| Feb 18 @ 12:00 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,377
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think the subject line is just drama..and not based on fact...?? 
....well if you are against it.. that is just what you are doing... 
Fact:
http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/health/feeds/hscout/2008/02/18/hscout612710.html....One expert thinks the solution to the health-care insurance problem is universal health insurance. "We know that the uninsured are 25 percent more likely to die than other Americans," said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, and co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program. "This study tells us one reason why. Many uninsured cancer victims don't get the screening and primary care that would find their disease early, when a cure is still possible," she said. "The U.S. health system costs twice as much as those of other developed nations, but still leaves millions facing cancer and other serious illness without adequate care," Woolhandler said. "A fundamental change is needed, namely, nonprofit national health insurance."
so.. the next time you Christian Republicans come out against it... remember that you will now burn in hell....as you have been told...
as for you Liberal Democrats who come out against it.. The Republicans will give you a pass...as they believe you have no soul....
seriously... what will it take for universal nonprofit quality health care for all to be a reality?
Is Hillary the answer for this problem?? McCain?? or Obama??
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| Feb 18 @ 12:13 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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eastham
Posts: 6,014
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We are approaching the tipping point on health care, both physical and mental. The old nonprofit insurers have converted to for-profits. Between 1995 and 2005, there were 400 mergers or conversions in this area alone. Patients and providers aren't benefitting from the record profits. Reimbursement to physicians, nurses, etc has remained fairly flat and few new benefits have been roled out; however, the executives of these new companies seem to be remarkably well paid.
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| Feb 18 @ 12:24 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,887
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I have one son that is not insured by anyone, and another that has lost his because his place or work has shut it's doors.
Sen Clinton has worked to get Universal health care for many years and that is one of the reasons I would vote for her.
This is a very important issue for me along with the unemployment rates in many states.
Most insurance company now have preventive care, that is where of course you go in for a free screening or check up every year or every 6 months.
People that don't have insurance need to be able to do this too!
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| Feb 18 @ 12:38 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,377
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Most insurance company now have preventive care, that is where of course you go in for a free screening or check up every year or every 6 months.
People that don't have insurance need to be able to do this too!
this might be a solution..but remember...
If one of "these people" without insurance gets a free or low cost screening...
and cancer or something else that is life threatening is found... who then pays for the treatment //or not?
what you are proposing (imho) is a bandaid and a pat on the head ..and not a total solution.. does the uninsured patient without resources still die - due to lack of treatment...?
if your answer is..."Don't know..it ain't my problem..." didn't you just buy a one way ticket to hell...??
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| Feb 18 @ 12:42 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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willsmalto
Posts: 3,449
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Sen Clinton has worked to get Universal health care for many years and that is one of the reasons I would vote for her.
it's not going to be free of charge. Hillary's health care plan is not as good as Barack's. Hers is a mandate, meaning she's going to force you to buy it. it's pretty much like your car insurance. If and when you can't afford it, you'll be fined  . What of the unemployed? I don't see this working out right. ..I may be wrong
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| Feb 18 @ 1:09 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,887
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What of the unemployed? I don't see this working out right. ..I may be wrong
Some where I read that these people would not be expected to pay for coverage.
this might be a solution..but remember...
If one of "these people" without insurance gets a free or low cost screening...
and cancer or something else that is life threatening is found... who then pays for the treatment //or not?
what you are proposing (imho) is a bandaid and a pat on the head ..and not a total solution.. does the uninsured patient without resources still die - due to lack of treatment...?
This is where ( breast cancer) getting a hold of the National breast cancer society and other women and finding out what the options are.
Who pays? The people that are working of course. or than can help.
We are our brothers keepers after all right??
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| Feb 18 @ 1:18 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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katts - our government is incapable of engineering a universal health care plan. The COngress is incapable of passing any legislation that will remotely resemble this plan.
Think about it. With all of the bickering between parties and the fact that all Congresspeople need money for their campaigns and that they want to be reelected - how can you imagine that this will ever come about.
Pelosi does not like Billary and Reid will not do anything so how do expect this legislation to even be introduced?
I wouldn't get too excited. Just like the other hollow promises that the Dems made last year they will do an awwww shucks on us.
BTW - whatever happened to Billarys $5000 Baby Gift that she promised? Havent heard anymore about that!
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| Feb 18 @ 1:21 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,887
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I do understand what you are saying Iam. That is the sad part. So, maybe get the part up and running for the people that need it the most? Plus do something about the drug company's.
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| Feb 18 @ 1:27 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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katts - the Senate and Congress will have to pass a Bill. The president doesn't pass legislation.
How can you imagine that this will ever get done?
They could not agree on immigration
They could not agree on the recent wire tap bill that the Senate passed unanimously.
The Dems have a majority and promised to end the War - did they?
Yet they had plenty of time to stage a circus with Roger Clemens.
Our COngress is so self serving that no one has the courage to address ANY serious issues. That is why their approval rating is about 19%.
Don't hold your breath waiting for socialized medicine.
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| Feb 18 @ 1:29 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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eastham
Posts: 6,014
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and cancer or something else that is life threatening is found... who then pays for the treatment //or not?
And the more fundamental question, as you raised in the first post, would the individual have had the diagnostic test in the first place.
As to whom would pay for treatment, that varies considerably from state to state and type of disease. Laws on the books are antiquated and address hospitalization only. Charity hospitals and public hospitals have federal/state indigent care funds they can tap into; however, much of our care is provided outside the standard hospital setting.
Chemotherapy and treatments for chronic conditions are handled out of ambulatory care centers or infusion centers that may be stand-alone or attached to the hospital, but separately accredited, etc. Therefore the old charity hospital laws do not cover chemotherapy. So even if you have a bare bones plan that covers hospitalization, your treatment will not be covered.
Unlike Medicare, where the federal government has mandated that all physicians, etc must be participating providers, Medicaid allows physicians, etc to discriminate against low income patients. Many doctors do not see any Medicaid patients, and not because reimbursement is low. Some don't because they just don't like poor people. Very sad.
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| Feb 18 @ 1:33 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,377
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Iam....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExcusesExcuses as rhetoric Examples In casual conversations or even in formal meetings one often encounters excuses for actions or inactions. A set of common excuses along with a question and a sarcasm is presented below in order to clarify how one might test an excuse for reasonableness or expose its unreasonableness in a rhetorically effective manner: Excuse:"We tried that once, and it didn't work." Replies:"Is that enough reason to give up trying?", "Well, that's certainly reason not to try that light bulb thing again, Mr. Edison!" Excuse:"We've always done it this way." Replies:"Is that enough reason to not attempt to find a better way?", "Yes, that's how we've always drunk our iced tea, Mr. Jim Jones!" Excuse:"We can't afford that." Replies:"Even though no one stated yet how much it costs?", "Even though it cost no money!" Excuse:"We don't want to send the wrong message." Replies:"Is the message we're already sending the best we can do?", "...because we've been so good for so long at sending the right message!" Soundness, Validity The effectiveness of excuses in persuading a person or group often depends either on the soundness of the premise of the excuse or else on the validity of the logic when applying the principle of the excuse to more general situations. However, many excuses that fail these tests of classical logic may remain persuasive, and can be countered best with humour or hyperbole. Self-help A fairly common theme found in "self improvement" publications is how to overcome objections and excuses without inciting offense.
... ...
....all you do is talk negatively about everything..
... Which, in your opinion, of the three - has the best plan? and why?
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| Feb 18 @ 1:47 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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GH - stop with the wiki - learn to think!
I am not negative. I am realistic.
If any candidate tries to propose any radical plan it will go down in flames, just as it did 20 years ago. Only McCain has enough political capital to get any plan passed.
A GOOD politician would assess the political waters and develop a plan that will get passed.
Instead Billary proposes a plan that will never get passed and people like you believe it. Then when she gets elected nothing will happen.
GH - we have run into you lack of understanding of how our government operates before. YOu act like the day the new President takes office all of the BS they have been telling you will come true. DO you think there is a SANTA CLAUS too?
Billary has promised -
Lower gas prices - how the F is she gonna do that?
Socialized Health CAre - no way
$5000 for each new baby born - 
And of course she has PROMISED to fix the economy - 
So time and again you expose your lack of understanding and then want to have a conversation about something that makes no sense. Of course next you resort to some out of context cut and paste from wiki that proves nothing.
Rather than waste your time on a useless website like wiki you should get a book on how our government operates.
And then read it.
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| Feb 18 @ 2:01 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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willsmalto
Posts: 3,449
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Some where I read that these people would not be expected to pay for coverage.
considering that's true, what of those who make less than $25.000 anually? will they be able to afford it?
Look, people don't buy health care not cos they don't want or need it. They simply cannot afford it. Obama's plan makes it affordable by drastically cutting down the price.
I totally and completely agree with iam75. The government is incapable of providing universal health care to every man, woman and child. It's something many pple have tried to no avail. Hillary herself tried in her days a first lady, not to talk of sen. Ted Kennedy who's been working on it all his life. If there's no coalition in our government, it's just a matter of decades. I strongly see that ability in Barack.
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| Feb 18 @ 2:33 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 6,377
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GH - we have run into you lack of understanding of how our government operates before. YOu act like the day the new President takes office all of the BS they have been telling you will come true. DO you think there is a SANTA CLAUS too?
the pres has the veto power.. that is my concern..as it is hard to overide a veto..
(btw..Iam...this was your "free shot post" of the day... the next one you direct towards me ... I will counter in kind...( not in kind actually I will just rip your post apart.. 
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| Feb 18 @ 5:09 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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OK gh - fair enough - then how about this- why dont you explain what your comment below means?
We are discussing what the candidates policy is regarding health care. I present the idea that I think it is reasonable to believe that the Congress cannot pass any healtch care legislation as it is too sensitive of an issue. How does the Presidents veto power fit into this?
the pres has the veto power.. that is my concern..as it is hard to overide a veto..
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| Feb 18 @ 5:33 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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Jankia
Posts: 8,804
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seriously... what will it take for universal nonprofit quality health care for all to be a reality?
If you want reality put a reasonable ceiling on the amount lawsuits against doctors can be settled at and everyone has to quit buying health insurance to force the drug manufacturers and the hospitals to lower the cost of healthcare by default.
the next time you Christian Republicans come out against it... remember that you will now burn in hell....as you have been told...
as for you Liberal Democrats who come out against it.. The Republicans will give you a pass...as they believe you have no soul....
What about Christain Democrats,do they get there own pass?
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| Feb 18 @ 5:35 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,887
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No Jankia!!! 
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| Feb 18 @ 6:01 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,082
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What is the real problem underlying this issue?
Isn't it the same one that has eliminated most of the unions?
Isn't it the same one that has eliminated a lot of labor laws?
Isn't it the same one that has eliminated a lot regulations on the environment? Isn't it the same one that has eliminated all the mental health clinics?
Isn't it the same one that has eliminated the physical health clinics?
Isn't it the same one that has increased drugs prices to an unheard of level?
Isn't it the same one that has increased gas prices to an unheard of level?
Isn't it the same one that has increased all prices because of the gas increase?
Isn't it the same one that is causing people to have to work 2 and 3 jobs?
Etc Etc Etc Etc............................
Hint. It is a 5 letter word beginning with G.
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| Feb 18 @ 6:03 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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Jankia
Posts: 8,804
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Definatly BJ864,thats why I brought up insurance companies.
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| Feb 18 @ 6:06 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,887
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Isn't it the same one that has eliminated most of the unions? Reagan?Isn't it the same one that has eliminated a lot of labor laws? Isn't it the same one that has increased gas prices to an unheard of level? Unheard of? This happened way back in the 80'Isn't it the same one that has increased all prices because of the gas increase? Hint. It is a 5 letter word beginning with G.
Who are you blaming? Every president has did one or more of these things since Kennedy at least.
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