| Feb 12 @ 2:35 PM |
Tax Rebates: Thank Me Here
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blueyes101
Posts: 8,306
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I tried asking this question in General forums but no one actually answered it. They all said touchy feely stuff like, my family makes me feel rich. ect.........
I'm a realist, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the rich makes the world go round... ( so to speak of course ). 
There is no real economy without the rich.....
You can buy a canoe for $300 or a $300,000,000 yacht. How many jobs are created by each?
You can buy a bike for $100 or a $1,000,000,000 sports car...
You can rent an apartment for $300 or you can own a $30,000,000 mansion. ( both are owned by the same guy )
It seems to me, we need them as much as they need us....... Besides, my goal is to be rich one day too.... It is only then, we too can choose to help others....... but I hope we only choose those who choose to help themselves, and not those who stand and wait for another handout.
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| Feb 12 @ 2:44 PM |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,230
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I was listening to a radio program that said even the very rich are cutting back. Some instead of eating out are actually buying food and cooking it at home. They are also not buying the expensive cars like they would normally do.
Of course, I imagine these rich people are the ones that had to work to get where they are.
So, it is trickling down even from the top!
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| Feb 12 @ 2:52 PM |
Tax Rebates: Thank Me Here
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blueyes101
Posts: 8,306
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Exactly Katt, and if you look at where the Al gore types want to take this country with this global warming crap, they are going to put this economy in a downward spiral.
I say this because it makes me sick to watch this man fly around in private jets using more fuel in one hour than the average person uses in an entire year....... and tells us to cut down our consumption......
Right now the temps are in the single digits, a typical Michigan winter, as you well know........ This scare tactic will never improve our economy.....
You can keep taxing the rich, but like you said, eventually they will cut back on other things as well...... Just where exactly will that leave us?
If the rich become middle class, just where do you think the middle class will go? 
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| Feb 12 @ 2:54 PM |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,230
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From what I hear, there might end up being no middle class some day!
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| Feb 12 @ 3:05 PM |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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I've been semi-rich and I've been poor, and it's my firm belief that rich is better.. 
However having said that,
It seems to me, we need them as much as they need us....... Besides, my goal is to be rich one day too.... It is only then, we too can choose to help others....... but I hope we only choose those who choose to help themselves, and not those who stand and wait for another handout.
I wholeheartedly agree. I would only add "those who cannot help themselves". If one cannot share the wealth with those who truly need it, at least to a reasonable degree of sacrifice, then it's most unfortunate they are so blessed.
Because wealth was not meant to be hoarded. It was, in my view, meant to be shared with one's fellow man, where appropriate.
-MM 
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| Feb 12 @ 3:07 PM |
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blueyes101
Posts: 8,306
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Thats called socialism..... Those at the top hand out all to those at the bottom. And say it is for their own good.
This reminds me of how much I really hate the word..... " FAIR ". Because nothing is fair....... ever !!!!!!!
Two people can eat the exact same diet and one will get fat...... NOT FAIR >>>>
Two equal people can apply for a job, one gets it...... one doesn't....... Not Fair..
two teams play a good game, one team wins one loses....... Not fair... and to some the solution is to not keep score...... ok, maybe the kids are 5, but what happens when they get the situations above?
The fact is, some people work harder than others, some are more successful...... Very few hide their money in the backyard and live as a miser his or her whole life.
It takes money to make money, I believe this is where class envy comes from.
But I find it very destructive.
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| Feb 12 @ 3:11 PM |
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blueyes101
Posts: 8,306
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Correct MM....... when I said and not those who stand and wait for another handout. I really do NOT mean those those who cannot help themselves, most people I know who truly deserve what they are given, give back whenever possible..... But you are correct, I should have made a better distinction. 
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| Feb 12 @ 3:13 PM |
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Bluebonnet72
Posts: 2,761
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If the rich become middle class, just where do you think the middle class will go? we have the same dilemma here in Italy !
the rich rich remains rich rich
the well off becomes average
the average becomes poor
the poor....... dies of hunger 
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| Feb 12 @ 3:17 PM |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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Katt said:
From what I hear, there might end up being no middle class some day!
The moat is rapidly becoming wider as we speak.. There are a lot of reasons for that, but the list is too long to post here.
Among them at the top of the list, however, are rampant free trade agreements, gone all out of control, and massive illegal immigration. Both lower the average lifestyle of the Middle Class, by cutting jobs and lowering wages, while inflation continues upward..
-MM
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| Feb 12 @ 3:19 PM |
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blueyes101
Posts: 8,306
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I truly think we need someone who understands business and not politics to be our next president.
We need this country to be run like a business, not a condo association.
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| Feb 12 @ 3:39 PM |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,023
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Our government is not a business! It has no bottom line and no investors! It has people, infrastructure and social issues it must help with! Therefore, taxes are needed to fund these programs!
Some states do not have the tax base to handle huge projects like hydroelectric dams, waterway projects, interstate highways and other programs too numerous to mention!
The very thought of running this country like a business would make Texas, California and New York the mega places to live as they have the largest tax base! While Nevada, Montana and the Dakotas would look like the old west with wagon trails and mud!
Our problems come from the buying of influence and votes at the congressional level and the Black House! Kinda like that Alaskan Senator, now involved in corruption up to his eyeballs, building a several hundred million dollar bridge to no-where!
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| Feb 12 @ 3:52 PM |
Tax Rebates: Thank Me Here |
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thegoodideaman
Posts: 1,915
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I truly think we need someone who understands business and not politics to be our next president.
We need this country to be run like a business, not a condo association.
in a large business when times look tough,
you make cutbacks, you get rid of people...
I'm sure tat's not what your suggesting...
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| Feb 12 @ 4:34 PM |
Tax Rebates: Thank Me Here
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blueyes101
Posts: 8,306
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Cutting back spending, and sending illegal aliens back to Mexico doesn't sound like all that bad of idea to me. Pulling the plug on career criminals/murderers would save a few bucks and, make room for more.
Do you really think licking your finger and sticking it into the wind is the way to run this country? Running this country requires someone who can make hard decisions, and stick to them, trying to do what is best for the entire country, not guarding party lines regardless of the outcome... Our economy has a major impact on the worlds economy. Every government has income and outcome. Balancing this requires more than political experience, if you don't call it a business, what do you think it is ?
I'm tired of running it like a social program.
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| Feb 12 @ 4:51 PM |
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thegoodideaman
Posts: 1,915
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I'm tired of running it like a social program.
I know what you mean,
but like it or not...
a Country is a "social program"
Social
"We the People"...
"of the people, by the people, for the people"...
we don't run a Country inhabited by Universal Widgets, do we? 
I suppose, we as a "Society/Civilization could decide some people are undesirable, or useless...
we could herd them into camps for Orderly Disposal...
has that ever been tried?
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| Feb 12 @ 5:01 PM |
Tax Rebates: Thank Me Here
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 7,784
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thank you...good idea man... I am sitting here reading his sound bits and just shaking my head... 
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| Feb 12 @ 5:11 PM |
Tax Rebates: Thank Me Here |
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thegoodideaman
Posts: 1,915
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ah... he's probably right...
people make running a country damned inconvenient...
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| Feb 12 @ 5:22 PM |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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Napa wrote:So what social programs do you not approve of? Social Security? Medicare? Given the dissolution of the multi-generation household, how do you intend to care for the elderly? ...FICA, comprised of social security and Medicare was initiated and prescribed for the old, the retired, but goes into the General Fund. The last time I looked it up, FICA pays some 40% annual of the Federal Governments expenditures.
...An ago old issue, if FICA was put aside, invested in even government bonds, there would be $Trillions in the fund. Come on, it is pulling in 15.3% of ever dollar earned from everyone that works, or has an income.
...FICA is not a social program, but a forced tax for retirement that is not going where it belongs, but to the General Fund to support fiscal expenditure. It is no different than you or I borrowing from our IRA, 401, etc. to pay our monthly bills. Our politicians do not even subscribe, as they have created their own retirement fund.
Napa wrote: Welfare? It's been pretty much dismantled. The reforms of the last twenty years have been brutal. There's now a maximum lifetime benefit, if I recall correctly. ...Proposed to dismantle, as the words of the programs may have changed, but they are still here. But, the Feds have gotten a little smarter, in that like for Illegals, the local entity picks up the slack. Unfair, as in the States with high Illegals, the people are not equally represented by tax dollars paid.
Napa wrote:Unemployment? It's similarly brutal. People are tossed off the rolls at the drop of a hat, even when their regions are economically depressed. And the cost of moving to a new region can be prohibitive. ...When the Feds allow 30 or 40 million Illegals in this country and dilute the wages of everywhere they are, dilute the living style of every US citizen, employers go with the cheapest labor and in fact, endorsed by the Feds to do so. The employer cannot tell who is who and discrimination has some heavy penalties.
...Unemployment is paid by the Employer into a fund with the State. It varies by the individual company's history of how many were laid off prior, but paid for by the Employer. Sometimes the Feds do step in and subsidize an extension beyond 26 weeks, but it is a fund that floats back and forth from State to Fed and Fed to State.
...Regardless, the incentive is there for the Employer to retain employees, as their unemployment tax drops accordingly.
Napa wrote:The whole "people are getting rich off of the feeding trough" meme has been done to death. While it may have some validity, it doesn't have the same ring of truth as in decades past. The majority of the social safety net is Social Security and Medicare, and any plans to scrap either is both heartless and doomed to failure.
...Sadly, those that have paid in their 15.3% of gross wages all their lives, are sharing this forced retirement fund with Illegals, those that refuse to work, anyone on any form of disability, children of those killed, etc.
...The FICA fund should be for those that have actually funded this entity and everyone else should be paid from other Federal programs created, or to be created.
...It is like you pay into your IRA all your life and the Feds come in and take half of it to support their newly created program to help others; millions of others that because of Fed negligence, are here to begin with.
...No, the incentive here is to cause the working Middle class to become the same as the Poor class through forced distribution and eventually, there is no incentive for anyone to prosper.
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| Feb 12 @ 5:22 PM |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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answer this......
what is a business/country made up of? only widgets, machines, or is it run by people and worked by people...show me 1 business/country that there are no people that are working/living in it to keep it afloat/open/viable .......
If the business/country is not working/productive there are no jobs/people so no need for people/jobs...if there are no jobs/people there is no business/country no products/services or need for them......
it goes back to "if no one is in the forest when a tree falls does it make a noise"
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| Feb 12 @ 5:26 PM |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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Good wrote:I suppose, we as a "Society/Civilization could decide some people are undesirable, or useless...we could herd them into camps for Orderly Disposal...has that ever been tried?
...We don't have to make it so easily available, that we have an open jar of honey inside the house, but leave all the doors and windows open and expect to keep the flies out.
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| Feb 12 @ 5:41 PM |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 7,784
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...We don't have to make it so easily available, that we have an open jar of honey inside the house, but leave all the doors and windows open and expect to keep the flies out
where??
back on topic... the least amount one can earn and qualify for the tax rebate is 3000 dollars.. the most one can make is 75,000 dollars.. if some one made 2999.99 they are SOL.. if they made 75.001 dollars they don't get the 600 dollars..
basic math again..
75,000. / 365 days =205 dollars a day...we are talking only 3 days here to make 600 dollars ... 
3000 / 365= 8.21 a day... or ..73 days to make 600 dollars
(remembering too.. the low end will get 300 dollars??)
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