| Sep 29 @ 3:02 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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theblessedone
Posts: 172
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Imagine you're a current member of Congress, and the House has just defeated the $700 billion bailout package (ok, that part doesn't require imagination).
What are you going to do? What are you going to argue for in an amended bailout package? What steps do you advocate taking to stem the current financial hemorrhage?
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| Sep 29 @ 3:17 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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1st thing is somebody better stick a sock in Pelosi and Barney's mouths if you want to accomplish anything that is bipartisan .....
her little mouth pissed several off to change their votes right at the last minute ..... and she and Barney are now just adding fuel to the fire plain and simple ...... playing the political card how it is all the Repubs fault it failed ..... give me a freaking break how stupid do they think we are ......
remember 40% Dems said no alone with 2/3 of the Repubs ....
and they all said "we're afraid of losing our jobs" now is that not just a freaking joke coming from congressmen ..... well i say welcome to the real world @ssholes i hope they all are sent home .....
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| Sep 29 @ 3:27 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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theblessedone
Posts: 172
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I've never been one to mute my opinion, as a general rule...but given the current crisis and the potential impact around the world, Pelosi should have bitten her tongue off if need be, rather than to choose this particular day and that particular rant.
I've yet to read anything about Barney's oral dysentery, so I can't make an informed comment about him.
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| Sep 29 @ 3:29 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,081
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call me Mr. Meltdown Bush Administration
And the Dow is down 700 points! Thank you George! You are now letting, even the sheep, see you have no clue as to how to run this country....the proof is for everyone to see!  
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| Sep 29 @ 3:29 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,272
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Fire them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
I actually just heard it was voted down and the first thing I heard was how it was the republicans fault.
Hm,,,why blame one party?????????
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| Sep 29 @ 3:30 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,333
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her little mouth pissed several off to change their votes right at the last minute
I agree that it was stupid, but we've had plenty of stupid to go around anyway. Forty percent of democrats also voted against it, it wasn't exactly a slim margin.
and they all said "we're afraid of losing our jobs" now is that not just a freaking joke coming from congressmen ..... well i say welcome to the real world @ssholes i hope they all are sent home .....
 
First thing I'd do is try to wade through the 106 pages of the document, making a list of points (in English as opposed to legalese) as to what I think they mean, then get a lawyer to help me verify as to whether I understood it correctly or not.
Once I had it translated to English, I'd apportion dollars to the various points, to try to see exactly where our money's going.
Next I'd look for who's going to be accounting for this money, monitoring where it's going and how we expect to recoup it down the road. I'd find some of the best economists around (maybe John Paulson instead of Hank - he's been managing hedge funds betting against the housing market, making billions in the process...find some people who've been getting it right and ask them how to fix this.
[Edited on 9/29/2008 3:33 PM]
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| Sep 29 @ 3:32 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,056
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and it looks like Obama and McCain are still debating!  
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| Sep 29 @ 3:35 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,272
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I agree with Heaven. I would love to see exactly what was/is in it.
I also think more than one person should be in control of the money if it is given out.
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| Sep 29 @ 3:40 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,333
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I posted the link to the text of the bill in the Martial Law thread...all 106 pages of it. It provdes for a committee of five (originally the five were specified, including Sec. Paulson, but this text seems to have amended that to people chosen by the five officials originally named).
It's a bear to dig through.
[Edited on 9/29/2008 3:41 PM]
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| Sep 29 @ 3:41 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 5,081
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kattsmeow....posted this...."I also think more than one person should be in control of the money if it is given out. "..!!
WELL, looks like you "WOULD" have voted with Nancy Pelosi! That is exactly what she wanted, too!
Bush wanted just the boy/man, criminal in charge of his to handle the 700 billion! 
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| Sep 29 @ 3:42 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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CPUfan
Posts: 3,396
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  Nah, yes Katts wasn't it a two-party opposition?
Once I had it translated to English, I'd apportion dollars to the various points, to try to see exactly where our money's going. Heaven, that might be some expensive translation lol... I LOVE bills in English, just not the kind of bills that come through my door heh...
It's going to have to be a good revision to satisfy the dual opposition now... but as you point out Heaven, there were the makings of a rescue package for homeowners! 
That is an Atlantic problem now, UK, Denmark, everywhere there's negative equity. Due to some wild speculation and frivolous investment over too long a period.
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| Sep 29 @ 3:47 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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graywolf
Posts: 40,100
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It is a toughy read as you say Katt and the translation is even tougher.  making some headway but it is slow going.
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| Sep 29 @ 3:47 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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redhairNfreckles
Posts: 2,822
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What a disappointment to have our leaders put their political party affliation ahead of what is best for the people of America, but this is nothing new. Maybe both sides have legitmate arguments, and I'm sure they do, but what good does finger-pointing do? Most of us are on the verge of going to our banks and withdrawing all money, I know I am, but I have a gut feeling it is best to just chill for a while longer. I might be totally wrong, but if I am, then I won't be the only one to go down with the ship, although that is little comfort.
I do NOT want this to sound racist, but why does the Jewish holiday have anything to do with this vote? If they have to work thru their holiday to arrive at another plan, then so what? I worked almost every holiday whether I wanted to or not! Guess what, it didn't kill me either.
[Edited on 9/29/2008 4:13 PM]
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| Sep 29 @ 3:51 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,056
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What a disappoint to have our leaders to put their political party affliation ahead of what is best for the people of America, but this is nothing new.
McCain said today..."do you want Obama or do you want Country First!"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_el_pr/mccain;_ylt=As04UUrbhDzjzyYEJzdeOBJh24cA
I tell ya! They are at it neck and neck!
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| Sep 29 @ 3:53 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,333
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Jerks, both of them for doing that.
(e) PREVENTING UNJUST ENRICHMENT.—In making
2 purchases under the authority of this Act, the Secretary
3 shall take such steps as may be necessary to prevent un4
just enrichment of financial institutions participating in
5 a program established under this section, including by pre6
venting the resale of a troubled asset to the Secretary at
7 a higher price than what the seller paid to purchase the
8 asset. This subsection does not apply to troubled assets
9 acquired in a merger or acquisition, or a purchase of as10
sets from a financial institution in conservatorship or re11
ceivership, or that has initiated bankruptcy proceedings
12 under title 11, United States Code.
Anybody here have an idea on whether this would mean that Citigroup could sell off the bad Wachovia assets to 'us' at a higher price than they paid for them today?
Since it was an acquisition, that would seem to exempt them from this clause.
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| Sep 29 @ 3:53 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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theblessedone
Posts: 172
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I read that Great Britain nationalized Bradford & Bingley today (mortgage lenders), so the crisis certainly extends beyond this country.
As Heaven mentioned, you would want to work with the best economists available. Certainly, most (if not all of them) are not employees of the US Government, but they should be viewed as a valuable resource in this situation.
Go back through voting records, and you'll find that members of both parties will vote for, or against, any particular legislation. Sometimes the vote breaks down close to party lines, sometimes not so much. If you were to average them all, it should be quite clear that this debaucle is 'bipartisan'...no one party gets all the credit for creating the mess, just as one party will not save us from disaster.
(edited to address Heaven)
As a Wachovia personal and business account holder, my understanding is that they may be able to sell the 'bad assets' for a higher price than what they paid for them. I was at the bank this morning, and people were there closing accounts.
[Edited on 9/29/2008 3:55 PM]
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| Sep 29 @ 3:54 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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graywolf
Posts: 40,100
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Heaven, from what I read last night that is exactly what it means. 
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| Sep 29 @ 3:55 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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CPUfan
Posts: 3,396
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I think quite a few might have found these parts objectionable: not negotiable, not subject to amendment or postponement !!!
(5) FLOOR CONSIDERATION.—
4 (A) IN GENERAL.—When the committee to
5 which a resolution described in paragraph (2) is
6 referred has reported, or has been deemed to be
7 discharged (under paragraph (4)) from further
8 consideration of, a resolution described in para9
graph (2), it is at any time thereafter in order
10 (even though a previous motion to the same ef11
fect has been disagreed to) for any Member of
12 the respective House to move to proceed to the
13 consideration of the resolution, and all points of
14 order against the resolution (and against con15
sideration of the resolution) are waived. The
16 motion is highly privileged in the House of Rep17
resentatives and is privileged in the Senate and
18 is not debatable. The motion is not subject to
19 amendment, or to a motion to postpone, or to
20 a motion to proceed to the consideration of
21 other business. A motion to reconsider the vote
22 by which the motion is agreed to or disagreed
23 to shall not be in order.
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| Sep 29 @ 4:01 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,333
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Wish I had more time to pore through this but I'm teachin' today so it will have to wait. The more I read of it though, the happier I am that it was rejected, no matter how the market's reacting. Just the fact that it's being pushed through without time for anything approaching proper review sets up red flags, big time.
And the people trying to push it through, from the President down, including Paulson and Frank, from both parties, make me thoroughly sick. 
CPU - I think this was what Eastham was referring to when she said that the House was essentially under martial law for this bill, even exempting the usual rule that legislation has to be available for at least a day for review prior to voting.
[Edited on 9/29/2008 4:06 PM]
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| Sep 29 @ 4:05 PM |
Financial Bailout Defeat |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 8,063
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I for one am glad that it was defeated as there were too many questionable aspects to it for me to not feel uneasy... and the "let's hurry up and do something..anything..even if it is wrong " mentality never makes me 
I personally think the crisis was real.. and it is over...
,,and the governments role was not needed.. except to play politics.. I never felt good about handing over a blank checkbook to the treasury dept.. and always felt that the banking crisis could be solved with the current laws in place.. and that the wrong people wre being bailed out here...
using a shotgun approach when a precision attack was needed never works out in the end..
so.. what were the goals of the bail out..? and did the current drama address those goals to you..??
my answer is yes.. it gave the banking industry time to clean up their mess without most people taking out their money and stuffing it into a mattress...
you must realize that that act by itself.. would have brought the house of cards tumbling down?
and just what good do you think your money would be if all the banks collapsed?
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