| Nov 18, 2008 @ 8:37 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
landbaron
Posts: 16
|
As I was watching the debates on the automobile company bailouts, I pondered, Why is the US government stepping in to bail out a prized American Comodity like a huge profit generating corporations?? Wow, it suddenly dawned on me that WE the PEOPLE should be bailing out the companies rather than the government entities. Just step up and buy one....After all, isn't it WE that benefit from the US Automakers? But alas, there is a few lessons here? Is it a Political Choice that American Automakers are falling by the wayside, because one party of the big two is following the fashon trends?? Do me a favor and send this around to all your friends and see if I'm not right. I'm saying that MOST but not ALL NEWer American cars are purchased by older Americans and by the Democrats. I may be wrong.
Send this to all your friends and see if they will even respond, Kind of a silent gallop poll When you get this, simply return it to the sender with this simple format and we'll collect the results and share them.
Tom (party goes hereD) 3 american and 1foreign. < you can leave the age stuff out. This will be a little insight as to who needs American Carmakers.
Thanks, and by the way, we all need The Auto Industry here, trust me.
|
|
  |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 8:44 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,615
|
<-- Drives a Chrysler, SO drives a Ford (ok, he's from Detroit)
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 9:07 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
vinnytmd
Posts: 6,004
|
I drive 2 GM's- they are the best cars I have ever had.
Their problem is the Union - not their product
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 9:26 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
Jankia
Posts: 11,909
|
I have 3 Fords and I only buy Ford because I buy them new and dont get rid of them until its time to call salvage.My last one to go to salvage was a hard worked 86 F150.
My 91 F350,my 96 F250 and my 98 Expedition are still great runners but the Expeditions gotta go due to fuel costs.The other two suck there share of gas but they are work trucks and its deductible.
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 9:32 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,662
|
missing the point of the post...you are supposed to go out today and buy a new GM, Ford or Chrysler....
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 9:41 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
Kenn159
Posts: 4,402
|
Their problem is the Union - not their product
Yes their higher cost of doing business is hurting them, but their product is not free of issues.
The higher degree of planned obsolescence is a real problem with current American cars
On the average a 7 year old Japanese car will have the same level of repair maintenance as a 3 year old American car.
Another issue is Japanese car companies take more of the profits and reinvest it back into the company in the form of things like R&D, American companies focus more on short term quarterly profits and CEO bonuses.
It is a very different physiological business strategy that most American consumers are rejecting .
My cars
89 Toyota corolla
94 Saturn SL2
81 Ford Mercury
[Edited on 11/18/2008 9:44 PM]
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 9:43 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
vinnytmd
Posts: 6,004
|
kenn - the unions have them strapped - they have NO money to reinvest. They lose $2 Billion+ per month.
That is the problem in a nutshell
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 9:52 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
Kenn159
Posts: 4,402
|
That's not it in a nut shell, but it is one of their problems.
The average GM worker cost GM $75 when you factor in health care coverage etc, a worker at Toyota cost the company $43.
If they would have taken some of the profits they made from SUV's and reinvested in cars that people actually want, maybe they wouldn't be in this mess.
That's is the difference between short quick profit, and long term planning for the future strategies..
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 10:02 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
vinnytmd
Posts: 6,004
|
kenn - companies do not make profit on a product - Profit is what is leftover after all expenses
They make NO money and havent in years
$1500 of each car they sell is for legacy benefits.
They are doomed by the Unions
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 10:13 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
Kenn159
Posts: 4,402
|
At 3 dollars a gallon they were still trying to push SUV's.
Like I said, if they made a product people want.
GM made $15,000 profit per SUV
.
Quote from Business week
Can GM's SUVs Get Back in the Fast Lane?
The new models are safer, less thirsty, and more comfortable. But even with those improvements and generous buyer incentives, it may not be enough
Lousy fuel economy. Ponderous steering. Chunky ride and handling. Mostly Spartan appointments in the cabin. For those reasons, sales of large sport utility vehicles (SUVs) have taken a beating this year, especially with gasoline prices near $3 a gallon.
So here comes General Motors (GM) getting ready to launch a whole new family of big utes -- and doing so right when gasoline prices are staying high and car buyers are rediscovering cars or flocking to smaller, "crossover" SUVs.
Does that mean GM's new trucks are doomed? Not exactly. GM's engineers spent countless hours and plenty of money to rid their new trucks -- such as the Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon, and Cadillac Escalade, which hit showrooms starting in January -- of many of the compromises that SUV owners have had to put up with.
PROFITS OF YESTERYEAR. Make no mistake. The big SUV business is shrinking. It's down 10% this year, and that's despite employee-pricing deals and big rebates. In the long run, it seems likely the market will continue eroding in terms of both size and its ability to deliver big profits. GM acknowledges that buyers won't snap up the nearly 1 million large SUVs they did in 2002 and 2003.
GM and other auto makers also will be hard-pressed to make the $15,000-plus in per-vehicle profits they made back then. "We aren't riding on these [new] vehicles to save the company," says Gary White, GM vice-president and vehicle line executive for full-sized trucks. "There are a number of other attractive alternatives in the market."
GM figures some 750,000 large SUVs will be sold each year. Since GM has 62% share of that market, the company expects to sell close to 500,000. Vice-Chairman Robert Lutz says the new trucks are good enough to steal market share from competitors like Ford (F ), Toyota (TM ), and Nissan (NSANY ). Says Lutz: "It's realistic to assume the segment won't grow, but we will be taking share."
SMOOTHER RIDE. Given the improvements on the new models, GM has a shot at winning some converts. All of the SUVs in the family are more aerodynamic. And mileage is slightly improved.
A new family of engines -- which include a feature that shuts down four of the eight cylinders when cruising at highway speeds -- will boost fuel economy to 20 miles per gallon for a four-wheel drive Tahoe. That beats any competitor. Ford's four-wheel-drive Expedition gets 18.3 miles on a gallon of gas, while both the Toyota Sequoia and the Nissan Armada get 18.7 mpg.
White says GM also pushed his team to smooth out the ride. The frame is now stiffer, and a new suspension will enable the large utes to better absorb bumps. The stiffer frame also allows for a wider body, making it more stable. Add in a new, more precise steering system, and White says the new trucks should drive as smoothly as some of the crossover SUVs.
INTERIOR DESIGN. GM is packing the new Tahoe and its stablemates with more standard safety features. Each one offers Stabilitrak -- GM's stability-control system --standard. GM is also offering side-curtain air bags as protection in case of a rollover -- they're standard on the Cadillac Escalade and the GMC Yukon Denali, but not on the Tahoe.
Inside, the new Tahoe looks and feels at least a generation beyond the trucks sold today. There are metallic accents around the vents and wood surrounds the center console. The current trucks have cheap-feeling plastic buttons and knobs, but inside the new models the controls are more solid and the craftsmanship is much improved.
"The trucks look great," says Joseph Phillippi, a former Wall Street analyst who now runs his own consulting firm called AutoTrends. "A lot of the things we used to fault them on have been fixed."
All these improvements cost money, however. White says GM was able to offset some of the added cost of upgrades in fuel economy and handling with efficiencies in purchasing and assembly. But that doesn't cover the whole tab. "The trucks have more content, but we offset the cost with some savings elsewhere," White says. "It's not thousands of dollars more."
PRICING PRESSURE. Still, GM will have to get a better price or significantly reduce incentives to boost profits. Lutz says the new SUVs should have better margins than the ones the company is currently selling.
The challenge will be selling the new models with lower incentives. Right now, GM is offering employee prices plus another $3,000 cash back, says one Dallas dealer. That adds up to $11,000 off a SUV with a sticker price of $36,000 to $37,000.
GM hopes the fact that the SUVs are all-new will allow the company to lower incentives and increase profits. The current trucks have been on the market for seven years and are starting to feel tired. Says Mark LaNeve, GM-North America's vice-president of sales, service, & marketing: "Any time you have new product, you get better pricing."
But with higher costs and the possibility of lower sales, GM will still have to reap profits from the rest of its lineup. "The profits won't be as great," Phillippi says. "It's going to have to come from crossov
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 10:24 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
Kenn159
Posts: 4,402
|
The rest of the article
But with higher costs and the possibility of lower sales, GM will still have to reap profits from the rest of its lineup. "The profits won't be as great," Phillippi says. "It's going to have to come from crossover SUVs or its passenger car lineup." For a company that has relied on big trucks to carry the load for so long, that won't come easy.
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 11:09 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,662
|
SEPTEMBER 21, 2005
NEWS ANALYSIS
By David Welch
those profits are misleading as they were talking about "GM acknowledges that buyers won't snap up the nearly 1 million large SUVs they did in 2002 and 2003. models" .... which..if I remember right..were basically a standard truck chassis /engine with added frills...
read..cheap to make...
[Edited on 11/18/2008 11:11 PM]
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 11:11 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
Nightowl001
Posts: 7,506
|
Isn't it interesting that the OP suggests not that the auto manufacterers offer me a product I will find attractive and worth it's cost, but that I buy something I don't need in order to bail them out, instead of letting my tax dollars bail them out? (Funny, I thought if our tax dollars were doing it, it WAS 'we, the people' paying for it.)
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 11:30 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
bardnsage
Posts: 1,171
|
I know,,,, instead of a bailout, we use the cash to fund a "government" car. One that is good on gas, reliable, and easy to maintain. No frills, or extras. Just manual windows, air cooled flat 4 cylinder, basic controls, manual transmission,,,,
let the big three "BID" on the production of it.
then the taxpayers can buy it again,,,, cheap.
we could call,,,,
"The People's Car".
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 11:42 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
daisy315
Posts: 4,946
|
yup, I'm sure that all those folks that can't make their mortgage payments or don't have a job are just gonna run out first thing in the morning and head to their nearest GM dealership and plunk down their credit cards and point to the car of their choice..and say.. gimme that one over yonder...
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 18, 2008 @ 11:48 PM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
lefthandedluckie
Posts: 6,386
|
I still see the unions being blamed for corporate mismanagement! It never ends! For years GM, Ford and Chrysler have known that gas economy is needed in all American vehicles. Yet, their need for bigger profits drove them to continue to make gas guzzlers! Now, they are in dire straights!
Do we need these car makers? You better believe we do! Millions of jobs are at stake if these corporations go under! Will they if we don't help them? NO!
They should all three file for bankruptcy protection and downsize! Remove all the management personnel that is in place, now! Replace with new people with a vision of cutting costs, being lean and mean and producing fuel efficient cars and trucks!
Corporate policy has always overlooked the volatile gasoline market since the 70"s! Now, it has come home to roost! That is their fault!
|
| |
|
| Nov 19, 2008 @ 12:07 AM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
bardnsage
Posts: 1,171
|
AGREED!!!!
Bankruptcy protection, and reorganize and downsize.
Get rid of the managers who fail to understand the customer and get rid of the managers who insist on making the cars the same old way. Import ALL OF THE PARTS FROM CHINA, and close the money sucking production facilities.
AUTO-WORKERS have had above average pay, above average benefits, and above average time off since the 70's. They complain about how hard it is too make ends meet, and I finnally find the cause of the mysterious rattle in my car,,,, a soda bottle in the door panel.
Automation got rid of half of them,,,, and outsourcing can finish the job.
The drop in supply will cause other exisitng compaines to tool up and fill the void, or new compaines will be created for this purpose. But I bet they locate in Right To Work states if they stay domestic.
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 19, 2008 @ 2:11 AM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
SensualGemini
Posts: 6,920
|
Knight: (Funny, I thought if our tax dollars were doing it, it WAS 'we, the people' paying for it.)
...I am thinking you are on the right track, but since it is the US taxpayer that is footing the bill, the government can send me a funded gift card for one new vehicle and when I "cash it in," I get the vehicle... and then Detroit gets the money.
...At least then, I will realize something for my tax dollars.
=========
=========
Kenn: The higher degree of planned obsolescence is a real problem with current American cars
...Yet, your oldest car is American made. 
=========
=========
...On a different note, Ford is making some major profits in their ultra modern facility in Brazil, while the taxpayer is expected to support their operations in the US.
Ford's most advanced assembly plant operates in rural Brazil
...Ford is making claim they would love to build such an efficient plant in the US, but the UAW union will not allow it.
...I would imagine this has to do with existing contracts, but I cannot think of any reason why they cannot start building a new plant and when the union contract runs out, here is a job, as the old factory is being closed.
...And then again, south of the border will work for less than the our minimum wage.
...The union auto worker makes $25 to $30/hour, which is the average median income in the US. Sure, they have a benefit plan and is that not what the Liberals want for everyone?
...Detroit cries about what they pay out in labor, but that includes the retirement for many, many thousands and if they had invested the money that is considered today's "benefits," I don't get it... it is like the Fed's crying Social Security is running out, while there sits some $40 Trillion they stole into the General Fund.
...The fact is, management has made many and ongoing major screw ups, while still being paid way in the hell too much money. Management can cry all they want to, but they are ultimately responsible for the decisions causing Detroit to lose money, including not changing with the economy, wants and needs of the customer.
...Regardless, there is no doubt, that the US can turn out as fine a product as anyplace in the world. If Detroit cannot do it, then let them close and somebody else will fill the need. Of course, that would include restricting imports, as they can pay a decent wage right here, if they want to sell it here.
.
|
| |
|
| Nov 19, 2008 @ 2:37 AM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway???
|
|
lacyvsq
Posts: 6,173
|
Well, I am presently traveling in an 11 year-old Mercury Grand Marquis, but I have my eye on a couple of new American wheels: Eco-Fueler and Aptera.
...and then the idea of building my own XR3 also holds some appeal...and would do very little to support the American economy...
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 19, 2008 @ 2:43 AM |
Who Needs American Cars anyway??? |
|
grumblebear
Posts: 10,559
|
The Senator from Montana made a good point, 25 billion, to keep the big 3 running for a few months is 3 years budget for the state of Montana...
I'm glad I don't have to make this decision...
if they don't and GM, Ford, and Chrysler liquidate... we may as well send troops to Detroit and burn the city down, and force relocate the population.... kind of like New Orleans, except a larger population
if they do lend the money, the car companies will be back in 3-6 months for more...
Economists are expecting this downturn to last into 2011, Unemployment is expected to peak next April at 17%-19%, but if the 3 fail, double the percentage... we're talking Great Depression 2
|
| |
|
|
|
|