| Mar 20 @ 7:48 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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First and foremost let me establish that thread is not being published for the purpose of advancing how racist you might feel the Rev Wright, Obama, or anyone else is. Subject to MD rules ,therefore, the issue of whether Barrack Obama, The Reverend Doctor Jeremiah Wright, or anyone else is racist will therefore be considered off topic.
I would like to discuss instead excerpts from a recent speech given by Barrack Obama on the topic of Race in America as it appears below. I believe once you read the excerpt I've selected you will understand and, hopefully, agree that accusation of racism would only be counter productive for the purposes of this topic.
But I have asserted a firm conviction -- a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people -- that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.
For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life.
But it also means binding our particular grievances -- for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs -- to the larger aspirations of all Americans, the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family.
And it means taking full responsibility for own lives -- by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.
Ironically, this quintessentially American -- and yes, conservative -- notion of self-help found frequent expression in Rev. Wright's sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.
The profound mistake of Rev. Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country -- a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black, Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past.
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| Mar 20 @ 7:55 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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Please excuse my type-o's in the op....you know how it is...
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| Mar 20 @ 8:11 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,575
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that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union. If this is the case, how can Obama also claim that Rev. Wright is his religious mentor. What does mentor mean? Rev, Wright has shown that he in no way supports what Obama said. So which statement by Obama is truthful? The one above, or the one in which he states that Rev. Wright is his mentor?
Obama can't have it both ways. He either supports his mentor of 20 years, or all of a sudden he disowns the relationship for obvious political and not moral reasons. Why didn't he break this relationship 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago? Seems funny that he is having a change of heart now.
The profound mistake of Rev. Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. He did not speak about racism in our society, he was promoting it. There is a big difference there. Obama is walking the fence between his loyalty to his friend and mentor, and the uproar that was caused by Rev. Wright's comments. Seems that Obama completely ignored the comments on our country
This speach was a first step but does not answer all the questions of Obama's relationship wit Rev. Wright.
Peace
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| Mar 20 @ 8:15 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,408
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I think this would be better placed in the Politics and Current Events Forum.
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| Mar 20 @ 8:19 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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I thought it was.....oh but he does speak about God here , and the Rev Wright so...I'm not sure....I mess up.....I thought it was in the Political/current events thread.
You cut the quote off sail:
The profound mistake of Rev. Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country -- a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black, Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past.
sail said: He did not speak about racism in our society, he was promoting it.
First and foremost let me establish that thread is not being published for the purpose of advancing how racist you might feel the Rev Wright, Obama, or anyone else is. Subject to MD rules ,therefore, the issue of whether Barrack Obama, The Reverend Doctor Jeremiah Wright, or anyone else is racist will therefore be considered off topic.
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| Mar 20 @ 8:28 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,575
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Mom,
I think this would be better placed in the Politics and Current Events Forum.
You are probably right. But being that Rev. Write is Obama's religious mentor it is hard to ignore the religious aspects of this topic.
Since ono placed it in this forum, I would assume that he feels that the religious aspects are important in this discussion.
Questions like - Would a true man of god preach the hateful messages that Rev. Wright is known for? or What does it say about Obama's judgement that he considers Rev. Write to be his mentor?
There are many more religious implications in this matter.
Peace
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| Mar 20 @ 8:30 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,408
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Yes there are, but O himself said he meant to place it in Politics. 
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| Mar 20 @ 8:35 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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I'll drop FM a line and see what they think. 
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| Mar 20 @ 8:37 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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ForumMod
Posts: 1,280
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try 'politics' for awhile.
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| Mar 20 @ 8:38 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,575
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Ono,
I was addressing part of Obama's speech. I did not bring in racism into the thread, you did when you included it in your quote.
It is impossible to discuss the portion of the speach you qouted without mentioning or commenting on Obama's own words.
If you want to control the responses you get, go back to the blog area where you have already been bombarded with the same types of responses. You didn't do too well in the political forum either.
So if you don't want Obama or Rev. Write's reputations tarnished, I suggest you just hang it up. 
Peace
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| Mar 20 @ 8:38 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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Questions like - Would a true man of god preach the hateful messages that Rev. Wright is known for? or What does it say about Obama's judgement that he considers Rev. Write to be his mentor?
Excellent topics for your own thread...hint...hint....hint..
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| Mar 20 @ 8:42 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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It is impossible to discuss the portion of the speach you qouted without mentioning or commenting on Obama's own words.
There's commenting on his words and there's twisting those words to support your contention that he's a racist, or promoting racism---admittedly which could go either way. And I admit it's borderline compliant with the Op as it's from a quote I provided myself.
If you want to control the responses you get, go back to the blog area where you have already been bombarded with the same types of responses. You didn't do too well in the political forum either.
(((((((((((((( smirks )))))))))))))))
What's your purpose in making these remarks ?
.......make your opponent think he's alone in the way they view reality.....
(((((((((((((((((( psyche ))))))))))))))))
just having fun here don't take me seriously......not
[Edited on 3/20/2008 9:00 PM]
[Edited on 3/20/2008 9:03 PM]
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| Mar 20 @ 8:54 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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Jankia
Posts: 9,149
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First he says this... that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union. and then...
But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.
 Doesnt he allready believe society has changed alot since the days of the "old racial wounds"? If not...why?
So far in this election Ive yet to see Obama's race brought into the question of why he shouldnt be elected.His name is questioned and now his church.Are we...as citizens,attacking this mans credentials because he is African-American and we want to avoid the appearace of racism or is he bringing racism into this election to use as his political crutch?
What is brought up as it should be is his expierience.
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| Mar 20 @ 8:58 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,408
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JMO, but those racial wounds need to be allowed to heal and not brought up all the time
And yes, we should be looking at his experience and what he brings to the table.
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| Mar 20 @ 9:31 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,081
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No one can, NOW, bring up Obama and Wright without the conversation going around to the racist remarks made by Wright and Obama condoning what he said by doing nothing!
Obama stayed in the church, listened to many, many sermons and called Wright his mentor! To me Barak has just said I believe in Preacher Wright and all he stands for up to and including having him on his Campaign for President Committee!
You can say and try all you want but, the die is cast.....Obama is joined at the hip with this so-called preacher-racist!
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| Mar 20 @ 10:25 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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Ok I see how it's going to be. I can play this game too. But I'm going to use the tactic of the late Martin Luther King Jr., and avoid conflict. I don't want to fight with anybody. I just think there is so much in Obama's speech that deserves to be discussed. I invite those who want to have that discuss within the framework that I've requested. It's ust like every other thread here. Only if you resist the temptation to give in to your preconceived notions. We all might come through a little less bitter. I'm not sure why it is a person wouldn't be able to just refrain from commenting if they couldn't do so without giving in to hate. To me that just sends a more negative message about the person than this thread.
Such a wonderful speech if we can just move on like Senator Obama so eloquently puts it in this next excerpt.
Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity.
Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African-Americans and white Americans.
Imagine that people living in South Carolina and other Southern states move past hate and voted for Obama.
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| Mar 20 @ 10:46 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,081
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onoudn.......Yes, he won those states! But, since then other revelations have come to the fore! He has been exposed for his own brand of racism!
Instead of getting his butt up and walking out on the Preacher. He instead stayed and condoned the Preacher's racist rants! Now, it is out in the open....Obama is trying to put the fire out he started by staying with this man.
I would like to see a re-vote today in those states he won earlier! I believe he would lose everyone of them, now!
We as a nation are trying to move past this racist crapola! Yet, here is a Black man preaching every Sunday and spewing hatred to his flock. And one of his flock is Barak Obama...a Black man running for President of the United States!
Moreover, Obama says Reverand Wright is his "mentor"! That in and of itself tells me Obama is not Presidential material!
Barak Obama has no one to blame but himself for what has happened! He could have removed himself from Wright's congregation and went to another church. He could have also not had him on his campaign committee. He could have also said he was not his mentor.
Obama has lied! And he can't wiggle out! And that is no ones fault but Barak Obamas!
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| Mar 20 @ 10:57 PM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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I'm enjoying this. Coming on a thread deliberately refusing to adhere to a good faith request to comply with one simple thing. What makes you think I'm going to take anything you have to say seriously, when you disregard my wishes in this manner ? Especially, when all you have to do is open your closed mind to Obama's own explanation. Which BTW are good enough for me.
Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Rev. Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?
And I confess that if all that I knew of Rev. Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and YouTube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way
But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than 20 years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor.
He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine, who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth -- by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.
In my first book, "Dreams From My Father," I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:
"People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend's voice up into the rafters....And in that single note -- hope! -- I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones.
"Those stories -- of survival, and freedom, and hope -- became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world.
"Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn't need to feel shame about...memories that all people might study and cherish -- and with which we could start to rebuild."
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| Mar 21 @ 1:09 AM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship.
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,272
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Lucky:
would like to see a re-vote today in those states he won earlier! I believe he would lose everyone of them, now!
I told someone this last weekend. I believe if the primary's were held next week it would turn out different too.
I do know a few people that did vote for him that wish they hadn't now.
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| Mar 21 @ 2:10 AM |
Civil Discourse on the topic of the Rev Wright/Obama relationship. |
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onoudn
Posts: 4,266
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I guess I gave the people at MD too much credit. Or maybe I give myself too little. I can reject what Wright said. If people saw my reaction when I first heard the clips they will see that I was highly agitated, embarrassed, and apologetic for having made statements against whites that were "bashing black", as I called it. If you go to the "black focused schools" you'll see that this is true.
But as the days went on my agitation lessoned. I adapted to the news. Now I can look objective at the issue. Now I can admit that what Wright said was wrong, divisive, even Racist. However, I find Obama's explanation more compelling than all the excuses I keep reading that advance wholesale condemnation of him.
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