| Mar 24, 2008 @ 12:07 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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raykl
Posts: 566
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This includes interviews that gives details on the Bush/Rumsfeld War. Powell was never for the Iraq war- he felt Afghanistan was the only response with another coalition. Most nations supported our attack on Afghanistan, but wanted no part of Iraq.
Give the show a chance before blasting away on something you have not seen.
This two-part "Frontline" documentary begins with the attacks of 9/11. Then, step by step, it moves toward the Bush administration's shock-and-awe response. With Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein successfully branded Public Enemy No. 1, the invasion of Iraq began five years ago this month.
But that's just the first part of "Bush's War." What "Frontline" calls a secret war -- not so secret by now but seldom exposed in such detail as in this film -- airs from 9 to 11:30 tonight on Frontline.
Behind the scenes, Secretary of State Colin Powell and CIA Director George Tenet were battling Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
Interviewed on camera, Powell says that on 9/11, "I suggested to the president and my other colleagues that this was an opportunity to begin pulling together a worldwide coalition."
But according to journalist Bob Woodward, that same night Rumsfeld said, "Part of our response maybe should be attacking Iraq. It's an opportunity."
In this fractious environment, Rumsfeld distrusted the CIA's findings, so he set up his own Pentagon information-gathering unit. One of its reports drew the all-important link between Hussein and Osama bin Laden. Although both the FBI and CIA disputed the report's supporting evidence, Cheney cited it repeatedly as justification for attacking Iraq.
Richard Clarke, then the nation's counterterrorism czar, remembers being scolded by Cheney's chief of staff, Scooter Libby, for declaring he didn't believe the report.
As Clarke recalls, "I said, 'I don't believe it, because it's not true.' And he said, 'You're wrong. You know you're wrong. ... Go back and find the rest of the reports, and find out that you're wrong.' And I understood what he was saying, which was, 'This is a report that we want to believe, and stop saying it's not true.' "
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| Mar 24, 2008 @ 12:15 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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Kenn159
Posts: 4,402
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Thanks I check it out.
It is on PBS everybody. 
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| Mar 24, 2008 @ 4:20 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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MotownManiax
Posts: 9,737
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If anybody misses it, PBS usually runs an online version after the broadcast. 
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| Mar 24, 2008 @ 4:24 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,335
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I'm surprised that the Righties aren't here denouncing this to high Heaven- after all, PBS is a liberal-commie plot...
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| Mar 24, 2008 @ 4:31 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,926
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...Yea and I watch it everyday... go figure.
...Everything, right, left, or seemingly indifferent is up for discernment...
PS: Thanks raykl!
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| Mar 24, 2008 @ 6:38 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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kjac
Posts: 8,163
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I'm surprised that the Righties aren't here denouncing this to high Heaven- after all, PBS is a liberal-commie plot...
Yeah, but so is the media and the weather channel. 
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 1:10 AM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,926
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...It is on again, for the second time tonight. A bit left, it sure makes Rumsfeld and Cheney look like real bastards... which I already agreed with.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 3:03 AM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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kjac
Posts: 8,163
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It's hard to keep a bastard from looking like a bastard SG. Not even Fox News can prevent that.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 5:44 AM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,872
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details on the Bush/Rumsfeld War
When did Bush go to war with Rumsfeld and where were the hostilities conducted?
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 8:19 AM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,926
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...Oh, I would say their war started about the time Bush realized he had given Rumsfeld way to much power over an action neither was capable of accomplishing in even a reasonably efficient manner... while Osama Bin Laden still remains free, due to the same inept leadership over the finest military in the world.
...Their war ended, when Rumsfeld bailed ship a decade too late... forever recognized as the war idiot.
...Add the war profiteer Cheney and we remain in the preliminary stages of the cluster fcuk scenario called Iraq, having forgotten about rising Afghanistan, that by any World War standards, should have been a cake walk and not another perpetual cash suck for Halliburton and clan that must somehow be related to the Johnson clan of past Vietnam.
...I have no problem with destroying terrorists, or removing Sadaam. In fact, I endorse it completely and back same up with what I have as most valuable. But, I do have a problem with poor military strategy and management by idiots with no more sense than 90 day wonder 2nd Lieutenants, aligned with a weasel profiteer.
...If Iraq or Afghanistan had been a major military power, they would have waxed our asses and hopefully a lesson learned of who to elect as our Commander in Chief, but I doubt it.
...Get someone in there that knows what in the hell they are doing, finish the job and come home.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 10:53 AM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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raykl
Posts: 566
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When did Bush go to war with Rumsfeld and where were the hostilities conducted?
A slash or slant or solidus or virgule [ / ] (take your pick of names) is used to indicate a choice between the words it separates.
One would think a paralegal would know the use of punctuation.
One thing the report proves is that one hears what one wants to hear. In this case, Bush wanted a war with Iraq and believed what he wanted to believe. A similarity in history would be Johnson believing the Pentagon and McNamara as his justification for expanding our involvement in Vietnam.
A contrast to the two was Kennedy not listening to the military in the Cuba crisis (No, I am not one who thinks Kennedy was a great President- this was probably the only thing he did well). Kennedy listened to all sides of the argument before taking a course of action- solving a problem without the loss of life.
We may never know the reasoning of the three as why the were so adamant in going into Iraq. Power has an effect on certain people and at times it far exceeds intelligence.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 11:32 AM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,926
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raykl: Kennedy listened to all sides of the argument before taking a course of action- solving a problem without the loss of life.
...Oh, Kennedy tried and like this administration, screwed it up as well... by not listening to the military... in the Bay of Pigs, more than a few thousand died.
...Reminds me of Bush Sr. Iraq and the Kurds.
Bay of Pigs Invasion
...And what about Vietnam?
Oops, forgot a link:
Kennedy and Vietnam... sent 11.300 officers there.
[Edited on 3/25/2008 11:39 AM]
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 11:37 AM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,872
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We may never know the reasoning of the three as why the were so adamant in going into Iraq. Power has an effect on certain people and at times it far exceeds intelligence.
This statement is straight out of revisionist history by the Leftist claque! It is part of the Big Lie propaganda offensive that Liberals and more extreme Leftists are floating hoping that the average Boobus Americanus IS NOT a precision thinker and has no memory to impeach their insidious untruths.
So, once more I will set the record straight in order to prevent the lies from taking further root.
Iraq IS NOT Bush's war, it is not even America's war. It is a United Nations War. The decision to invade Iraq at first opportunity was promulgated and was a standing tenent of US foreign policy prior to George W. Bush becomming President of the United States, which invade Iraq when possible to do so foreign policy had been officially embraced by BOTH DEMOCRAT and also REPUBLICAN United States Presidents. This anti-Iraq plank was inherited by George W. Bush BECAUSE Iraq, under Saddam Hussein was not only a state sponsoring terror, but was also a nation in possession of chemical weapons of mass destruction which it had used to commit genocide against the Kurds.
Further, in its state sponsorship of terror, accredited diplomats holding Iraqi Diplomatic passports hijacked the Italian luxury liner, Achile Lauro in the Medeterranean Sea and while doing so, collected the passports from each passenger. When an American was discovered aboard ship, he was taken to the fantail of the ship, shot and killed, and he and his wheelchair were thrown into the sea.
Prior to the invasion of Iraq. Saddam Hussein's regime had amassed 16 United Nations Security Council Resolutions of condemnation. Iraq had militarily attacked four of its neighbor nations in the region and had waged two wars featuring invasion and offensive warfare, a crime against humanity. Those wars were waged against Iran and Kuwait. In addition to those predations Iraq also had used scud missiles to attack Saudi Arabia and also Israel.
The 17th United Nations Security Council Resolution finally authorized member states to force Iraq to comply with all prior UN Security Council Resolutions by any means necessary, a diplomatic phrase that is understood to include war.
That makes the military invasion and occupation of Iraq literally UN WAR II: Iraq. in like manner as UN WAR I: Korea was authorized and waged.
In addition to the UN authorization to invade Iraq, the Bipartisan US Congress also authorized the use of force.
Now the Leftists wish to create the impression, during an election year, that the whole idea to invade Iraq was exclusively the decision of George W. Bush. However precision thinkers see the ploy and remember the recent past and are outraged that the Leftist liars are using nomenclature such as Bush's War, but then the Leftists, like their brothers the Socialists and Communists on the political left have always used the Big Lie to advance their political causes.
The concept of invading Iraq was a very good one that both Democrat and Republican prior US Presidents had approved. While I personally would have taken more troops at the onset of war, and would have sealed Iraq's borders prior to taking Baghdad, to prevent the foreign fighters from gaining entry into Iraq, since the foreign fighters are the backbone of the Al Qaida in Iraq insurgency, the lack of resolve to seal the borders is the chief cause for the deaths of many United States military in Iraq, in like manner as was the decision to take light-skinned Humvees into Iraq instead of bringing only Armored Personnel Carriers to protect mobile troops against improvised explosive devices.
But I am NOT going to sit back and watch the Leftists lie their pants off without reminding the world about the 17 UN Security Council Resolutions, of Iraq's military attacks against 4 neighboring states in the region, and two offensive wars waged by the Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.
There is a reason why Saddam Hussein was hanged; he was guilty of crimes against humanity including genocide perpetrated against the Kurds by using Iraq's WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Iraq needed to be invaded and occupied. It was a good decision. Support for continuing the War in Iraq is just one of the reasons why Senator McCain leads Senator Clinton by 10 points in the polls, and also leads Senator Obama by 7 points in the popularity polls.
If the election were held today, McCain would be elected and America would continue the course of waging war in Iraq, which is both reasonable and proper.
And YES, everytime anyone posts a Big Lie I am so going to expose them...again, and again. And again.
[Edited on 3/25/2008 11:46 AM]
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 12:00 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,970
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And YES, everytime anyone posts a Big Lie I am so going to expose them...again, and again. And again
In my opinion, the only thing you are exposing is your own delusional ideas.
This war IS Bush's war.
All the others just helped him to pull it off.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 12:11 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,926
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Para: the lack of resolve to seal the borders is the chief cause for the deaths of many United States military in Iraq, in like manner as was the decision to take light-skinned Humvees into Iraq instead of bringing only Armored Personnel Carriers to protect mobile troops against improvised explosive devices.
...Once again, a war waged by idiots that lack(ed) the talent to be a cub scout leader.
...How did Sadaam come about to possess these chemical weapons? The US gave them to him to use against Iran and Britain built Fallujah ll.
...Where did the terrorists find the massive quantity of explosives to create IED's? Lacking enough troops, Rumsfeld ordered the abandonment of guarding Sadaam's ammo dumps for the big show arrival in Baghdad. Upon return, 280,000 pounds of plastic explosives were gone and killing our troops ever since.
...The US invasion was planned and being stockpiled a year before on Bahrain, yet still without vests (30,000 gven to the Turks), without logistics and a viable supply chain for armored, not enough troops, without a plan to close the borders, disarm the country, etc.
...In Afghanistan, Rumsfeld refused to send in the military when the CIA and JSOC had the total Taliban, including Osama Bin Laden basically cornered and let him slip away.
...These bastards in the White House are either stupid, or they want this war to be perpetual as profiteers; or both and taken from the history pages of Vietnam.
...We can agree that McCain is the only candidate with the ability to be Commander in Chief and maybe he can straighten this mess out.
...If within a reasonable amount of time and he cannot, then Congress needs to vote on pulling our troops out and the head of our Executive branch can concentrate on executing the existing laws by guarding our own borders, reinforcing Immigration laws and clean this country up of who knows how many terrorists already here.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 12:23 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,872
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...If within a reasonable amount of time and he cannot, then Congress needs to vote on pulling our troops out and the head of our Executive branch can concentrate on executing the existing laws by guarding our own borders, reinforcing Immigration laws and clean this country up of who knows how many terrorists already here.
Or we can elect a political clone of Paralegal_At_Law who will take all available troops to end the conflict in 3 days, seal the borders of both Iraq and also the United States of America, and clean this country up of the terrorists and illegal aliens already here, as a National Security mandate, while also bringing indictments against the reporters, editors, and publishers of the New York Times for the publication of state secrets in time of war, and also arrest the leading antiwar copperhead democrats committing felonies under the federal sedition laws, and call upon Congress to enact FCC Laws authorizing the personal licensure of broadcast news personalities and imposing an "Honesty and Fairness" mandate to utilize the publicly owned airwaves to transmit news programs. where the facts are presended in a partisan-neutral manner and analysis is the exclusive turf of official representatives from the National Democratic Committee and the National Republican Committee appearing at the same time in a point-counterpoint format, where the people hear and then individually weigh the import of the news and make their own decisions instead of being spoon-fed propaganda pablum, and it is also proposed that it be against federal law to suppress news from public dissemination.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 12:38 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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raykl
Posts: 566
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...Oh, Kennedy tried and like this administration, screwed it up as well... by not listening to the military... in the Bay of Pigs, more than a few thousand died.
SG: I was writing about the Cuban Missle Crisis. Everyone will agree that the Bay of Pigs was a complete disaster by Kennedy and the military, especially Kennedy.
Or we can elect a political clone of Paralegal_At_Law 
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 1:02 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,872
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Or we can elect a political clone of Paralegal_At_Law
               
Unto us a son is given, unto us a son is born, and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be Wonderful, Counsellor, and etc.(just to rub the noses of the Leftists in it, for a minute or two) as we touch our sparkling white wine glasses in toasting the political demise of Leftist philosophy in the 21st Century.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 1:46 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,511
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Further, in its state sponsorship of terror, accredited diplomats holding Iraqi Diplomatic passports hijacked the Italian luxury liner, Achile Lauro in the Medeterranean Sea and while doing so, collected the passports from each passenger. When an American was discovered aboard ship, he was taken to the fantail of the ship, shot and killed, and he and his wheelchair were thrown into the sea.
And you have the nerve to talk about "The Big Lie"???
ONE man, Abu Abbas, was the only one carrying a diplomatic passport. One isn't isn't "accredited Iraqi diplomats." (Tell the instructor when you sign up for that Remedial English class that you have problems with singular and plural forms.) Abu Abbas didn't shot Leon Klinghoffer. In fact, he wasn't ever aboard the Achille Lauro. That is part of why the Italian police let him go on his diplomatic passport. .As for the others, "The terrorists boarded with passports issued from Norway, Argentina, and Portugal." The fact that you chose to single out someone who wasn't even on board and claim that this plot was part of Iraq's "state sponsorship of terror" is one of your bigger whoppers and shows the lies the supporters of this war will indulge in to try to claim they were "right."
Newsflash. When you're right, you don't have to lie about what your reasons are.
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 1:48 PM |
'Frontline: Bush's War'- Tonight at 9 |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,926
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Para: while also bringing indictments against the reporters, editors, and publishers of the New York Times for the publication of state secrets in time of war...
...But, who in the government leaked said secrets? If the news people know it, so do our enemies.
...3 days? That would be quick!
raykl: SG: I was writing about the Cuban Missle Crisis. Everyone will agree that the Bay of Pigs was a complete disaster by Kennedy and the military, especially Kennedy.
...Got it; thanks...
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