| Nov 11, 2008 @ 5:33 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,788
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Just wondering here...if the Fed is privately owned, and they now own a stake in AIG, and quite a large one at that, do we as US citizens, own any part of those resources?
No, we too are owned by the privately owned Fed -- just like our cars, homes, children and everything else that is licensed and taxed.
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 5:51 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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BaNiNBoston
Posts: 44
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 Bail out the banks, Next we bail out the Auto-makers....Wonder when they are going to bail out the working people, with they homes, Medical,,, etc...of course we will never see that....appears we just are renting every thing one thinks they own!!!!!!!!
JMO~~~
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 5:57 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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blondhunger
Posts: 438
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According to the color of law that is practiced by our current legal system which in fact is a contradiction to the common law once practiced under the Constitutional law of the original colonies we are considered individual corporate entities. That definition brings us under the jurisdiction of statutory law practiced in modern courts. This why the opinion of the court is always a decision from the bench and not justice as we consider it to be. The old courts that practiced Common Law which has its root in old British law were the original juris prudence of the states. Then something happened to change it all, and we began this perverted form of law that financially punishes the defendant, costs an arm and a leg for the prosecuting party, and makes the lawyers a killing in order to perpetuate it's own existence. Codes, amendments, and statutes have been imposed by courts that alter the significance of Constitutional Law in themselves being held abhorrent to the Constitution and never intended by our forefathers, who authored this proud document to have been allowed.
Under this perverse form of law, we are under the impression of justice by mock courts upholding this resemblance of a legal system that has been constructed to relieve us of our constitutional rights and put us at the mercy of another jurisdiction of the powers that be. This nation has fallen so far and so hard being that it has been subverted from within by it's own officers of the judicial, legislative, and executive branches. The people of the United States of America are ignorant and unconcerned as their rights are robbed from them as special interests are given as the Czar would have to the noblemen of his palace as the masses starve or languish in unstable conditions waiting for the next contrived crisis to further throw them off track of the truth!
Sound familiar? Anyone?    
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 6:07 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,788
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...appears we just are renting every thing one thinks they own!!!!!!!!
Yup! Do you know what a license is? It is permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal. So you need a license now to travel (a drivers license used to be an occupational license for someone who transported people or property for money), a license to marry (because at one time it was illegal for white men to marry black or Indian women), a business license (permission needed to make a living?)...
One who needs to ask permission to travel, marry, work, etc. is not free. He is a slave and that is why we now need papers. The fourth amendment is dead. One can now be incarcerated for failing to present ID -- even if there is no reasonable suspicion.
The government does not decide how much you have to give them in taxes. It decides how much of the fruit of your labor you can keep. God only ever asked for 10%. Most peons gave 40%. Add up all the taxes and licenses and registrations required by the government here and we are less than peons. And then we want to go and spread our democracy around the world!
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 6:21 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Haban3ro
Posts: 1,197
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Or do what's been done for the last 8 years...borrow from China? It went largely unreported, but in August the PRC announced that they were going to suspend investing/purchasing US stocks and Government bonds. I believe this shutting of the pipeline was one of the factors leading to the need to do a homegrown bailout using "print it as fast as you can" money. The PRC has just announced an economic stimulus package of its own to refocus on their domestic economy. If Walmart won't buy their products by the shipload (because of falling demand), somebody will have to.
PJ O'Rourke had a terrific article in the Weekly Standard this week, which deals with just this aspect of the melt-down. (At the top of the second page) It's pretty long, but it's worth reading. He beats up Republicans with a 10# sledgehammer, so there's something for everybody there.
"We Blew It: a conservative opportunity squandered."
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 6:24 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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Haban3ro
Posts: 1,197
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From the Article I cited above.
Conservatives should never say to voters, "We can lower your taxes." Conservatives should say to voters, "You can raise spending. You, the electorate, can, if you choose, have an infinite number of elaborate and expensive government programs. But we, the government, will have to pay for those programs. We have three ways to pay.
"We can inflate the currency, destroying your ability to plan for the future, wrecking the nation's culture of thrift and common sense, and giving free rein to scallywags to borrow money for worthless scams and pay it back 10 cents on the dollar.
"We can raise taxes. If the taxes are levied across the board, money will be taken from everyone's pocket, the economy will stagnate, and the poorest and least advantaged will be harmed the most. If the taxes are levied only on the wealthy, money will be taken from wealthy people's pockets, hampering their capacity to make loans and investments, the economy will stagnate, and the poorest and the least advantaged will be harmed the most.
"And we can borrow, building up a massive national debt. This will cause all of the above things to happen plus it will fund Red Chinese nuclear submarines that will be popping up in San Francisco Bay to get some decent Szechwan take-out."
Of course, they won't be staying in San Francisco. The cognoscenti realize that the best authentic Chinese food in in Oakland.
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 6:31 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,366
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Thanks Haban, I missed the article but actually I predicted that our loan sources would dry up as the global economy worsened...which was why taxes would have to go up. Is that why the 'global elite' (who are becoming more real to me all the time) felt that it was time to put a Democrat into office?
I have to disagree with your article though - it's not the liberal apparatchniks or the Bill Ayers of the world who will be sitting pretty. I sincerely doubt that any particular political stripe is greatly affected by this - the hedge fund managers, the John Paulsons. and the Fed owners as represented by Hank Paulson will be celebrating with vigor though - John made a mere 3.7 billion by betting that the bubble would burst. He hired Alan Greenspan for his hedge fund - he at least knows how to say thank you to the Fed!
I think that China will be the next superpower, with India right behind them...move over USA, the global elite has spoken.
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 6:38 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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Haban3ro
Posts: 1,197
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'Twasn't my article, but PJ's. I must give credit where it's due.
I don't mind a bit of a downturn in my net worth, but all I have since the divorce is in my 401(k), and that value has fallen by 43% since August. I'm just hoping I can recover some value by the time I turn 70.
I think I'll be fighting the cat for the tuna before this is over...
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:36 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Jankia
Posts: 12,602
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So just when will this 'trickle down' effect kick in?
Sorry but the trickle down effects after charity will only benefit the receivers of said charity.
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| Nov 11, 2008 @ 11:43 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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blondhunger
Posts: 438
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Excuse me Heaven, but what's this BS about it being time to raise taxes. Studies prove that they could double taxes and it would not put a dent in the current deficit. Income do not pay the US Government debt. Take a course, do some reading, wake up. We don't need more taxes. If you want to pay them fine open your wallet, but leave me and anyone who has a brain out of it.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 9:44 AM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Angel54214
Posts: 19,005
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Paulson is giving an update on the $700 million bail out toda...
WASHINGTON – Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is scheduled to give an update today on the $700 billion bailout program for the U.S. financial system.
Critics are complaining that the administration is not being tough enough on the banks who are receiving the assistance, that the original centerpiece of the program — government purchases of troubled assets — has been left to languish and that homeowners struggling with mortgage foreclosures are not getting the help they need to stay in their homes.
And in addition to all of those complaints, the administration is having to contend with a number of industries, led by auto companies, who contend that they deserve a share of the rescue funds.
President-elect Obama, when he met with President Bush at the White House on Monday, urged Bush to support aid for struggling automakers and Democrats in Congress have begun drafting legislation that would give General Motors, Ford and Chrysler access to $25 billion of the rescue funds. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081112/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 10:01 AM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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yashaenka
Posts: 10,289
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This whole idea is one of theoretical ideas. Obama actually believes a nation can change it's prosperity from the bottom up. By giving money to the poor it will raise them up into prosperity. We tried doig that back in the Johnson era all it got us is professional welfare receivers who learned how to milk the system.
A redistribution system is a welfare system. Do those on welfare create jobs or start companies that do? NO
Fannie Mae and Mac along with the 1977 law by the Democrats along with Acorn caused this financial failure when the banks and mortgage lenders saw easy money and got on board with it while Barney Franks and his committee turned a blind eye to it. Obama was in this mix [documented] as a trainer for Acorn to teach them how to protest banks and bank presidents homes to force them to make these risky loans to the poor.
Now Obama and the financial institutions are going to use our tax dollars to reward themselves for what they themselves caused?  These banks will just sit on the money there is no stipulation they need to do anything. The banks are not limited on their Golden parachutes or anything else. The American people are being robbed.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 10:04 AM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 14,695
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so... your SOLUTION to this mess that everyone but me caused is........ 
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 10:13 AM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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Loreli
Posts: 25,815
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Here's one thing that apparently happened to some:
AIG executives may not be making better business decisions while they're asking the federal government for more money, but at least they're getting sneakier! An ABC News investigation has revealed that a conference last week at the Pointe Hilton Squaw Peak Resort in Phoenix was another chance for AIG executives to frolic (on the taxpayers' dime).
The conference was called the Asset Management Conference, and hotel personnel were ordered to not mention AIG either verbally or on signage. An AIG spokesperson told ABC News that there was no AIG signage because they wanted to lower the company's profile. As consumers, I think we're a little too smart to believe that. Something tells me that the company executives knew they'd get heat for another luxury trip.
There were 150 independent financial planners present at the conference, in addition to several top AIG executives. Yet hidden cameras caught top executives not attending sessions, and also captured images of limousines, fancy cocktail parties, and expensive dinners out.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 10:13 AM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,366
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Excuse me Heaven, but what's this BS about it being time to raise taxes. Studies prove that they could double taxes and it would not put a dent in the current deficit.
Blond - studies? You can find them to support anything you please. Do you honestly think it was the lowered taxes that kept the stock market up and the economy going? We've been borrowing to prolong the bubble, and now it's burst and we can't borrow anymore. So where does the money come from? You blithely say that it doesn't go towards the debt. Then why, under Clinton, with somewhat higher taxes, although nowhere near record highs, did we actually pay down the debt?
While you're at it - Add up the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and you'll come up with about a trillion dollars. Add up the deficits of the last 8 years and you'll find about two trillion dollars. Subtract the national debt from 8 years ago from today's and you'll find five trillion dollars. Where did the other three trillion go?
That's a serious question by the way...it's been bugging me since I first noticed it. Guess it's true - a billion here a billion there and before you know it, you're talking real money.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 1:17 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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Haban3ro
Posts: 1,197
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Then why, under Clinton, with somewhat higher taxes, although nowhere near record highs, did we actually pay down the debt? Robert Reich was clever enough to realize that international lenders would still be attracted to the stability of Treasury bills even at lower interest rates. So he cunningly "re-fi'd" the National Debt. This removed some of the burden cost of interest payments to the Treasury, and allowed more tax revenues to be used for spending. The gross indebtness still increased, but at a slower pace, and taxes didn't have to go up as much.
I must give credit to the Clinton administration for this ingenious way to reduce the deficit.
Mind you, Newt Gingrich and the House Republicans deserve some credit for slowing the rate of increase in spending and taxes, but that was way back when they were young and idealist. They soon became as corrupt as anybody else.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 1:19 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Nightowl001
Posts: 8,207
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Studies prove that they could double taxes and it would not put a dent in the current deficit. Income do not pay the US Government debt. If this is true, then I guess we might as well, as a nation, just declare bankruptcy and start over. I don't think Happy Debt Solutions is going to be making unsolicited calls to the White House any time soon to explain how they can lower their interest rates and consolidate their debt. Every single DAY the government goes $10 further in the hole for every man, woman and child in the US. I'm wondering how long it is until we start talking about selling Alaska back to Russia, or maybe Texas to Mexico, in order to generate enough revenue just to pay the interest. 
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 4:27 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect? |
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Haban3ro
Posts: 1,197
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Well, maybe nothing quite so drastic. If Texas were gone, who would keep Oklahoma football fans humble? And where would you go for a good bowl of Chili?
However, if we have to sell something, how about drilling for more oil? It's a commodity that trades well internationally, and whatever is used domestically helps reduce the balance of trade internationally.
Plus if you share revenues from offshore oil production with the states, they won't be coming to DC with their beggging bowls asking for their own bailouts.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 6:12 PM |
What happened to the Bail out trickle down effect?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,366
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And where would you go for a good bowl of Chili?
That's an easy one...Conway, Arkansas. 
Plus if you share revenues from offshore oil production with the states, they won't be coming to DC with their beggging bowls asking for their own bailouts.
Don't count on it. Even with revenue sharing, Alaska led in earmarks.
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