| Feb 18 @ 6:23 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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Jankia
Posts: 9,088
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I'll sell you two e's for buck katts. 
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| Feb 18 @ 6:31 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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...We already have social health care in this nation.
Medicare was for the old, was and is a part of FICA, or the 15.3% total of all their wages paid into that fund for their total working lives, but "stolen" to run the country with each and every year, as well as pays out huge amounts to even Illegals, or those that have never paid into the fund; or very little.
Medicaid is Federally funded to the States for those designated as in poverty, which is already far above minimum wage. The trouble is, the system is biased by those in control of the individual offices.
...Now, if you can show me any country that has social health care that has even decent health care by comparison of the health care provided in the US, then let's take a look at it.
...Once pronounced as an example and still so by those uninformed, is the UK and Canada. Look now and if you want anything above our Medicaid for the poor, you will purchase health insurance as in the US.
...As a Brit on here said, beggars cannot be choosy.
...Do any of our legislature members, including Obama, Clinton, McCain, etc., participate in even forced FICA, Medicare, etc.? Hell no... they have their own perpetual health and retirement plans set up that the taxpayers fund.
...Otherwise, it will be another cluster fcuk by a government for more taxes with even less to show for the price. If you are poor, then sign up for Medicaid. If you are an Illegal, just walk in, as by law, the hospital has to give you health care.
...In conclusion, if you want equality for all, then when our Congress enrolls in the same health plan they will attempt to shove down the citizens throats, I will be more positive.
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| Feb 18 @ 7:15 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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Bj864
Posts: 3,110
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The word is GREED. The unlimited amount of greed that the super wealthy have for more and more money and power.
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| Feb 18 @ 7:27 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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eastham
Posts: 6,317
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Sweden.
The Swedish system is universal. There are co-pays that are nominal and are capped.
The Swedish have a very low infant mortality rate, live longer and better than most Americans and are taller than US citizens -- this didn't use to be the case. The US used to be the tallest country in the world (a marker for a good public health system), but we have now fallen to third.
What is different about the Swedish system is that unlike the British and the US system, the Swedish tradition is hospital based versus doctor-office based.
...In conclusion, if you want equality for all, then when our Congress enrolls in the same health plan they will attempt to shove down the citizens throats, I will be more positive.
There have been a number of presidential hopefuls that have advocated the population as a whole has access to the health programs available to federal and Congressional employees and the insurance companies have fought them at every turn.
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| Feb 18 @ 8:32 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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The US used to be the tallest country in the world
 In many ways! Not only with health. But that's been almost 8 years ago now.. Almost hard to remember how it was back then.. Thankfully the long nightmare is about to come to an end..
-MM 
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| Feb 18 @ 8:58 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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East: There have been a number of presidential hopefuls that have advocated the population as a whole has access to the health programs available to federal and Congressional employees and the insurance companies have fought them at every turn.
...And they caved why? ... The same "presidential hopefuls" that are being advocated today, have and are receiving the same donations, from the same people and anything different is to be expected?
East: What is different about the Swedish system is that unlike the British and the US system, the Swedish tradition is hospital based versus doctor-office based.
...Many will not agree that Sweden's health system as being all that great today; unless you like waiting forever.
Sweden's Single-Payer Health System Provides a Warning to Other NationsWhile Sweden is a first world country, its health care system - at least in regards to access - is closer to the third world. Because the health care system is heavily-funded and operated by the government, the system is plagued with waiting lists for surgery. Those waiting lists increase patients' anxiety, pain and risk of death. Sweden's health care system offers two lessons for the policymakers of the United States. The first is that a single-payer system is not the answer to the problems faced as Americans. Sweden's system does not hold down costs and results in rationing of care. The second lesson is that market-oriented reforms must permit the market to work. Specifically, government should not protect health care providers that fail to provide patients with a quality service from going out of business. When the United States chooses to reform its health care system, reform should lead to improvement. Reforming along the lines of Sweden would only make our system worse. ... The Rest of the Study
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| Feb 18 @ 9:17 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,242
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Growing up as an "Army Brat", I always thought that the government did a pretty darn good job administering their military "universal health care".
Heck, when any of us had a problem, it was a quick trip to the dispensary (or dental clinic)...in and out, generally no big deal. And when there were really serious issues, the Army Hospitals were fantastic...then all that "disappeared" after budget cuts, reorgaization, and such. 
My father, after 30 years as a career officer, wasn't even allowed to see a doctor at our local Navy dispensary for a simple eye infection -- there were plenty of availabe, unoccupied doctors, nurses, and techs standing around, but "rulez is rulez"  ...so he winds up at a civilian urgent care walk-in facility that cost Medicare -- the US government -- several hundred dollars. Dumb, dumb, dumb. All for an itchy eye. 
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universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
LOL, one reason I won't go to a doctor for any reason -- if I have cancer, I'd rather die without knowing about it. I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my (limited) life wondering how I was going to pay for treatment...or make a choice between treatment and homelessness.
(I was urged to get a mammogram through "peer pressure" a couple of years ago. Never again! They found a "cluster" and the only reason I pursued it and had a biopsy is because this state has a program that covered the cost -- privately funded, btw. Any further surgery and possible reconstruction would have to be covered by Medicaid. (My results were 'negative, obviously). Trouble is, I don't qualify for Medicaid in this state. -- so I'd rather not know anything than to be caught up in a perpetual Catch-22 situation anymore. If I get sick and die, so be it. It's better, to ME, than selling my house, possibly recovering, then living the rest of my life homeless and "on the dole"  Kind of sad that we're forced to make choices like that in this "civilized" country, though...  )
[Edited on 2/18/2008 9:31 PM]
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| Feb 18 @ 9:21 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,023
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Things are really starting to get rough for all states when the name Health Care is mentioned! There is one state among many that is cutting its Health Departments Budget by 12%! This is not much of a cut but, when you see the Flu shots every year and other Nursing duties going you know it is a hell of a cut! The new Democrat Governor said it was from a 500 million short fall left from the republican administration that just left the capitol in December!
There is also going to be cuts in the emergency services, volunteer fire departments, forestery and other departments!
So, if you are having a heart attack or cut an artery.....I wish you well!
this is a very informative site and I would suggest you link to it
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| Feb 18 @ 9:52 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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whatagal
Posts: 809
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Growing up as an "Army Brat", I always thought that the government did a pretty darn good job administering their military "universal health care".
I was IN the military and they damn near killed me. I had a miscarriage and almost bled to death because some nurse didn't report the huge clot that I showed her.
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| Feb 18 @ 10:33 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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sunbabe - when we were kids all health care was good like that. Students got Blue Cross for .25 per week.
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| Feb 18 @ 10:37 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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BJ: The word is GREED. The unlimited amount of greed that the super wealthy have for more and more money and power.
...I bet that if they do eliminate the so called tax breaks that were given to the "rich," it is the working class that will continue to foot the bill for anything that resembles social.
lefty: this is a very informative site and I would suggest you link to it
...It would be a nice site to link to lefty, except they require you to register with email... and with their constant pop-ups with zedo.com to track you with, unless you are one of those few that just love more spam, I suggest registering with a fake or junk email address.
...Did I mention that I hate forced pop-ups?
whatagal: I was IN the military and they damn near killed me. I had a miscarriage and almost bled to death because some nurse didn't report the huge clot that I showed her.
...With my first born, after he tried three times to hook up an IV to my wife, I told the Captain to get the hell out of the way and I did it first try.
============================
...A couple of years ago, I walked into the County Health clinic to get an advertised flue shot... and turned around and walked out. If that is an example and it is, of our social health care, I will pay for qualified care; just as I do for any pet I own... if I have to get a second or third job.
...The problem with the poor in this country, besides some that refuse to work, or beyond 40 hours, is that the millions of Illegal are also competing for those same available resources... that someone has to pay for.
...Hillary or Obama think they have the answer? Everyplace that a country has tried social health care, the care self deprecated and anyone that wants decent medical care, pays for it directly, or through supplemental insurance.
...Think differently? ... think of government employee productivity and you will have your own answer.
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| Feb 18 @ 11:28 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 7,784
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Iam asked...
then how about this- why dont you explain what your comment below means? We are discussing what the candidates policy is regarding health care. I present the idea that I think it is reasonable to believe that the Congress cannot pass any healtch care legislation as it is too sensitive of an issue. How does the Presidents veto power fit into this? the pres has the veto power.. that is my concern..as it is hard to overide a veto
all three of the canidates have stated that they are in favor of trying to fix this fiasco we now have..
and the begining should start with the president submitting his plan to congress.. the more workable the plan is.. the less congress will modify it
you are right that congress has to get on board..and in my opinion, they will..with the usual concessions and addons.. ( read: turning a good bill into a not so good bill.)
once it gets to the president's desk to sign.. he has to decide if he will sign it or send it back or just let it sit.. insert veto concerns here...
(read: the final say rests with the president, as I seriously doubt congress will ever overide a veto of a universal health care bill..it will be too easy to just blame the failure on the veto .. .)
why am I concerned about the newly elected president vetoing it? because if it ever finally gets to his desk in whatever shape... I don't want to see it just sitting there because the President wants to blame congress for submitting a bad bill
but after the 1993 fiasco..I will not hold my breath nor expect anything to happen..I am just expecting a repeat of 1993 ...but do hope I am wrong..
http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/tp00.cfm
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| Feb 18 @ 11:38 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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GH - I will bet anyone anything that no health care bill that in any way shape or form makes it to any presidents desk in the near future.
Our Congress has turned to shit since 1993. There is so much infighting that they have rendered themselves useless -
That is why they have resorted to having hearings about Clemens and Steroids and the the Patriots filming opponents practices.
They are useless and Nancy Pelosi is too freakin dumb to be a leader.
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| Feb 19 @ 1:34 AM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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capitalview
Posts: 675
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Want example of a country which doesn't have such a problem ? Israel. Universal health insurance - free ( no co-payments ) for citizens , and the quality is world-famous, people from all over the world come over and buy the same healthcare for full price . ( Considering that the country is in 50+-years non-stop war , it's a fantastic achievement ) .
It's rather sad to realize that the countries we used to look down at outperform us lately. Why children in Libya have no problems having goverment funded higher education ? Why governments in some Mid Eastern countries can "afford" to invest 20k in each baby born instead of wasting tax money for ther own benefit? How come the only country where the officals seem to openly ignore their people's needs is the one which supposedly is "for the people and by the people"? 
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| Feb 19 @ 2:50 AM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,460
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capital view: Want example of a country which doesn't have such a problem ? Israel. Universal health insurance - free ( no co-payments ) for citizens ,
Nonsense ... again
<>...First, Israel is not free health care and every citizen pays into a progresssive health care fund, as well as their employers' pay into the fund.
Did you get the part about employer? ... that means they have a job and they also personally pay by their personal income.
<>...Second, is that no health care is provided to "tourists" for free and obviously, that does not include the 30 or 40 million Illegals we take care of here.
<>...Third, is that Israel's population is less than 3% of the US population.
<>...Fourth, is that Israel has a mandatory military service for both men (3 years) and women (2 years) and after that, can be called back to active duty until I think? 45 years of age.
<>...Fifth and really important... is that the US taxpayer funds over $134 Billion and increasing each year to Israel, or about $23,000 annual per each Israel citizen.
capital: How come the only country where the officals seem to openly ignore their people's needs is the one which supposedly is "for the people and by the people"?
...Yes, I think we could afford health insurance for every working US citizen for that kind of money, let alone mandatory military service, further individual health care payments by the indiividual and the employer.
...And don't forget, no health for "tourists."
...Got anything better capitalview?
On January 1, 1995, the National Health Insurance Law went into effect. The law sets forth the state's responsibility to provide health services for all residents of the country (not including tourists.) The law stipulates that a standardized basket of medical services, including hospitalization, will continue to be supplied by the sick funds. Sources for funding of health costs include progressive health insurance premiums paid by each resident, employers' health tax payments, National Insurance Institute funds, funds from the Ministry of Health budget and consumer participation payments. The insurance premiums are collected by the National Insurance Institute. The Health Care System in Israel |
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| Feb 19 @ 9:38 AM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,954
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universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
Some days I wish it was!! Especially if they can't find a way to shut up that damn big ole mutt out there, who barks his head off incessantly every morning at 4:30AM for at least half a freakin' hour!!
-MM 
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| Feb 19 @ 9:09 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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capitalview
Posts: 675
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SG, you obviously missed the point .
That's exactly what "national universal health care" means - i.e. those who work pay into sick funds along with employers - but every citizen is entitled to healthcare no matter if he's unemployed/retired/etc. As for tourists - as I said , there's plenty of tourists flocking to this country to get medical help , they know they will be not getting it for free and they willingly pay full cost of their treatment, so there's hardly anything "inferior" about health care in this country.
Not sure what universal military service to do with this and why you brought it here, but maybe it , indeed, would be a good solution for our country. At least those who have veteran's status actually do have universal healthcare in USA.
BTW, military service in Israel is hardly any similar to one in USA. No drilling , screaming, humiliating of the subordinates is allowed there. Serving in Israel Defence Army is seen as a matter of honor for every boy and girl in Israel. Army is a national pet in this country and anyone wearing uniform is treated as a hero by the population .
I have seen elderly couples delivering freshly baked pastry to frontline just to cheer the kids up ( not their biological children, but that's how the country feels towards the boys and girls in uniform : "our children".) And any soldier is anytime welcome to use free ride home on his /her day off - every driver is willing to get them anywhere, and that's better than a law- it's tradition
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| Feb 21 @ 9:13 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor? |
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newlife2006
Posts: 612
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You hit the nail right on the head, cap. Universal healthcare by no means has anything to do with buying health insurance. It means that healthcare and pharmacology becomes non-profit organizations instead of businesses. Everyone who is working or is self-employed is paying health-tax ( instead of medicare tax) ,but , unlike medicare or health insurance , if one looses his job for any reason and subsequently stops making payments - it doesn't change his eligibility to healthcare. Any citizen is covered - those who are too young for working ( like kids), handicapped , unemployed or retired. Works just like Medicare or Veterans healthcare, nothing new about the system , the only important difference is - it covers every citizen and there's no age restrictions.
Obviously, those who profit handsomely from healthcare /pharmacology , will say and do anything to condemn universal healthcare . It's quite understandable , they don't want to be converted into well-paid government employees ( and that's exactly what universal healthcare is all about ....  ). But come to think about it - what if firefighters didn't want to be non-profit and decided to take care exclusively of those houses on fire whose owners have fire-insurance and are ready to pay high co-payment in advance ? That would be the very same situation we now have with healthcare, right? So, why would someone deny firefighters their right to charge as much as they please for their services if healthcare people are allowed to do so?
After all, those who cannot afford to pay don't deserve to be saved , serves them right . Services are for profit, not for people! 
That's true, cap, The Holy Land has superb healthcare , but citizens of European Union are enjoying also something Americans cannot even dream of - universal legal insurance ( which doesn't exist in Israel either ) . Works the same way as universal healthcare - i.e. each and every citizen is equally represented in court no matter if he's an unemployed singe parent or CEO of the wealthiest corporation. Indeed - justice there is for ALL .
No wonder people feel secure and protected and taken care of - in case of health problem as well as in case of a legal problem.Talk about "no stress life" ... 
I came across an article called "Why Dutch seem to have the highest rate of happiness with their lives ?" I guess it has something to do with the word "universal"... 
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| Feb 21 @ 9:35 PM |
universal heath care..and ..... is it ok to kill your neighbor?
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,023
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Health Care for all citizens will come to this country! The Drug Companies and the Insurance Companies can kick and scream all they want. Eventually the people will see our country is in need of some corporations existing only for the good of the people!
Yes, a coupla big "cash cows" will disappear and emerge as something good this time! The ripping off of America will be stopped in this area! But, there are some other areas that need cleaning up also...Big Oil for one!
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