| Apr 9 @ 6:05 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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raykl
Posts: 566
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http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08100/871488-109.stm
Now, before our fine friends, the Right Wing Religious Conservative Looney Bins,
begin slamming the Democrats, this is the Bill that their idol (Maronic George III)
has just sent to Congress seeking their approval.
I guess human rights complaints only go against those countries where financial gain is not forthcomming to those who seek it.
Politicians are politicians- whatever is in their best interests, regardless of rhetoric that would state otherwise.
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| Apr 9 @ 6:54 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,786
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Then there is the other side of the issue.
Colombia is one of our strongest allies in the Western Hemisphere. They are led by a very strong and courageous leader, President Uribe. He's taken courageous stands to defend our shared democratic values. He's been a strong and capable partner in fighting drugs, crime and terror. And he's delivering results.
The Colombian government reports that since 2002, kidnappings, terrorist attacks and murders are all down substantially, as is violence against union members. Despite this progress, Colombia remains under intense pressure in the region. It faces a continuing assault from the terrorist network known as FARC, which has seized hostages and murdered innocent folks, including Americans, in an attempt to overthrew Colombia's democracy.
Colombia also faces a hostile and anti-American regime in Venezuela, which has met with FARC terrorist leaders and deployed troops to the Colombian border as a means of intimidating the Colombian government and its people. President Uribe has stood strong against these threats, and he's done so with the assurance of America's support. Because this fight against tyranny and terror is a fight that we share.
President Uribe has told members of Congress, and me as well, that approving the free trade agreement is the best way for America to demonstrate our support for Colombia. People throughout the hemisphere are watching to see what the United States will do. If Congress fails to approve this agreement, it would not only abandon a brave ally; it would send a signal throughout the region that America cannot be counted on to support its friends.
The Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, has said, if the U.S. turns its back on its friends in Colombia, this will set back our cause far more than any Latin American dictator could hope to achieve.
Approving the free trade agreement will also strengthen our economy. Today almost all of Colombia's exports enter the United States duty-free, while American products exported to Colombia face tariffs of up to 35 percent for non-agricultural goods, and much higher for many agricultural products.
In other words, the current situation is one-sided. Our markets are open to Colombia products, but barriers exist to make it harder to sell American products in Colombia. I think it makes sense to remedy this situation. I think it makes sense for Americans' goods and services to be treated just like Colombia's goods and services are treated. So it's time to level the playing field.
As soon as it's implemented, the agreement I'm sending Congress will eliminate tariffs on more than 80 percent of American exports of industrial and consumer goods. Many products in key American sectors, such as agriculture and construction equipment, aircraft and auto parts, medical and scientific equipment, will enter Colombia duty-free.
If you're an American farmer, it's in your interest that this agreement get passed. After all, farm exports like high-quality beef, cotton, soybeans and fruit will enter duty-free. In a time this agreement will eliminate tariffs on all of America's exports to Colombia. Level the playing field for American exporters is especially important during this time of economic uncertainty. Last year exports accounted for more than 40 percent of America's total economic growth.
The economy slowing recently, we should be doing everything we can to open up new opportunities for growth. More than 9,000 American companies, most of them small and mid- sized businesses, export to Colombia. Approving this agreement will help them increase their sales and grow their businesses and create high-paying jobs. The economic effects of expanding trade and goods and services are overwhelmingly positive.
But trade can also have a negative impact for some of our citizens. In those cases, government has a responsibility to help workers obtain the skills they need to successfully reenter the workforce. My administration is actively engaged in discussions on legislation to improve and reauthorize trade adjustment assistance program. We're committed to advancing the discussions as quickly as possible. I look forward to completing an agreement on trade adjustment that draws on many of the good ideas contained in bills introduced in the House and the Senate. I look forward to signing a good bipartisan piece of legislation.
In discussions about the Colombia Free Trade Agreement, some members of Congress have raised concerns about the conditions in Colombia. President Uribe has addressed those issues. He's addressed violence by demobilizing tens of thousands of paramilitary figures and fighters. He's addressed attacks on trade unionists by stepping up funding for prosecutions, establishing an independent prosecutors unit and creating a special program that protects labor activists. He's made clear that the economic benefits the agreement brings to Colombia would strengthen the fight against drugs and terror by creating a more hopeful alternative for the people of Colombia.
Source - Washington Post
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| Apr 9 @ 7:12 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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raykl
Posts: 566
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Yes
Sorry for the confusion. My purpose was not to say Yay or Nay to the Bill, but to show again how politicians will say one thing and secretly plan to do the opposite.
Spinning numbers and statistics to prove your point has been a fine art developed by politicians to justify whatever their goal may be. This has been accomplished by both sides.
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| Apr 10 @ 1:44 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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In the five years of Mr. Uribe's tenure, more than 955 civilians have been murdered directly by the government's soldiers, as well -- a 65 percent increase over the prior five-year period.
So the Columbian government is "taking out the trash" with regard to the drug cartels and also the leftists FALC guerillas, including the FALC front-organization trade union guerilla sympathizers?
Anyone who knows anything about the Columbian drug cartels or the dangers posed by the FALC guerillas that are sponsored by Fidel's new best friend, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, realize that criminal cartel members that are killed, just like the Leftists of the FALC guerillas that are killed by Columbian military or police forces, make the world a better place for all of us.
If I could be assured of positive results for it to be used exclusively against the Columbian drug cartels or the FALC guerillas that are the pupits of wannabe dictator Hugo Chavez, or perhaps even the "wouldn't it be nice" assassination of Chavez by Columbia, I would be more than happy to donate one American Dollar to the Columbian government as a dedicated donation to be expenced only for the purchase of sniper ammunition.
I think the labor union deaths may have been done by the crime cartels, or that the dead guys are FALC undercover personnel posing as representatives of a very leftist trade union front organization.
Uribe is a reliable CIA client and national leader. I would love to have a dozen Uribe El Presidentes than even one Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro.
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| Apr 10 @ 1:54 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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The Gulfstream (busted in Mexico with 4 tons of cocaine), for example, picked up its multi-load of cocaine at the international airport in Rio Negro, just outside of Medellin. Although the city became famous as Pablo Escobar’s hometown, today Medellin is known for being current Colombian President Alvaro Uribe’s home turf… So it wasn’t FARC Dope. http://www.madcowprod.com/01162008.html
...and actually the plane was CIA connected, so yeah...Uribe prolly has political and economic favors that need to be repaid -- even if he has blown away union leaders.
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| Apr 10 @ 2:03 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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Uribe prolly has political and economic favors that need to be repaid
Supposition and conjecture heaped upon guesses and wishful thinking or divination of proposed findings. Your personal knowledge of this situation is limited to what the news media tells you.
It is best to reserve judgment until the facts are known.
The CIA has legitimate drug interdiction duties, which occasionally require it to inflitrate and pose as dealers. The plane may well have been of CIA front organization registry and may be filled to the brim with drugs, but that does not mean that the US government was not trying to lure in some major narcotraficante crooks when agents of the US government play, "Let's make a drug deal."
Of course there are rogue agents in the CIA, which means that their actions are not the official business of the CIA at all.
but remember, the news media do not have clean hands and do have a hidden agenda and are not above suppressing truth or spinning lies.
Accordingly, all printed and broadcast news media should start by leading with the words "Once upon a time. . . "
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| Apr 10 @ 2:19 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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So it is ok for you to to conjecture that the union leaders killed by Uribe were victims of the FARC and Uribe is clean of all wrong-doing, but the FACT that two CIA connected American-registered planes carrying 4 and 5.5 tons of cocaine from Uribe's hometown to St Petersberg, FL were busted in Mexico without any repercussions to any owners....well any interpretation of the bad smell from those facts is just guesses and wishful thinking...
REAL PRECISION THINKING in that logic there PAL!
By the way...the facts about the drug busts and the planes come mostly from Mexican news and one lone US investigative reporter as the US news (entertainment) media somehow does not think that there are any drug lords in the US...in spite of the two CIA-connected American-registered planes being part of a 50-plane deal...
but remember, the news media do not have clean hands and do have a hidden agenda and are not above suppressing truth or spinning lies.
Too true...
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| Apr 10 @ 2:22 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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Au contraire,
Lacy, the fact that there were no repurcussions indicates that the plane filled with dope WAS a CIA drug interdiction flight attempting to indict the bad guys with possession and sale of the bad stuff.
For instance the USA and Mexico have a cooperating joint drug task force.
Naturally, they waive prosecution on official business drug deals.
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| Apr 10 @ 2:34 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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Wow! Happened twice...and there were so many strange deaths in Mexico related to those busts...
Sure am glad you straightened me out on that though...
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| Apr 10 @ 2:48 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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there were so many strange deaths in Mexico related to those busts
Bad guys do get killed sometimes in the commission of a felony.
While there has been many prison breaks, no one has ever escaped from a cemetery.
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| Apr 10 @ 3:19 AM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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Good guys get killed sometimes in a felony as well. And often mouths are permanently closed. The stronger suppress the weaker and justice does not always prevail.
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| Apr 10 @ 11:03 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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I have no idea what the laws of the nation of Columbia are, but militant Marxist Guerillas are committing treason against the state down there so the state security agents, military, and police using lethal force to suppress Marxist guerillas that are Hell-bent on creating a war of national liberation fostered by Venezuela and its wannabe dictator appear to be simply "taking out the trash."
Unofficial militias whose loyalty is to the nation of Columbia are exercising a citizen's arrest when suppressing Marxist guerillas who are conspiring to commit treason in Columbia and to foment insurrection by bombs, murder, and mayhem.
Hard to blame someone for taking action against Marxists in any theater of operations given the world history of those horrific and criminal agents constituting the enemies of Humanity.
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| Apr 10 @ 11:10 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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Nightowl001
Posts: 4,134
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Hard to blame someone for taking action against Marxists in any theater of operations given the world history of those horrific and criminal agents constituting the enemies of Humanity.
I'll bet the kibbutzim in Israel just annoy the crap out of you, don't they?
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| Apr 10 @ 11:18 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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kibbutzim in Israel just annoy the crap out of you
Not all collectivism is Marxism. I am opposed to the Communist International.
So when any Communist guerilla movement is bombed or overrun by ground troops and the bad guys who are monsters end up dead, that is a very good thing.
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| Apr 10 @ 11:21 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,554
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Make no mistake: Para opposes leftist dictatorships. He has no problems with right-wing dictatorships, as long as the Republican leadership says they're our friends (i.e. they're supporting US corporations, and there is no current need to "wag the dog").
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| Apr 10 @ 11:27 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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And if a few innocents get killed in the process...oh well...
In the five years of Mr. Uribe's tenure, more than 955 civilians have been murdered directly by the government's soldiers, as well -- a 65 percent increase over the prior five-year period. Among these also have been union leaders. from the article at the top of this thread.
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| Apr 10 @ 11:30 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,081
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I understand that the so-called Marxist in Columbia have been marching for higher pay, medical care and schooling for their children!
Now, for the life of me that just doesn't sound like a street full of "commies" to me! It sounds like people being exploited for the multi-national corporations! Starving those people and having them live in squalor!
I say send those people wanting trade unions some 100-500 thousand AK-47 Assault Rifles and ammunition for same. Then let the government of Colombia find out if trade unions are good or if dying would be better!
I guarantee negotiations would start immediately!
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| Apr 10 @ 11:30 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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if a few innocents get killed
The collumn did not mention any innocents, but instead referred to FALC infiltrated union leaders and Marxist guerillas. None of those two sets of people would qualify in Columbia as being innocent.
For years, Colombia has been the most dangerous country in the world for trade unionists. More than 2,300 were killed there since 1991, including 17 in the first three months of this year, according to Colombia's well-respected Semana magazine.
Four of this year's victims were murdered over a four-day period after a spokesman for President Alvaro Uribe characterized a nonviolent march they helped to organize as being "convened" by the Marxist FARC guerillas who have battled the government for decades.
The word "innocent" does not appear in the opening text of this article and was "divined" as a personal opinion.
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| Apr 10 @ 11:33 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops!
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,554
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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're attempting to get across. Are you saying that assassinations of civilians is copacetic?
The old right-wing "disappeared" angle, right?
Edit for Para's second-chance attempt:
Ahhhh... So if someone is killed, by definition they were guilty until not given the chance to be proven innocent? Got it, just trying to understand where you're coming from...
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| Apr 10 @ 11:43 PM |
The Clinton Columbia Oops! |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,068
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Para opposes leftist dictatorships. He has no problems with right-wing dictatorships, as long as the Republican leadership says they're our friends
In college political science class one day, the Prof assigned us an essay to write, on the topic: "If there were no other choices other than living in a Communist Dictatorship or a Fascist Dictatorship, which one would you choose, and fully support your arguments with persuasive reasoning?"
I never thought about the choice of settling for the lesser of those two monsterous evils before. However, the Communists are athiests and suppress the free exercise of religion and also do not permit the ownership of private property or the exercise of capitalism. That is why I oppose Leftist dictatorships totally and support the overthrow of Leftist regimes by armed force; of the two evils, they are by far the very worst choice.
In my view, Communism is the much greater evil followed by their cousins, Socialism, which system also collectivizes property into the hands of the state.
Then along came Sir Winston Churchill who said, "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the rest." How profoundly true.
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