| Feb 16 @ 2:52 AM |
Count Every Vote
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,626
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Remember that mantra. It was the theme of the democrats in the disputed outcome of the 2004 presidential election in Florida. Now, it seems that the dems have decided to Count None of the Votes in Florida. It is a bit ironic how perspectives change, when the politics change.
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| Feb 16 @ 6:50 AM |
Count Every Vote |
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Gman762
Posts: 3,007
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Hillary is going to need every Florida vote if she expects to stand a chance of winning 
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| Feb 16 @ 7:26 AM |
Count Every Vote
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eastham
Posts: 5,963
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Not quite the full picture. The last I heard, both Florida and Michigan violated DNC rules for their primaries; however, the state parties are expected to caucus and will parse out the delegates based on the primary vote. There are other ways as well for the DNC to certify the delegates and given how close the race is, I would expect they will find a way to ratify the vote count.
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| Feb 16 @ 8:36 AM |
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Gman762
Posts: 3,007
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Remember that mantra. It was the theme of the democrats in the disputed outcome of the 2004 presidential election in Florida.
Almost correct.
What they wanted to do in the 2000 election was to keep recounting votes until they achieved the result that they wanted...then quit counting, LOL. Thank God that the SC stepped in and told the wankers to piss off.
You can bet your sweet bottom side that Hillary and crew will get these votes counted in the final analysis. Don't know about you, but I'm going to take particular delight in watching the Dhimm party tear themselves apart right up until the convention trying to get those votes counted. 
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| Feb 16 @ 8:39 AM |
Count Every Vote
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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AL Shakedown Sharpton has already warned the DNC that should they try to count FL or Mich in any way shape or form there will be mass demonstrations on the DNC.
I suspect that this will turn back the clock on race relations to the riots after the 1910 boxing match when Jack Johnson beat the great white hope [I]James Jeffries.
This may be one case when I agree with Rev Al. The DNC asked the candidates to agree to not campaign in these state and Obama chose not to. His name was not even on the Mich ballot.
Howard Dean allowed this to happen and now will pay the price. MOst of these so called "super delegates" are OLD WHITE MEN. That will go a long way in the African American world should they decide the election.
What hypocrites they are!
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| Feb 16 @ 10:19 AM |
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willsmalto
Posts: 3,422
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You can bet your sweet bottom side that Hillary and crew will get these votes counted in the final analysis
Despite the clintons prowess in the dem. party, I don't see that happening. Rules are rules. Should this ever happen, the party is def. going to lose some members, iconic figures will resign, there will be riots here and there, you name it. I mean this is undemocratic.
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| Feb 16 @ 10:38 AM |
Count Every Vote
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,626
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Do you have this much problem with the truth all of the time?....you might get away with this sort of BS in your small circle of like-minded buds but you know it won't work in the real world.
Just what pray tell, is untrue? Okay, it was the 2000 election, but the premise remains. The dems screamed that it was imperitive that every vote be counted, well, every vote except those absentee ballots cast by troops serving abroad that is, while now the dems say that the 1.3 million votes cast in the florida primary (the most ever cast in a florida primary by the way) should be ignored.
As for the hue & cry in 2004, I point you to the following purpose statement from the Count Every Vote 2004 website.
This statement of observations is offered by Count Every Vote, an election monitoring organization dedicated to safeguarding the integrity of the electoral process. The Southern monitoring effort was organized in cooperation with the African American Human Rights Foundation, the Women of Color Resource Center, the NAACP National Voter Fund, the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation and numerous non-governmental and community based organizations in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Count Every Vote and supportive groups monitored over 700 precincts located in 27 counties in the seven focus states. The purposes of this monitoring effort were to express community interest in and support for an inclusive democratic election process in the Southeast United States. Of special concern to Count Every Vote was ensuring that equal access and participation for national minorities in the electoral decision-making process, at all levels, would not be interfered with by political parties or individuals acting on behalf of parties. The state and local monitoring operations were organized between September 1st and October 23rd. Count Every Vote conducted its activities according to international election monitoring standards and guidelines for nonpartisan election observation and U.S. voting rights laws. Count Every Vote made its observations and findings based upon: an analysis of the legal framework governing the elections; review of materials on various state electoral processes; media reports; and an analysis of information collected by hundreds of trained election monitors. Count Every Vote did not seek to interfere in the conduct of federal or state elections; it sought to assess the credibility and validity of the election process by observing the process and reporting on irregularities and challenges.
Summary of Observation
The United States of America is both a strong democracy and a flawed democracy. The November 2004 elections reflected both the accomplishments and challenges to the democratic process in the U.S. While there were improvements in some aspects of the election process over the 2000 US elections, while the elections in much of the South were relatively well administered, while the participation rate of voters and those who sought to increase voter participation were exceptionally high, and while the electoral results placed the elections above the "litigation threshold" for the presidential race, there were severe flaws in the process. The flaws centered on: weaknesses in the voter registration process that frustrated the desire of thousands of people to register to vote; blatantly politically partisan actions by a significant number of electoral officials that placed a cloud over the process in a number of states; lack of resources dedicated to densely polluted areas where national minorities are concentrated, particularly in African American communities, which placed unacceptable obstacles to realizing universal and equal suffrage; and voter suppression tactics in the pre-election period and in some places around election day. In many ways, the November 2004 elections marked a significant opportunity for the government of the United States to respond to the people’s desire for credible elections. Despite the important focus on the deteriorating confidence in the credibility of the process, the elections also revealed the need for new strategies to achieve full and effective equality in the political process as well as drawing attention to the key role that politicians and political parties can and must play in combating racism, xenophobia and related intolerance. According to accepted international principles for election observation, an accurate and complete assessment of any election must take into account all aspects of the electoral process.
Source - Count Every Vote 2004
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| Feb 16 @ 11:38 AM |
Count Every Vote |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,271
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the premise that these two totally different elections are alike is troubling to me..
if the DNC ( a non governmental organization) says "follow our rules or pay the price"..and two states say... so sad too bad we wont... and then the "Party" says..well then..we won't seat your delegates... how does that equate to the voter fraud that was alleged to have gone down in Florida..?? ( for the actual election of the POTUS )
.... btw..GMan.. the SCOTUS did not say "piss off" what they said was... ( if I remember this right...) it was not within the scope of their duties to do anything about it...as it was a state issue that the constitution did not have anything to do with...
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| Feb 16 @ 11:45 AM |
Count Every Vote
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,812
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I honestly believe that these votes should be counted in Michigan and Florida. The people went out and voted! They should have their votes count too.
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| Feb 16 @ 11:55 AM |
Count Every Vote |
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,626
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if the DNC ( a non governmental organization) says "follow our rules or pay the price"..and two states say... so sad too bad we wont... and then the "Party" says..well then..we won't seat your delegates... how does that equate to the voter fraud that was alleged to have gone down in Florida..?? ( for the actual election of the POTUS )
It equates that in the first case, the cry was, to hell with the law (the constitution of the state of florida), count every vote. Now the cry is, ignore the state law (which set the primary date) and count none of the votes.
In reality, this is a problem that should have been solved prior to the primaries in MI & FL. The legislature of each state voted on when to have the primaries. The DNC & the states should have worked this out long ago. Now we are going to see a bitter fight over the outcomes of these primaries. Instead they chose to stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem. It is much like their response to how we should handle the coming crisis in social security. Just ignore the problem and hope that it goes away.
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| Feb 16 @ 11:57 AM |
Count Every Vote
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,271
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but... that is the core problem...this election was not about who would become Pres..but..who the states of Florida and Michigan wanted to run on the democratic platform... the state party bosses.. were told to not do it the way they wanted.. but they decided to do it that way anyway...
...and as all of us know... you have to follow rules and laws or suffer the consequences... right?? 
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| Feb 16 @ 12:07 PM |
Count Every Vote |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,812
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But the people of the states still went out and voted. Their votes should count.
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| Feb 16 @ 12:15 PM |
Count Every Vote
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,626
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but... that is the core problem...this election was not about who would become Pres..but..who the states of Florida and Michigan wanted to run on the democratic platform... the state party bosses.. were told to not do it the way they wanted.. but they decided to do it that way anyway...
...and as all of us know... you have to follow rules and laws or suffer the consequences... right??
Actually, it is about power and influence. In most election cycles, the states with the early primaries are the ones who decide who the candidates will be in the national election. As a result, the states with the early primaries have greater influence and impact on those decisions. By the time that the last few states have their primaries, the decision has been made and that state has no say and no influence at the party convention. Of course, this year it seems that may be a bit different, as none of the dem candidates are likely to have enough delegates (excluding the super delegates) to win the nomination outright.
Florida and Michigan wanted to increase their influence in the national debate, by moving up their debate. The DNC liked the status quo and refused to seat not only the delegates from these primaries, but the super delegates as well, including three US senators, 15 house members & 1 former govenor.
Chris Korge, cochairman of Clinton's national fund-raising committee, sent out an e-mail alleging that "Sen. Obama writes us off as irrelevant and [Democratic National Committee chairman] Howard Dean tries to avoid the issue." Kirk Wagar, Obama's Florida finance chairman, called Korge's remarks "disingenuous" and "craven."
"Beat us on the field you agreed to and stop whining," Wagar said.
Yesterday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Convention, said the disputed delegates from the Florida and Michigan primaries shouldn't decide who wins the party's presidential nomination. "I don't think that any states that operated outside the rules of the party can be dispositive of who the nominee is," Pelosi said in an interview on Bloomberg Television's "Political Capital with Al Hunt."
Unless there's a change or a compromise, the Florida and Michigan delegates - along with three US senators, 15 members of Congress, and a governor serving as "superdelegates" - will be watching the convention on television. When the Democratic National Committee punished both states, their superdelegates were also excluded.
"There are two options at this point, and they're the same options that have been there from the beginning," said Stacie Paxton, press secretary for the Democratic National Committee. "The states can run an alternative party-run process [such as a caucus], which they could do right away, but I don't think they want to do. Or they can appeal to the convention Credentials Committee."
Dean, who had suggested state caucuses as a solution, was not available for an interview, Paxton said.
Citing the expense and the potential backlash from voters in those states in November, party leaders in Florida and Michigan have rejected the idea of conducting another contest to resolve the dispute. Referring to it as "the coming train wreck," Senator Bill Nelson of Florida, a Clinton supporter, said, "You can't undo an election where 1.7 million Florida Democrats have voted in a secret ballot and replace it with a caucus that maybe 50,000 people would show up for."
Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, who has not endorsed a candidate, echoed that opinion. "I don't see a practical way to hold a caucus in Michigan," he said. "Given that 600,000 Michigan voters participated in a primary that was held in accordance with state law, it seems to me it would not be practical or fair to throw out the results of that election."
Under national party rules, makeup contests would have to be held by June 10 for the results to supersede the earlier primaries.
Source - Boston Globe
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| Feb 16 @ 12:20 PM |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,271
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But the people of the states still went out and voted. Their votes should count.
and.. this november....their votes will indeed be counted....( if they choose to vote)
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| Feb 16 @ 12:28 PM |
Count Every Vote
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,626
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and.. this november....their votes will indeed be counted....( if they choose to vote)
That is quite true and if the dems decide to ignore their primary results, they may not be too happy with the impact that may have in November.
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| Feb 16 @ 12:36 PM |
Count Every Vote |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,812
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Thats very true Gallows. 
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| Feb 16 @ 3:39 PM |
Count Every Vote
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,960
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GH said:
Katts said:But the people of the states still went out and voted. Their votes should count. and.. this november....their votes will indeed be counted....( if they choose to vote)
That's all true.. But it has a lot of effect on who they have to vote for in November, which is just as important.
I believe they should hold valid primaries in those states again. And soon! The DNC shouldn't have the power to just trash millions of citizen votes altogether.
-MM 
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| Feb 16 @ 4:30 PM |
Count Every Vote |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,271
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I believe they should hold valid primaries in those states again. And soon! The DNC shouldn't have the power to just trash millions of citizen votes altogether.
you are mistaken... the states themselves trashed their citizens votes by trying to overrule the rules in play.. they asked permission..were told nope..but did it anyway...
hate to even go here..but what if you children openly defied you.. and did something that you told them not to..??
lets say you agreed to take your children ( all the voters ) ..to an outing.. (the convention) with the clear understanding that in order to go... that every child had to follow the rules that you laid down .. and some of your children decided not to follow them .. would you still take the two that did not follow the rules? or would you leave them at home?
The voters of Florida and Michigan cannot blame the DNC here.. they have only themselves ( the people in charge in their states ) to blame...
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| Feb 16 @ 4:47 PM |
Count Every Vote
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,014
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The last I heard, both Florida and Michigan violated DNC rules for their primaries; however, the state parties are expected to caucus and will parse out the delegates based on the primary vote
I think its best for Michigan and Florida to decertify the Democrat party from enjoying access to its ballot or Electoral College votes, based upon the rediculous position of the DNC, which is a private organization whose rules violate public policy and purport to nullify the laws of a sovereign state.
Last I heard, all private organizations having contracts that were not "lawful in character" or rules that violate public laws are subject to court orders to require them to bow to the sovereignty of the state or nation.
I am so surprised no courts have been invoked to restrain the DNC for its unlawful rules in violation of public policy.
Is there anyone who can provide me with a quote from any federal source which purports to allow a private club to nullify a state or federal law?
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| Feb 16 @ 4:49 PM |
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Blondino
Posts: 4,199
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Is there anyone who can provide me with a quote from any federal source which purports to allow a private club to nullify a state or federal law?
 Not I ... 
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