| Apr 2 @ 6:56 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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Blondino
Posts: 4,265
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I have been watching documentaries on Prisons and punishment ( must get out more  )... have a look at how they do it in Norway ..... very interesting concept
>>>> Another Kind of Prison <<<<
This is another clip .. stick with the first few minutes ... but worth watching 
>>> No one Would Believe It <<<<
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| Apr 2 @ 8:25 AM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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eastham
Posts: 6,341
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One of the more interesting, but less focused upon, sections of Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America was his review of the American prison system.
De Tocqueville focused on Auburn Prison, a New York prison that focused on rehabilitation through work. Prison life at Auburn was modeled after a Quaker system and focused on prayer, work (including the learning of a trade), and humane conditions. Life at Auburn was no walk in the park, conditions were harsh, including long enforced periods of silence. For de Tocqueville, the system at Auburn was a revelation, because most of Europe's prison were an abomination, little changed from medieval times. We've obviously lost our way as pioneers in this area.
While living in Virginia, one of my neighbors was a retired prison warden. In fact, she was one of the first (I think THE first) woman to serve as the warden of a men's level 5 prison. Her walls were adorned with beautiful paintings, painted and given to her as gifts by some of the inmates.
She told me she was glad she retired, because she hadn't liked the changes that were occuring within the prison system, changes she thought would lead to higher rates of mental illness in prisoners and make prison life more dangerous for prison personnel. Sleep deprivation and puntitive measures with little provocation, she feared, were causing psychotic breaks in many prisoners -- prisoners who were not career criminals and were more likely than not in prison for a short period of time. Burglers, car thieves -- men who might return to regular suburban neighborhoods unglued from their prison experience.
I can only imagine the kinds of comments that will be added to this thread Most won't watch all of the clips and hear an inmate say, "For as nice as it is, you never forget this is prison."
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| Apr 2 @ 8:30 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 8,063
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I watched both clips.. but think..it would be ok for lesser crimes... but for someone who killed two people and dismembered them to be allowed to run free with a chain saw, and will eventually be let out in society ....is pushing the envelope a tad much... 
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| Apr 2 @ 8:51 AM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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Blondino
Posts: 4,265
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Gallows I hear you ....... point is it works in Norway
and other Scandinavian countries
So good for them  Maybe other countries need to rethink
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| Apr 2 @ 9:51 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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eastham
Posts: 6,341
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There seems to be some sort of mechanism/process for a prisoner to be moved from a more traditional prison in Norway to this program. I would be interesting to know how a prisoner is picked. I'm thinking he must be a model prisoner to be moved to this program. I also think the transitioning work that this program does with the prisoners is key to their success.
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| Apr 2 @ 10:10 AM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,514
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...The US prison system has had working farms for a long time; many programs closed by liberal groups that proclaim it was the same as slave labor, while the farm ground was and is being sold off. Nor can religion be introduced, or forced upon.
...Simply do a Google search for Prison farms in US, or US prison farms.
Prison Farms in US
US Prison Farms
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| Apr 2 @ 10:52 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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Blondino
Posts: 4,265
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its said to be first of its type worldwide ... according to the news & international interest .. self sufficient ....
http://current.com/items/88860207_free_range_jailbirds
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| Apr 2 @ 11:02 AM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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eastham
Posts: 6,341
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The problem and the opposition to these farms versus the one shown in the video clips is that in many occasions, the prisoners were "farmed out" to private enterprises (farms, lumber camps, etc). That was the penal servitude that violated the law (there are penal servitude prohibitions in the 13th amendment to the Constitution) that ended the program, not necessarily farms or work programs within the prison system itself.
Many of the prison programs that provided education and work skills have ended. There are still work programs in prison, but rather than providing an education for the prisoner and was focused on reducing recidivism, these programs are now money makers for the prison.
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| Apr 2 @ 11:04 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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Blondino
Posts: 4,265
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anyone on here like to share personal
experiences of their life in a farm prison 
 always a few ex inmates lurking in every shadow
Beach Walks With Rox
http://www.beachwalks.tv/2007/09/10/beach-walk-490-rethinking-prison-in-norway/
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| Apr 2 @ 11:20 AM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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Mischief484
Posts: 645
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I wonder how that system would work if the majority of its inmates were MS-13 or Crips / Bloods.
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| Apr 2 @ 11:20 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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SensualGemini
Posts: 3,514
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its said to be first of its type worldwide ...Although certainly not a new concept as far as prison farms are concerned, it is ran differently; such as includes tourism.
...Norway has a populous of about 4.5 million and with income from state owned oil fields, high tax base, they certainly have ample funds for the small populous that is about 70%, all have blue eyes.
...Multiply the populous by about 80 times and you have the US, with little to no state owned income that benefits all and with a much larger base of increasing ethnic issues.
...Absolutely! ... Norway has a wonderful quality of life, as it can afford it by having a small populous, with a staggering average USD income of close to $40,000 annual and a rich government by any standards, due to state owned oil.
...Poverty remains a measurement for the quality of life in any country.
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| Apr 2 @ 11:30 AM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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I wonder how that system would work if the majority of its inmates were MS-13 or Crips / Bloods. now you know they would play nicey nice.......
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| Apr 2 @ 11:37 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,272
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http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/
I wonder how that system would work if the majority of its inmates were MS-13 or Crips / Bloods.
I believe this will work for them!
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| Apr 2 @ 1:01 PM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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Loreli
Posts: 20,315
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Well, my Mom thinks dog food smells awesome...maybe they ought to feed them all the same thing!!
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| Apr 2 @ 7:01 PM |
Another Kind of Prison
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blueyes101
Posts: 8,307
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Take the worst of the worst, line em up, and execute them, then have the rest dig the holes and bury them, then let the inmates cut/mow the grass above it, as the amount of bodies increases, they just might think twice about what side of the dirt they choose to be on/under. The gangs are running the prisons, and even the good decent people who do make it to prison, are forced to get as tough as the toughest just to survive. Rehabilitation??? They are coming out worse then they went in.
It is all about respect, they are willing to spend months in solitary just because if they don't attack someone that showed them disrespect, they are doomed, to become somebodies bitch.
They spend all of their waking moments training to fight each other, it becomes a kill or be killed mentality. And since the prison is full of gangs, and divided by race, they are all against each other.
Funny how the liberals have given so many rights to inmates, and when they get out, they have no tolerance for anybody, or anything, which is why they are doomed to return. So, each time they get out, it is OUR RIGHTS that are in jeopardy.
Take away pay perview boxing matches, and make them watch Andy Griffith, and Leave it to beaver episodes.
Take away the weight sets, and give them a shovel, make them realize they may be digging their own grave.
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| Apr 2 @ 10:02 PM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,081
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I have to point out to some of the "liberal haters" that since 1980 or there about republicans have been in charge. Democrats have had the Presidency for 8 years and the Congress for a lot less! Now, since all that we are now sending people with a gram of crack to the pen for 25 to life while we are sending white colar criminals for about 2-3 years. And murderers for about 7 years!
Truth in sentencing laws need to come into effect! White collar criminals stealing the life savings of investors and others should do life without pardon or parole! Murderers should never get out! Crack Dealers with more than 5 grams should do no less that 10 years. Powdered Cocaine should have the same sentence! Today, even though they are the same drug different strength, the one caught with Powdered Coke will do about 4-5 years or get probation!
I would say the talk about liberals is just that a lot of mouth running and absolutely no facts to back up your blather!
One more thing what does it say about our country when we have the largest prison population on the planet and still growing, by the way! And over 50% of those are there for drugs!
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| Apr 3 @ 1:26 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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smilingfaces79
Posts: 41
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anyone on here like to share personal
experiences of their life in a farm prison
I am not an ex inmate but I am a Correction Officer. Programs that offer inmates a skill or an education are great. In New York there are numerous programs available in facilities with various security levels but the problem is the inmates. Not every inmate is incorrigible or incapable of being reformed but a lot of them are . Unless you can get the person to understand and except that their behavior is inappropriate you will achieve nothing.
I am presently assigned to a minimum security facility that has a farm program. The inmates there have learned how to run a farm and are very good at it. But they are still incapable of settling disputes in a civil manner and have no respect for the rules. They get upset because they are being observed by officers while working. They get whipped up into a frenzy over the officer doing his or her job and do stupid things. They make threats, refuse to obey direct orders etc.............
When everything is said done they get shipped to a Super Max and put in Special Housing for 90 days. They lose a lot of thier privilages and in some cases get extra time added to their sentence.
You can have all the programs in the world but if a person does not choose to change, programs will not make a difference.
[Edited on 4/3/2008 1:37 AM]
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| Apr 3 @ 1:32 AM |
Another Kind of Prison |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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^^^^^  
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| Apr 3 @ 2:23 AM |
Another Kind of Prison
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,786
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I have to point out to some of the "liberal haters" that since 1980 or there about republicans have been in charge. Democrats have had the Presidency for 8 years and the Congress for a lot less! Now, since all that we are now sending people with a gram of crack to the pen for 25 to life while we are sending white colar criminals for about 2-3 years. And murderers for about 7 years!
Truth in sentencing laws need to come into effect! White collar criminals stealing the life savings of investors and others should do life without pardon or parole! Murderers should never get out! Crack Dealers with more than 5 grams should do no less that 10 years. Powdered Cocaine should have the same sentence! Today, even though they are the same drug different strength, the one caught with Powdered Coke will do about 4-5 years or get probation!
The problem is not so much the sentencing laws, but rather the entire judicial system. The courts are simply over whelmed by crime and as such, most cases simply are not tried, they are settled. Murder charges are reduced to manslaughter, and a plea of guilty is entered. Attempted murder becomes aggravated assault. Armed robbery becomes breaking & entering. The criminals know this and they know how to work the system.
DA's are over worked and undertrained. Here in Charlotte, our local DA's office is currently short 26 prosecutors & we can't get funding from the government to hire more. Our county jail, is constantly over crowded and we are forced to let convicted felons go, as there is no place to put them. We have people in county lockup that have been awaiting trial for murder, for over three years, but we can't even get them in front of judge, as there is nobody to prosecute the case!
Charlotte is not an isolated case. Look in any large metro area and will find things are much the same. The courts serve as a revolving door. While we do have the highest rate of incarceration of any western nation, it isn't nearly high enough. As long we continue to allow criminals to walk free, crime is just going to continue. It is not liberal / conservative issue. It is a matter of funding priorities. The government has only so much money and the demand for goods and services is far exceeding their capacity to deliver it.
Of course, one solution that would actually work, while simple, will never happen. Legalize vice (drugs, gambling & prostitution), tax the proceeds and remove the criminal element from those activities. We tried prohibition in the 20's and the result was the creation of a large, violent criminal element in our society. It took several years, but the government finally learned their lesson and they repealed prohibition. I just wish that our current government (both parties) would do the same today and once again end prohibition.
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| Apr 4 @ 3:58 AM |
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sweetgypsysoul
Posts: 56
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As I understand it, Norway is a safer country to live in. It's a liberal/socialist's near utopia .. I'm wondering if their prison system works because all are taken care of .. health care, wages, etc. People who have what they need and have about as much as the next seem to be less likely to push the limits through crime. How much is crime based on an unequal society and does that make the possibility of such a prison as the videos present more possible?
(Oh, and 'hi' all .. I browse the forums daily, but don't often post.)
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