.
“The industry uses low-emitting materials, so formaldehyde has not been an issue for 15 or 20 years at least,” he said. Broom acknowledged that the high heat and humidity in the Gulf Coast could increase the rate of formaldehyde “outgassing” from wood products trailers, but added that ventilation should quickly take care of any problem. “You can get it to dissipate very easily if you just ventilate it,” he said. “People may just need to be shown how to open the windows.” http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_88_21540_1/Fema_Trailers_Toxic.html
.. .Or in another perspective, most users of Equal, Nutrasweet, Equal Measure, etc., consumes over 30 times the recommended EPA levels of formaldehyde, via the breakdown of aspartame to methanol to formaldahyde in the body. This does not include foods and drinks that contain aspartame. ...Add that formaldahyde is in fingernail polish remover, jello, cleansing products, certain gloves, etc... and yes, even in farts and tobacco smoke, or most anything organic that is burning and it is everywhere. ...So, use Equal in your coffee and drink a few sodas containing aspartame and eat a few items cooked with same and you could very easily consume over 100 times the daily EPA limitations of formaldahyde. Have a few smokes, remove the fingernail polish off your fingers, etc... and who knows how much formaldehyde you have consumed. Underneath your fingernails is about as quick a way to your bloodstream, other than a mainline IV, that I know of. ...For some, one of the side effects of formaldehyde poisoning is not too bad and compares to a popular diet. Your body goes into ketosis, or acidosis and exactly what the Atkin's Diet program does in your body to burn fat cells with low carb diets. You can smell it on their breath, as a distinct smell that you will never forget. ...But, guess what the antedote is? ... good ol moonshine; ethanol... so drink up folks! http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_88_21540_1/Fema_Trailers_Toxic.html |
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