| May 5 @ 1:07 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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Bj864
Posts: 3,118
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I thought it would be interesting to see how people feel about this.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080505/ap_on_he_me/pandemic_rationing_care_3
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| May 5 @ 3:39 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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The headline to this article is very misleading -- and it extends to this thread. The article is really about who will be treated and who will be left untreated in the event of limited resources. Treatment may have little or nothing to do with life or death or may actually work inversely to expectations.
Actually, except for those with severe trauma, which could include critical injuries from car crashes and shootings, the remaining groups of people might be better off out of the care of our medical system.
Flu shots btw are full of mercury and other toxins and pathogens which have no business being injected into our blood. It is much better to find all ways possible to boost the immune system constantly over a lifetime. Best to start on that immediately for any that have been ignoring it.
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| May 5 @ 3:42 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,272
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How do I feel about this? I think it is very scary and very Sci-Fi. I read too many Sci-Fi books and could see this happening I guess.
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| May 5 @ 3:44 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 8,063
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unfortunately...it makes sense... we went through something like this during
 the fallout shelter days...nothing new here...
at least they left off the list...... do they have insurance to pay us... or not... 
wonder if ....He..... would be treated???? 
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| May 5 @ 4:00 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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SyndilLucian
Posts: 1,046
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If I read the article correctly, no he would not. But I have a feeling some of those they choose not to treat may be the ones still left standing at the end of the day.
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| May 5 @ 4:05 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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If we as a nation really want to gear up to meet the demands of a pandemic or widespread crisis, let's take childbirth out of hospitals and return it to the natural process it is. That would free up a lot of docs and hospital space for emergency care.
Plan on cutting all elective surgery in a pandemic or crisis. Give training to volunteers on making people comfortable and administering fluids. That is the best treatment for flu anyway. Cutting care to trauma victims seems like cutting doctors out of the place where they are truly most needed and effective.
I think the article is a ridiculous piece of trash designed to raise fear and designed to make people feel helpless. Hogwash!!!!
some of those they choose not to treat may be the ones still left standing at the end of the day.
My sentiments exactly!
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| May 5 @ 4:41 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 8,063
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I think the article is a ridiculous piece of trash designed to raise fear and designed to make people feel helpless.
I disagree..my thought are that the medical profession will be under a terrible psychological strain if a flu pandemic hits.. and this article is for them.. so that they will be ready for the reality of.. people will be dying.. no matter what they try to do.. so all they can really do is the best they can with what they have available..
just a fact.. if 25 percent of the US population dies... that equals 75 million people ( based on 300 million )
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| May 5 @ 4:51 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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eastham
Posts: 6,341
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For those of you (and that might be everyone else, but me) who have never worked in a cemetery, cemetery's open up sections for burial and not the cemetery as a whole. In 1917, the cemetery opened up two new plots, Canna and Cosmos, and then the Spanish flu epidemic hit. Both plots, which would have normally been open for sale for years, were sold out in a matter of weeks. The average life expectancy for the City of New York declined by more than a decade.
Even with widespread vaccination, the flu or its co-infections kill every year. This year, the CDC reported deaths in 39 states. Many of these deaths are children.
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| May 5 @ 5:57 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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alivenwell351
Posts: 1,514
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I don't know...I made through the Hong Cong flu epidemic of '69 alive...though there were a couple of days dying would have been a welcome relief...absolutely the sickest I've ever been...and I was a seriously healthy pup back then...
Then in I think '75 I had the one and only flu shot I ever got and was sick pretty much the whole Winter...never got another one and since then I hardly ever get sick...
I agree wholeheartedly with Lacy...natural is the only way...
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| May 6 @ 6:11 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,118
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I do not think it should be up to the government, who should be treated and who should not be. I think it should be as always, the worst emergency taken first.
I guarantee, if it is a high ranking government official, they will be treated no matter what their age is.
I think the government should stay OUT of it, except for quaranteens, in needed.
Myself, I would not choose to go to the emergency room or the doctor, but I think the elderly or the disabled that want treatment should not be ignored.
I thought we had progressed above the animals, where survival of the fittest rules.
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| May 6 @ 9:21 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,408
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Lacy said:
I think the article is a ridiculous piece of trash designed to raise fear and designed to make people feel helpless. Hogwash!!!!
And as a medical professional who would be affective if this were come to pass, I heartily agree. It's garbage like this that make my job twice as hard as it should be.
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| May 6 @ 11:41 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 8,063
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.......
http://www.pandemicflu.gov/general/index.htmlWhat would be the Impact of a Pandemic? A pandemic may come and go in waves, each of which can last for six to eight weeks. An especially severe influenza pandemic could lead to high levels of illness, death, social disruption, and economic loss. Everyday life would be disrupted because so many people in so many places become seriously ill at the same time. Impacts can range from school and business closings to the interruption of basic services such as public transportation and food delivery. Pandemics Death Toll Since 1900 1918-1919 U.S.... 675,000+ Worldwide... 50,000,000+ This as per the CDC. 1957-1958 U.S.... 70,000+ Worldwide... 1-2,000,000 1968-1969 U.S.. 34,000+ Worldwide... 700,000+ A substantial percentage of the world's population will require some form of medical care. Health care facilities can be overwhelmed, creating a shortage of hospital staff, beds, ventilators and other supplies. Surge capacity at non-traditional sites such as schools may need to be created to cope with demand. The need for vaccine is likely to outstrip supply and the supply of antiviral drugs is also likely to be inadequate early in a pandemic. Difficult decisions will need to be made regarding who gets antiviral drugs and vaccines. Death rates are determined by four factors: the number of people who become infected, the virulence of the virus, the underlying characteristics and vulnerability of affected populations and the availability and effectiveness of preventive measures.
and...
Health professionals are concerned that the continued spread of a highly pathogenic avian H5N1 virus across eastern Asia and other countries represents a significant threat to human health. The H5N1 virus has raised concerns about a potential human pandemic because:
It is especially virulent
It is being spread by migratory birds
It can be transmitted from birds to mammals and in some limited circumstances to humans, and
Like other influenza viruses, it continues to evolve.
Since 2003, a growing number of human H5N1 cases have been reported in Asia, Europe, and Africa. More than half of the people infected with the H5N1 virus have died. Most of these cases are all believed to have been caused by exposure to infected poultry. There has been no sustained human-to-human transmission of the disease, but the concern is that H5N1 will evolve into a virus capable of human-to-human transmission.
mom.. you are a nice person... 
...but ..maybe you should rethink your post??
Lacy said: I think the article is a ridiculous piece of trash designed to raise fear and designed to make people feel helpless. Hogwash!!!! And as a medical professional who would be affective if this were come to pass, I heartily agree. It's garbage like this that make my job twice as hard as it should be. .
how does that article make your job harder?? did it impact you in any way today??...will it tomorrow??
and remember that... the people who have contracted this "flu" had all the " health care treatment " that is known, ... trying to save them...., and still over half died...( that is over 50 percent..) you do the math...
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| May 7 @ 12:06 AM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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lj450
Posts: 8,399
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The govt will secretly kill everyone who receives a flu vaccine and then the strongest of the rest will survive.
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| May 7 @ 12:19 AM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 4,304
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Last year, the number of human cases of avian flu dropped rather than rose for the first time -- from a paltry 115 in 2006 to an even more insignificant 86 in 2007. Frightening headlines warning of a pandemic that could kill 150 million people have all but vanished. Most of the people who acquire the infection were, and still are, bird handlers in continuous contact with sick birds. How did anyone in their right mind envision similar circumstances in the United States? Research like this would typically be thrown in the trash if it did not strongly support some ulterior purpose. What might that purpose have been? Try greed. At $100 per dose, the U.S. used taxpayers' dollars to purchase some 20 million doses of the highly questionable Tamiflu, lining the pockets of then Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld who was president of Gilead Sciences when they created the drug. Interestingly, the use of Tamiflu, and the vaccinating of poultry may actually cause the H5N1virus to mutate into more dangerous and potent viral strains. Since the purported "outbreak" of bird flu, the Tamiflu vaccine has also been linked to the deaths of 12 Japanese children, some of which suddenly jumped out of buildings. Neuropsychiatric incidents in children, including seizures, loss of consciousness, and delirium were linked to the vaccine. ~ Dr. Mercola 2/14/08 |
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| May 7 @ 1:01 AM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 8,063
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gee LJ..I did not know that... do you have a link??
and..Lacy..I am in complete agreement with you regarding Tamiflu, 
and I feel that a flu pandemic probably will never happen in my lifetime ...but...if it does...then what?
btw.. from the link..
Flu Terms Defined
Seasonal (or common) flu is a respiratory illness that can be transmitted person to person. Most people have some immunity, and a vaccine is available.
Avian (or bird) flu (AI) is caused by influenza viruses that occur naturally among wild birds. Low pathogenic AI is common in birds and causes few problems. Highly pathogenic H5N1 is deadly to domestic fowl, can be transmitted from birds to humans, and is deadly to humans. There is virtually no human immunity and human vaccine availability is very limited.
Pandemic flu is virulent human flu that causes a global outbreak, or pandemic, of serious illness. Because there is little natural immunity, the disease can spread easily from person to person. Currently, there is no pandemic flu.
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| May 7 @ 1:36 AM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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the article i read the other day on this said that there was always a directive like this one just not as detailed as the last one written...IMO there has to be something in place just in case.... and of course it would be against everything you think you would stand for until you were faced with the true epidemic you have not a clue how you would behave or think… people do crazy things when face with life and death possibility of their love ones or themselves….don’t believe it look back in history you'll see that plague is notorious and there were many... a good one to start with is the black plague (bubonic) ......
IMO if such an epidemic hits it would not matter your health...
[Edited on 5/7/2008 1:42 AM]
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| May 7 @ 6:28 AM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,408
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Gallows said:
how does that article make your job harder?? did it impact you in any way today??...will it tomorrow??
and remember that... the people who have contracted this "flu" had all the " health care treatment " that is known, ... trying to save them...., and still over half died...( that is over 50 percent..) you do the math...
I don't have time to address this right now as I have sick people to take care of, but read what I wrote and what Lacy wrote and think about it.
It is harder to care for someone in fear that it is one that trusts.
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| May 7 @ 8:32 AM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 8,063
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I really do hope that when you have the time to address this.. you will.. and not just let it drop... as saying for me to think about it is a cop out .... I have no idea what you think..
....but remember this fact..... you have never treated anyone for pandemic flu
(the topic of the article and this thread...).. as the last one was... in 1968-1969
U.S.. 34,000+
... you are 50 years old... so.....
(psst... you were 10 years old.. I was 15.. .)
............
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| May 7 @ 8:58 AM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic
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lj450
Posts: 8,399
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gee LJ..I did not know that... do you have a link??
I heard it in church the other day.
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| May 7 @ 1:53 PM |
Who will live and who will die in a flu pandemic |
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 9,606
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I know off topic but Im wondering something. The last time I ever got a flu pump was when I was like 12. Im 34. So 20 odd years. Out of them 20 odd years I have caught a flu like 4 times. Think some are just immune to them? So Ill pass my shot over to someone else.
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