| Apr 11, 2008 @ 2:45 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 11,167
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Yeah I hate them which means I will never touch one of them. But there are certain "people" that just deserve to die, like these nasty f***s. I don't care what their religion is.
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| Apr 11, 2008 @ 2:47 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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budo13
Posts: 3,657
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thats ok LGQ i'll first make sure they are guilty and do the job for you!
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| Apr 11, 2008 @ 2:52 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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There is not any remote amount of proof that girls were forced into sex at puberty, but ad lib sensationalism. You and I both know that millions of "arranged marriages" are quite common throughout the world, including the US.
arranged marriage are different to forced marriages ........
when a marriage is arranged .. the meeting is arranged ..for the lady to look and see if she likes the man .. the choice is for the lady 
... when it is forced  the marriage is obligatory ... in educated society the introduced , or arranged meetings is "de riguer " ... I find it can be very very successful .....as successful as random meetings of opposite sex in a bar / pub / pick up place
If you profess to know about this culture then at least differentiate between the two
In my experience the arranged marriage is very successful .. its when your friends introduce you to men they think you may like .,.... I am up for that if anyone knows anyone they think I may like Let him be tall ... funny and intelligent ... and mmmm nice backside is a bonus .... then please let me know ....  
Now ...forced marriage is about the mostly uneducated , primitive people who force their kids into a marriage for monetary advantage and that is wrong 
Can a woman be forced into marriage in Islam?
Absolutely not! Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding this issue:
Abu Huraira Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as having said: "A woman without a husband (or divorced or a widow) must not be married until she is consulted, and a virgin must not be married until her permission is sought. They asked the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him): How her (virgin's) consent can be solicited? He (the Holy Prophet) said: That she keeps silence. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3303)"
Koran says no
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| Apr 11, 2008 @ 3:33 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 7,411
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Lefty: Of course we must understand this is Texas where they make laws as they go!
...The Feds are involved in this now and they make the rules as they go, or justify by the end result.
...It remains as one hell of a psychological tool to gather admissions, real or not, by taking a woman's children away, threatening that she will never see them again, possibly face criminal charges or other negative actions, if she does not agree to such and such.
...What could be more cruel than how these perported victims are being treated by an agency, a government, that further attempts to convince the public they are helping by being the moral police?
...Certainly the government will make a case; they have over 400 Mothers and children and all they need is one or two to make admissions.
...And while many of the same pro-DFS activity condone this BS... in the same breath, abhor the techniques used for jihadist at Guantanamo bay; they and DFS remain as hypocrites..
======================
LGQ: All of these disgusting child molesters should be lined up and shot.
... ... and if 16 is too young to be married, then raise it! How complicated can this be? There are states, including Texas, that with a court order, 14 year olds can marry.
======================
...But, we all know the foundation of this is about polygamy and the age discretion between two parties that are legally able to be married.
...Homosexual marriages, homosexuals adopting and raising children are all on the list of the moral police.
...Yet here, we already have laws in place that allow these girls to marry, as well as allow boys to marry much older women.
...And here in the US, we have a large and growing base of polygamy brought into this country by immigration or religious converts, which do not require the common marriage license to be married and thus, without any legal control or recourse.
...In fact, the absent of such paperwork, allows the Mothers to subscribe to all of the social programs available.
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| Apr 11, 2008 @ 3:57 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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SensualGemini
Posts: 7,411
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Blondino :In my experience the arranged marriage is very successful .. its when your friends introduce you to men they think you may like
... 
...Whatever, as family arranged marriages are for a reason, often committed to at a very young age and you know as well as I do, that the "engagement" celebration is 10 times larger than the actual later marriage party.
...The Muslim marriage takes place when body fluid meets body fluid, or as in seemingly ancient Christian, when consummated.
...A divorced or widowed woman is to be "consulted," whereas a virgin is to give her permission. The virgin is still with her parents, where the widowed is on her own and the divorced was sent back to her Father and may or may not have been accepted.
...To say that members of the Muslim religion do not instill tremendous pressure on arranged marriages is ludicrous at best.
...If one or the other decides against this arranged marriage, they are not treated well by the family, or the community and typically leave the area, or even the country.
...You and I both know the process for Muslim divorce is quite simple in most countries besides the Western world. "He" simply states "I divorce you" three times and walla! ... she goes back to her family.
...Polygamy is allowed to the point that he can support. The first wife agrees to the second and the first and second agree to the third, etc. With the easy availability of divorcing anyone not in agreement and she returns in shame to her Father, few will disagree.
...The Koran says no, unless she says yes and how she is convinced to say yes, remains the untold story and you also know this.
If you profess to know about this culture then at least differentiate between the two
... I just did and you don't really know what or who I am. 
PS: I never mentioned Muslim and "arranged marriages" ... you brought it up.
[Edited on 4/11/2008 4:13 PM]
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| Apr 11, 2008 @ 8:48 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 22,808
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http://www.matchdoctor.com/blog_86862/The_Horrors_of_the_Eldorado_Compound.html
I thought this blog was interesting.
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| Apr 11, 2008 @ 9:02 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,961
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The men in this religion, can go from state to state and country to country where they have their related communities set up. One man can have dozens of marriages.
If a community does not let in new members, then later incest develops.
Since this particular group community in Texas are followers of Warren Jeffs, sodomy is also a possibility of being practiced, for Jeffs was sodomized through his own Father. Then when his Father died, Jeffs married 10 of his Father's wives; his Father had 12.
He moved on to spreading his religion and beliefs in various states and countries setting up his communites; Utah, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, South Dakoda, and moving on to Mexico, Canada, British Columbia.
This should have been stopped back when he was convicted in 2006! Now any females that were at age 10 or 11, are at puberty for having children to expand their community.
I watched a few "Youtubes" on some stories these women were sharing; very sad! One woman that got away (which is rare), had a total of 13 children of 2 Fathers. The wives would get beaten if they even looked at another man or if they had a bra strap showing. 
I heard that this faith no longer practice polygamy, etc., but they never removed it from their books.
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| Apr 11, 2008 @ 10:58 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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iglooo101
Posts: 6,347
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SyndilLucia, I know I am going to get lambasted because girls have sex at 16
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/health/5058432/detail.html
It found that the average age teenage girls had sexual intercourse in 1999 was 15. The average age during the 1950s and 1960s was 19. Overall, the percentage of sexually-actively teenage girls in 1999 was 50 percent, compared to 13 percent in 1943.
The girls and boys will experiment all (drugs, sex etc...) (like it or not)
Now, the real question is (for you as a jury if you were to appear in a court of law)
which is better (for the kid(mentally,emotionally and financially) and for the mother(mentally,emotionally and financially))?
to know the father or not to know the father?
to live in a family or to be raised by a single parent?
[Edited on 4/11/2008 11:09 PM]
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| Apr 12, 2008 @ 2:53 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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SensualGemini
Posts: 7,411
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Katt: I thought this blog was interesting.
...It was... thanks!
...It makes me wish the gang bangers around here had half the discipline, manners and respect these kids have.
===================
Angel: I watched a few "Youtubes" on some stories these women were sharing; very sad!
...I looked for them, but don't think I found exactly what you were watching?
Since this particular group community in Texas are followers of Warren Jeffs, sodomy is also a possibility of being practiced...
...Since Jeffs has been in prison, I would imagine he is learning all about that "practice."
======================
...The FLDS Church is reported to have assets in access of $100 million, that the courts have seen to get their hands on. Obviously, there is plenty of money there to provide these women and children a good life... that is, until the bureaucrats get through with it.
...These young women do not trust the government and from past practice in Colorado City and Department of Child and Family Services, they have good reason not to. There, runaway girls were always returned to their parents by DCFS
...When Fawn Broadbent and Fawn Holm, both 16 ran away from FLDS Church in Colorado City, both found themselves running from state custody as well. The teens were first placed in a home of ex FLDS member Flora Jessop's choosing by Arizona authorities, but Jessop was later ordered by the court to stay away from the girls. The girls, fearing being returned to FLDS as the DCFS had done to all prior, ran away from even state custody.
...So far, including Texas, DCFS cannot seem to figure out who the victims are, but by segregating children from Mothers; children into foster care and Mothers basically incarcerated and threatened, damn sure continues to help them suffer more.
...If there are men that are participating in underage sex, committing rape, whether of age or not, then just take them out back, have them dig their own graves and shoot them... and leave the women and kids alone.
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| Apr 12, 2008 @ 3:00 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,961
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...Since Jeffs has been in prison, I would imagine he is learning all about that "practice." Especially if they are African-American
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| Apr 12, 2008 @ 6:30 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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iglooo101
Posts: 6,347
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,350973,00.html
Attorney for Polygamist Leader Says
Tip That Led to Ranch Raid May Have Been Hoax
Will it backfire? and to what extent?
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| Apr 12, 2008 @ 6:36 PM |
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BandTMom
Posts: 39,416
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I don't think so.
Flora Jessop, who left the FLDS church years ago and leads the nonprofit Child Protection Project, told The Republic Friday that she submitted information to Arizona authorities after receiving calls from a pregnant teenager in Colorado City.
"I have been speaking to a little girl who has my guts in knots," Jessop said. "It is a very credible, very believable, very abused little girl."
She said she was not surprised by Piccarreta's comments. "That's what good attorneys do. They try to discredit the victim to free the predators," Jessop said.
Quoted from above article.
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| Apr 12, 2008 @ 7:02 PM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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eastham
Posts: 8,139
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Say you say Mom, this is hardly new information about this group. The FLDS has had a number of women who have left the sect, all to tell similar stories of abuse and being "married" to older men four times their age.
Let's not forget Brian David Mitchell who kidnapped 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart from her Utah bedroon and "married" her. Following the marriage, which was witnessed by his other wife, Wanda Barzee, Mitchell raped and sodomized the teen.
Warren Jeffs is currently in prison and awaits charges/trial in at least one of the state, Nevada. Another leader of the FLDS, Tom Green, proclaimed to the world on Dateline that he had married the majority of his wives for they reached the age of majority. One wife, Green enpregnated when she was barely 13. Carolyn Jessup, a mother of 8 who left the group with her children and $20, said that the reason she had fled was that Jeffs was planning to marry Jessop's eldest daughter, then aged 13.
Incest is also very common. Young girls are married to their uncles. Men marry the daughters and younger sisters of their existing wives.
The members of the FLDS are isolated from society. Their every action and thought are controlled. Absolute obedience to the sect leader, the prophet, is expected. Surely that many have not started to sing like canaries should be of little surprise to anyone with a modicum of common sense.
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| Apr 13, 2008 @ 12:05 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,961
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East...read my post on April 11, @ 9:02. It would have saved you a lot of typing.
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| Apr 13, 2008 @ 1:17 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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SensualGemini
Posts: 7,411
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Igloo: Attorney for Polygamist Leader Says Tip That Led to Ranch Raid May Have Been Hoax
...That is the common census which includes the local Baptist Church as a "fishing expedition" and hardly a reason to remove hundreds of children to foster care and basically incarcerate hundreds of young women, that are all supposed to be the victims.
...The phone company knows if there was a call, the time, where it came from and the first thing someone should be getting records from.
Bandt: Quoted from above article.
...That was in Arizona and not this one in Texas.
...Flora Jessop has been a crusader for many years against the FLDS. From my above quote, she was involved prior with the "Fawn" girls and for some reason, was ordered by the state to have no further contact with them and "apparently," fearing they would be returned to their parents, they subsequently ran away from the state as well.
...It does seem a little odd that her name would come up in this Texas issue.
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East: The members of the FLDS are isolated from society. Their every action and thought are controlled.
...Jeffs is old news and in prison. There may or may not be issues with the FLDS Church in Texas, but if you are going to make all members of FLDS guilty before any proof, then you better start rounding up all the Catholic priests as pedophiles.
...And if you are going to arrest every religion that isolates from society by choice, then the Amish, Mennonites, etc. better all get ready for this as well. But don't stop there, as to be fair, you then have to arrest every person that is reclusive.
...And if polygamy is your issue, then you can start arresting every Muslim in this country that practices same.
...And if you are really on a crusade, then round up the couple of hundred thousand registered sex offenders in the US and put their butts back in jail.
...The last time I looked and what I have three honorable discharges for, what my sons and every generation prior to the Revolutionary War has served for, is that our Constitution provides for the freedom of religion for all and not what the majority believe should be for all.
...But for certain, at this very moment, over 400 Mothers and children are separated and incarcerated in one way or another, while DFS does their fishing expedition in search of something to arrest someone at the Texas FLDS church for... and all from an alleged "whispered" telephone call, which would be one "victim" to find and identify.
..."to anyone with a modicum of common sense." if DFS had anything, any proof whatever, they would have arrested the perpetrators and not the victims.
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Angel: East...read my post on April 11, @ 9:02. It would have saved you a lot of typing.
... ...... 
=================
...This is so far a "witch hunt," that society is condoning for all the wrong reasons.
...DFS had better hope they come up with some "confessions" from an otherwise pacifistic group of incarcerated, separated Mothers and children, that by any standards, are at least being put through emotional abuse and trauma; torture by most standards, to obtain future confessions based on a "whispered" phone call, that if they had the proof, could show it came from the FLDS church itself.
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| Apr 13, 2008 @ 2:08 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,961
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Ran across this on religious tolerance site; some information is old, but worth the read.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/flds.htm
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| Apr 13, 2008 @ 3:16 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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SensualGemini
Posts: 7,411
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Angel: Ran across this on religious tolerance site; some information is old, but worth the read.
...Angel, I don't really want to get into a religious banter, but most all religions have the fundamental control of their members by the instilled belief of the hereafter.
...If nobody thought or believed there was going to be a heaven, or something far worse in the other direction, religion would lose a tremendous amount of control around the world.
...For one, all jihadist activity would cease today and for thousands of years, millions of lives would not have been lost in the name of.
...Regardless, the law is not the moral police, yet it would appear that the law in Texas is comprised of politicians, religion, personal beliefs, etc., who are all playing an important role in being the moral police without any facts; they are fishing for some.
...The "locals," predominately Baptist, have been upset ever since they found out the FLDS Church bought the land.
...This "crowd mindset" is a dangerous entity that does not always discern what is legal and what is not. And if not legal, it will have to be fought for years in court as an injustice on a Federal level, as the local courts would be biased at best. But, most pacifistic people, most that retain reclusive from society as a way of life, are not going to litigate anyone.
...One can justify the means by the end... if they do find someone guilty.
...But, until based on a "whispered" phone call that so far, is not traced back to where they say it originated, you are then forced to vacate your home and community, your children are separated from you and hundreds of other Mothers and put into foster care and then you are threatened to either cooperate, or never see your children again and possibly face further incarceration, it is insisted that there is a confusion by society, by the moral police of who the victims are.
...Maybe I am wrong in my thoughts, but I am attempting to empathize how these women and kids are feeling right now. 
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| Apr 13, 2008 @ 3:53 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,278
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Aside from the allegations of documented "child abuse" (underage/forced "marriage"), this particular case's "collateral focus" bothers me, too...
...But, until based on a "whispered" phone call that so far, is not traced back to where they say it originated, you are then forced to vacate your home and community, your children are separated from you and hundreds of other Mothers and put into foster care and then you are threatened to either cooperate, or never see your children again and possibly face further incarceration, it is insisted that there is a confusion by society, by the moral police of who the victims are.
The original "alleged perp" wasn't even with this group according to his probation officer -- and the trauma of being rounded up and forced into a totally alien and extremely stressful situation has got to create more major long-term effects on these children and mothers than we can even imagine...the way it's being handled ("investigated"  ) is repugnant, to me. (They're now trying to drum up 400+ lawyers to represent each of the 400+ children in the courts -- egads, there will be 100's of different or conflicting outcomes based on the effectivness or wily-ness of each lawyer!  )
The "child abuse" issue is horrific enough , but not ALL of the members could have participated in that. Then again, I guess I've tried to imagine living in their "non-traditional" closed society and can see their side of their way of life...which is why it's hard for me to condemn them all outright by making judgment based on MY standards and "traditions".
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| Apr 13, 2008 @ 3:56 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret...
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,278
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Angel said:
Especially if they are African-American
Exactly what does this mean? And was it necessary? 
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| Apr 13, 2008 @ 4:19 AM |
The Southwest's Dirty Little Secret... |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,961
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Yes it was to a valid point. Warren Jeffs was totally predjudist of African-Americans. This list below of his stupid statements were published by the SPLC (Southern Poverty Law Center) in Alabama that tracks white hate groups:
The black race is the people through which the devil has always been able to bring evil unto the earth.
Cain was cursed with a black skin and he is the father of the Negro people. He has great power, can appear and disappear. He is used by the devil, as a mortal man, to do great evils.
Today you can see a black man with a white woman, et cetera. A great evil has happened on this land because the devil knows that if all the people have Negro blood, there will be nobody worthy to have the priesthood.
If you marry a person who has connections with a Negro, you would become cursed.
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