"It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

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"It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

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Jul 1 @ 10:33 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

onoudn

Posts: 4,266 Well for one thing this thread is definetly not purely a AA basher thread. For another it's not really all that much about me. It's pretty self-explanatory I think. It's about religious zealots who have hijacked our constitution and , yes, program like the 12-step recovery program as a mean to advance a right-wing Christian conservative agenda. Really simple. I'm not really pissed although I do resent having to be subjected to religious zealots preaching to me on the public dollar every time I go into a government building.

You just kind of went off on some kind of strange direction Nah, not sure what that's all about but your comments aren't me at all.

[Edited on 7/1/2008 10:41 PM]

Jul 1 @ 10:37 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

onoudn

Posts: 4,266 Oh and BTW if I choose to have a drink, I do. I'm not in recovery and the 12-steps don't work for the majority of people that try it. If you don't like the vids....well....hate to burst your bubble here but I really could give a rats ass.

Jul 1 @ 10:52 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

nah12

Posts: 3,973
really could give a rats ass
and you think i do.....

hey it was your rant not mine remember

Jul 1 @ 10:55 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

onoudn

Posts: 4,266 I prefer to call it civil dissent. But rant works in a crunch.

Jul 4 @ 3:02 AM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

bardnsage

Posts: 419 Welcome to America. As you enter, remember, you do not have a right - not to be offended. Also, remember, the separation of church and state was directed to prevent the government from telling people how to worship,,,,not to insulate them from all worship. Constantly attacking the religious practices of others will weaken your power. And pulling down all of the icons of the country, will only serve to make you feel a personal rush, as a victor, not as a loving being in tune with the world around you.

This seems to be a common thread in your blogs. And you suffer for it. You should remember that suffering exists, and it arises from our attachment to desires. You desire is to have our government and the environment around you free from any mention of Christianity, or religion. You can cease your suffering by ceasing your attachment to this desire.

If you focus on the anatta, and avoid the hindrances of - aversion and ill will, restlessness and worry, and skeptical doubt, you may find your journey on a noble path more rewarding, and the transition to more peaceful state possible.

By constantly attacking these perceived enemies of yours, you cast a black cloud over the path. Your actions are the exact example referenced in the Kodhana Sutta. And you suffer for it.

Even a liberal (not political liberal, the other kind) paraphrasing of the Ambalatthikarahulovada Sutta, shows that

When you are considering doing something, reflect on it: Is this something which will cause harm to myself or others? If so, stop yourself from doing it. If not, if it leads to happy consequences, you may feel free to do it. While you are doing something, reflect on it: Is this act harming anyone? If so, stop. If not, go ahead. After you have done something, reflect on what you have done. If it resulted in harm to yourself or others, confess it to your teacher or companions, and resolve to restrain yourself in the future. If the act had happy consequences, then be joyful.

Forcing others to cast away their icons, and to attack their religion, and it's role in government, is to challenge to principles set forth in our country's founding documents, and many people are hurt or offended by that. Even though they have no claim to be free from offense or hurt, you should not be the instrument of that hurt.

Mara has you focused on your perceived causes of your suffering, the government and Christians. These are external forces, used by Mara as the object of your obsession, hence suffering.

Yet, the Dharma state reveals that the relief of all suffering comes from within. When you choose to not struggle against the external forces, and accept the world around you, you will be free from your suffering.

Jul 4 @ 6:06 AM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

SensualGemini

Posts: 3,514
bard: When you are considering doing something, reflect on it: Is this something which will cause harm to myself or others? If so, stop yourself from doing it. If not, if it leads to happy consequences, you may feel free to do it. While you are doing something, reflect on it: Is this act harming anyone? If so, stop. If not, go ahead. After you have done something, reflect on what you have done. If it resulted in harm to yourself or others, confess it to your teacher or companions, and resolve to restrain yourself in the future. If the act had happy consequences, then be joyful.

...Yea, I think that is what O is talking about... sounds like a government employee that is stopping to ponder before, during and after a given project, while being "joyful" when the check arrives for doing nothing.

...Maybe it was good advice.

Jul 4 @ 1:12 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

Paralegal_at_Law

Posts: 5,068
It's about religious zealots who have hijacked our constitution

It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor. George Washington, signer of the U.S. Constitution and Commander in Chief of the American Revolution.

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbrideled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams, Signer of the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence.

And can the liberties of a nation bethought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson, Author and signer of the Declaration of Independence

I've lived, sir, a long time,and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: That God governs in the affairs of men. Benjamin Franklin Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

Providence has given to our people the choice of thier rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. United States Chief Justice John Jay, Co-Author of the Federalist Papers

Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of law which is Divine. . . far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. U.S. Supreme Court Justice James Wilson, signer of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution

One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . there never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundations. I berily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. US Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, Father of American Jurisprudence.

We are a Christian people. . . not because the law demands it, not to gain exclusive benefits, or toavoid legal disabilities, but from choice and education. US Senate Judiciary Committee Report. January 19, 1854

In this age there can be no substitute for Christianity. That was the religion of the Founders of the republic and they expected it ot remain the religion of their descendants. House Judiciary Committee Report, March 27, 1854

". . .this is a Christian nation." unanimous decision of the United States Supreme Court Declaring America a Christian Nation, Church of the Holy Trinity v. U.S. 1892

Behold, the Archeminent Pinnacle Precision Thinker, speaks.

Actually, it appears that it is the anti-religious zealots who have hijacked our Constitution.

. . As it is written, so shall it be done; as I have spoken, so mote it be!

[Edited on 7/4/2008 1:34 PM]

Jul 4 @ 1:20 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

SweetNapaGuy

Posts: 4,554 But which brand of Christianity, Para? Mainstream "Christian in the pews, average Joes everywhere else" Christians, mostly. Fundamentalist attempts to transform America into a theocratic nation is a recent phenomenon. Wistful desires to return to the halcyon days of purity and morality are just fantasies. This country has never been particularly rabid in its religion, up until the various periods of Great Awakening.

But it's so much easier to retcon history to suit your agenda, I guess.

Jul 4 @ 1:40 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

Paralegal_at_Law

Posts: 5,068
But which brand of Christianity, Para?

That would be the "Onward Christian Soldiers" one that sponsors a Crusade to issue a mallot and a host of sharpened stakes to each Inquisitor member of the Congregation for the Preservation of the Faith and the cardiac staking, or at the stake immolation, on sight of all domestic enemies reposing as a disloyal fifth column within our midst who are indeed a danger to the republic.

Anyone want to help set stakes in the ground or go gather tree limbs and kindling?

Jul 4 @ 1:45 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

SweetNapaGuy

Posts: 4,554 Sheesh. Is it a wonder that your cult got chased out of every civilized town? (Granted, it's more respectable and believable than the Scientologists, but only just barely...)

Jul 4 @ 2:25 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

Paralegal_at_Law

Posts: 5,068
Is it a wonder that your cult got chased out of every civilized town?

Thats why we have our own state now.

Jul 4 @ 5:04 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

SweetNapaGuy

Posts: 4,554
Thats why we have our own state now.

Ah, but little by little, we're making it normal. Down to only 62% LDS, from what I hear. How long until saner churches have taken over the majority position? (Hint: around 2030)

Seems the only way for the LDS to keep their majority position is to completely tank their economy. Bad economy, and the immigrants will move to someplace else. Good economy, and the LDS get pushed aside...

Jul 4 @ 7:49 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

Paralegal_at_Law

Posts: 5,068
Down to only 62% LDS, from what I hear.

Did you know that with the low level resident populations of Alaska, Montana, and Wyoming, that any organization that wanted to send 1,000,000 of their own pioneers to such a place would instantly be a domestic pressure group that would control 9 electoral college votes.

Jul 4 @ 7:57 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

SweetNapaGuy

Posts: 4,554
that any organization that wanted to send 1,000,000 of their own pioneers

Let's see. With moving costs, purchasing of housing (which would have to be constructed; there's NOT 1M available apartments in those areas), and so on, you're looking at a cost of some $25B. (Very rough estimate.)

Still, if you can find some group willing to front the money for that, go right ahead. Of course, it wouldn't be any mainstream Republican group (if those states already traditionally vote Republican, why bother?), but I'm sure there's plenty of other groups with tens of billions of dollars laying around, who want to get 1.7% of the electoral college.

Granted, they could probably just spend 0.5% of that money (say, to buy campaign ads for several elections) and ge the same influence, but why let little things like reality get in the way of your overblown proposals, right?

Jul 4 @ 8:28 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

Paralegal_at_Law

Posts: 5,068 Gee SweetNapaGuy, remember that high blood pressure can cause a cerebral aneurism, stroke, or heart attack.

Jul 4 @ 8:34 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

SweetNapaGuy

Posts: 4,554 And extreme obesity is currently seen as a high risk factor for Alzheimer's Disease. Your point being?

All I pointed out was that for less than one percent the cost, the people who would want to change the country's politics could get the same effect through advertising, without the need for disrupting the lives of 0.333% of the population.

Of course, that's assuming you could find 1M people willing to move from sunnier states to those frozen states...

Jul 4 @ 11:11 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

lefthandedluckie

Posts: 5,081 para.....those guys gathering that kindling are they the christians wearing those "pointy" hats? They burned a lot of Black christians....you know!

christians burning christians....now who woulda'thunk!

para....got that kindling remark here...."Anyone want to help set stakes in the ground or go gather tree limbs and kindling?"....!!

Jul 5 @ 5:54 AM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

Paralegal_at_Law

Posts: 5,068
those guys gathering that kindling are they the christians wearing those "pointy" hats?

I thought they were nudists.

Jul 5 @ 5:14 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

onoudn

Posts: 4,266
Bard said: Welcome to America. As you enter, remember, you do not have a right - not to be offended. Also, remember, the separation of church and state was directed to prevent the government from telling people how to worship,,,,not to insulate them from all worship. Constantly attacking the religious practices of others will weaken your power. And pulling down all of the icons of the country, will only serve to make you feel a personal rush, as a victor, not as a loving being in tune with the world around you.

I've considered this point. It's not " Buddhist" to complain about ones trying cirsumstances. It's my karma to keep running into these issues. I agree. However, Buddhism also teaches that we shouldn't ignore injustice. The answer would seem to be in finding a balance, ya know ? I've been looking into things like "radical acceptance" as of late. It's kind of like the Serenity Prayer of accepting things I can not change. Only both seem to imply that too many things just be accepted. You don't know if you can change something until you try. And sometimes it take a steady effort over years and years.

Jul 5 @ 9:59 PM "It's not religious it's spiritual" aka your rights are about to be violated

lefthandedluckie

Posts: 5,081 "Different Stokes For Different Folks"!

In some instances religious institutions do help people with addictions and other problems! But, they are not forced on anyone being helped by the government. Unless you agree to it.

I do agree...in some cases religion is the saving grace for some individuals. Facts are facts!

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