| Apr 29 @ 1:13 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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lj450
Posts: 8,391
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Heres my theory.
I think our Democratic controlled congress is delaying any effort to revive our struggling economy until they can get a Democratic President. They think the average American will be so foolish as to think that the new President waved the magical Presidential wand (that only Democrats can hold) to help our economy, where the previous, unworthy, President was unable.
What a bunch of self serving pole-smokers.
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| Apr 29 @ 1:26 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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Silvertongue62
Posts: 6,932
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they're not thwarting any efforts of revitizing the economy. The economy was supposed to be revitalized when the interest rates were cut by the feds the first second and third time. Of course they only made it worse because as interest rates were forced down the american dollar and it just got cheaper and cheaper. Which in turn made everything more expensive. Oil isnt any more expensive, the american dollar has just gotten weaker. And it will continue to do so everytime they do something stupid instead of facing the fact that we cant afford this war.
You know I have to refrain from posting in here from time to time. Sometimes it can get a little too racey in here. Tempers will flair and before you know it, things get out of hand. today I almost did something stupid to prove a point and the end result is worth absolutely nothing. to whom much is given much is expected.
BTW - LJ - thanks for keeping a good spin on things yesterday. You're ok in my book!
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| Apr 29 @ 1:47 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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lj450
Posts: 8,391
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I think we are alot alike Silver.
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| Apr 29 @ 2:09 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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eastham
Posts: 6,306
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I think our Democratic controlled congress is delaying any effort to revive our struggling economy until they can get a Democratic President
What delay? The Congress passed an economic stimulus package, which the President signed. With regard to the economy, this Congress has not baulked on any request from the Administration. Indeed, it has been the President who has refused to see reality and acknowledge this economy is in recession.
Throughtout the over 7 years the Bush Administration has been in office, job creation has been weak. Furthermore, those jobs created were often not good, full-time jobs with benefits, but part-time jobs.
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| Apr 29 @ 2:40 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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Gman762
Posts: 3,291
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it has been the President who has refused to see reality and acknowledge this economy is in recession.
You really don't know what the true indicators of a recession are by definition I take it?
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| Apr 29 @ 5:18 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,066
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I suggest that we all help Cindy Sheehan defeat Nancy Pelosi for Congress. That would be a real nice start.
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| Apr 29 @ 7:55 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,776
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they're not thwarting any efforts of revitizing the economy.
I agree. Yes, some of the policies that they wish to pass, will crater the economy, if they are put in place (i.e., like allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire), but I can't name a single bill that has been put in place since they took control of congress that has either hurt the economy or that has postponed economic recovery.
The economy was supposed to be revitalized when the interest rates were cut by the feds the first second and third time. Of course they only made it worse because as interest rates were forced down the american dollar and it just got cheaper and cheaper. Which in turn made everything more expensive. Oil isnt any more expensive, the american dollar has just gotten weaker.
Cuts by the fed do not cause the economy to turn on a dime. It takes several months for them to work their way through the system. Since the fed began this cycle of rate cuts, LIBOR has fallen over 200 basis points, which will result in lower resets on home mortgages or many other lending rates. Lower interest rates, mean more money to spend on other goods and services and lower costs for the government to borrow money.
Yes, by lowering interest rates, the dollar has further weakened, but there are positive results from this, as it makes goods manufactured in the USA cheaper abroad. Exports are increasing, helping keep our job markets afloat. Just look at companies like Cat, Boeing, Deere.... They are thriving in large part due to the weakness of the dollar. Even Ford turned a profit in the last quarter, due in large part to weakness in the dollar.
Also, a weak dollar does not make everything more expensive, as it has little effect on domestic prices. Conversely, a weak dollar does cause the prices of imported goods (like oil) to be higher, but the entire increase in oil prices does not track with weakness in the dollar. In January 2003, a euro was worth $1.0501, while now it is worth $1.5368, an increase of $0.4867 or 46.35%. Since that time, the price of oil has increased from $25 to $118, an increase of 372%!
Source
Since the fed cut rates in September 2007, the value of the dollar has fallen. On September 17, 2007(the day before the first rate cut) a euro was worth $1.388. So, it's value has declined by $0.1488 or 10.72%. Since that time, the price of oil has increased from $79.10 to roughly $118 now or 49.18%. So, while the loss in value of the dollar does play a part in the increase in the price of oil, it is only a part.
Oil Price History
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| Apr 29 @ 8:40 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,505
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like allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire
I kind of like the Bush tax cuts. I just think they need to be skewed more towards the lower end of the scale.
I recommend either increasing the width of the lower income brackets, adding intermediate income brackets, or reducing the tax rates on the lower income brackets. Even a combination of these (i.e. increasing the width of the lower income brackets, add a few extra low-end brackets, and reduce the rates by a few percentage points).
That way, the majority of the benefit accrues to the people who are most in need of it: the people who are struggling against a decreasing standard of living.
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| Apr 30 @ 1:25 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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Gman762
Posts: 3,291
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I kind of like the Bush tax cuts. I just think they need to be skewed more towards the lower end of the scale.
You really don't know what tax cuts the lower to middle income wage earners received on a percentage basis compared to the upper wage earners...hmmm.
Or do you like to follow the Dhimmi mantra of taxing the rich and buying the votes of the poor with it? Your statement sure as hell sounds like that is your objective...
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| Apr 30 @ 1:44 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,776
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I kind of like the Bush tax cuts. I just think they need to be skewed more towards the lower end of the scale.
I recommend either increasing the width of the lower income brackets, adding intermediate income brackets, or reducing the tax rates on the lower income brackets. Even a combination of these (i.e. increasing the width of the lower income brackets, add a few extra low-end brackets, and reduce the rates by a few percentage points).
That way, the majority of the benefit accrues to the people who are most in need of it: the people who are struggling against a decreasing standard of living.
First of all, the last thing we need is more tax brackets. We have 6 already. Now, further increasing the width of those tax brackets, I think is a good idea. Currently, the first $8,025 of taxable income is taxed at 10%. (Prior to the Bush tax cut, it was taxed at 15%.) The bracket could be expanded and / or the tax rate could be further decreased. The second tax bracket 15% is for taxable income between $8,026 and $32,550. That bracket could be further expanded as well. (In 2000, the 15% tax bracket was for the first $26,250 of taxable income.)
You really don't know what tax cuts the lower to middle income wage earners received on a percentage basis compared to the upper wage earners...hmmm.
Not many people do, so let me show you the math.
The falacy of the left on the Bush tax cuts, is that they only benefit the rich. While it sounds good in a sound bite, it is just another example of the big lie. It simply is not true. In 2000, if you were single and had a taxable income of $10,000 you paid $1,500 in federal income tax. In 2008 you would pay $1,099, a reduction of $401 or 26.73%. If your taxable income was $50,000 in 2000 you paid $10,588, while in 2008 you pay $8,844, a reduction of $1,744 or 16.47%. By the way, if your taxable income in 2000 was $100,000,000 then your tax burden was $39,577,670, while in 2008 it would be $34,978,597, a reduction of $4,599,073 or 11.62%.
The facts are that if these tax cuts are allowed to expire, then everyone who pays federal income taxes, is going to have a tax increase and that those at the lowest end of the income spectrum are going to have the greatest increase on a percentage basis. The facts are that if you look at the savings on a percentage basis, then those at the lower end of the tax structure, got a larger reduction in federal income tax, than did those who are wealthy. Of course, why let facts get in the way of rhetoric.
You can play with the numbers, but the fact is, if you pay federal income tax, then you got a tax cut from W. If you want to see the impact of a specific income level and tax rates, check out the following link, which is what I used in the above calculations.
Source
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| Apr 30 @ 2:10 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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Silvertongue62
Posts: 6,932
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Cuts by the fed do not cause the economy to turn on a dime. It takes several months for them to work their way through the system. Since the fed began this cycle of rate cuts, LIBOR has fallen over 200 basis points, which will result in lower resets on home mortgages or many other lending rates. Lower interest rates, mean more money to spend on other goods and services and lower costs for the government to borrow money.
I'll try this again. When the feds cut interest rates, the american dollar goes down. this make everything more expensive. The first indicators are comodities. oil, silver, gold, wheat corn ect......
Nothing happens immediately with our government.
Look at New Orleans.
BTW the first tax cuts took place months ago.
actually nevermind!
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| Apr 30 @ 2:41 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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Gman762
Posts: 3,291
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Say_Yes,
The big Dhimmi lie about the Bush tax cut??
No sheeite...
Even though you have skillfully laid out the truth of the matter, certain communists and socialist dems here will say that the rich are still far too rich. They want to buy more votes using the rich man's money.
The common man is just too stupid to realize that the Dhimmi's just bent them over for a big, dry rump-hump when they killed the Bush tax cuts. That IS a tax increase...
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| Apr 30 @ 2:50 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,776
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I'll try this again. When the feds cut interest rates, the american dollar goes down. this make everything more expensive. The first indicators are comodities. oil, silver, gold, wheat corn ect
Actually, you are wrong. While lower interest rates do cause the dollar to be worth less on the international market, they do not cause all prices to increase. Goods that are imported from abroad, will cost more in the USA, when the dollar is weak. By the same token, goods that are produced within the USA and that are sold abroad are less expensive, thus increasing exports and increasing jobs.
Also, just as oil, wheat and corn are commodities, so too is money. By lowering interest rates, the cost of money is reduced in the market place. As interest rates fall, money becomes cheaper to borrow, thus spurring growth. This helps not only business, but the deficit, as the government sells bonds at lower interest rates, thus lowering the payment on that debt.
Mortgage payments are largely tied to LIBOR, (the London Interbank Bank Offer Rate). Prior to the rate cuts in September, the 1 year LIBOR rate was at 5.275%. Today it is at 2.48625%. Now your typical ARM is tied to LIBOR, with a spread 200 or so basis points. That means that an adjustable rate mortgage reset at LIBOR +200 has fallen from 7.275% in September to 4.48625% today. On a home mortgage of $100,000 that means instead of a monthly loan payment of $683.87 (principal & interest, 30 years), the payment is $505.87. If you want to stop the housing collapse, then lowering the cost of money to make refinancing more affordable is one of the easiest and best ways to do so, without a federal bailout. The drop in LIBOR certainly facilitates that.
Export driven economies, (like China) maintain a weak currency, to make their goods less expensive abroad, as a stimulus to growth. As the dollar weakens, goods produced in the USA become cheaper on the world market and exports increase. At the same time, the cost of imported goods increases. While this can be inflationary, it also makes domestic production, more feasible economically. After all, if it cost more to buy a car made in Japan, then perhaps we might be more likely to buy one made in Detroit instead.
So, lowering the fed funds rate and a weak dollar, does not drive up the price of everything. It makes some things more expensive and others less so.
Source
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| Apr 30 @ 3:39 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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IMO letting the Bush tax cut expire in 2011 is not in anyones best interest... and if we think the economy is bad now just wait...
also, IMO Greenspan was a wizard at keeping the economy in tack and i'm just not sure that Bernanke has the tenacity that Greenspan did .... it will be interesting to see how he handles it and if he gets anxious and jumps too soon...
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| Apr 30 @ 8:02 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,505
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We've gone through this before. I've posted run the statistics, I've analyzed the percentages, and I've posted all the results. Do we REALLY have to go through this again (and again and again and again...)?
An analysis of the Bush tax cuts
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| Apr 30 @ 9:36 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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Silvertongue62
Posts: 6,932
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Actually, you are wrong.
Ok I am going to let you be the expert here.
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| Apr 30 @ 10:18 AM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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Gman762
Posts: 3,291
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Yes, we have gone over this before. It appears that some here are using very misleading charts to get the Dhimmi point of view accross...
Here are the only charts that matter...how much will YOU pay with or without the Bush tax cuts. Everything else is meaningless bovine excrement.
US Tax Rates
Taxes 1999 versus 2008
In light of what transpired on 9/11, the tax cuts did more to revitalized the economy that any single thing. Yet, the Dhimmi's whined a blue streak when Bush pushed it through and now they have killed the one thing that made the economy grow. Not only did they kill what made the economy grow, THEY INSTANTLY INCREASED EVERYONE'S TAXES!!!
And the Dhimmi's here think killing the tax cut was the greatest thing since sliced bread....sounds to me like they just like their government taking them up the stink star if it "gets back at the rich", LOL.
Un-be-liev-able...
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| Apr 30 @ 12:33 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 4,071
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In light of what transpired on 9/11, the tax cuts did more to revitalized the economy that any single thing. Yet, the Dhimmi's whined a blue streak when Bush pushed it through and now they have killed the one thing that made the economy grow. Not only did they kill what made the economy grow, THEY INSTANTLY INCREASED EVERYONE'S TAXES!!!
Another stupid ranting conservative. Where did the Democratic Congress raise everyone's taxes, immediately or otherwise? You talk like what they are proposing has already been voted on, vetoed and the veto overridden, when actually they haven't changed anything yet except to get through a bill increasing the minimum wage. Discussing how the actual numbers work, and what the actual consequences of the tax cuts have been, and whether or not the outcomes are good or bad, is a valid discussion. But falsely claiming the Democrats have done something they haven't (lying, in other words) just destroys your credibility.
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| Apr 30 @ 12:50 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery?
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Silvertongue62
Posts: 6,932
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here ya go
Are these people wrong too?
[Edited on 4/30/2008 1:04 PM]
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| Apr 30 @ 1:21 PM |
Democratic Congress Preventing Economic Recovery? |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 4,987
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This posting is nothing but, pure fabrication! Put out by someone that does not know that "A LOT" is two words! And while he blows his smoke one way we are to look another while he trolls by spewing his crapola! 
Jeeeeessssshhhhhh.....get a life, fellah!
lj450....said this...."I think we are "alot" alike Silver.".....!!
Quotation marks around "alot" are mine to show his misspelling!!
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