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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:09 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SimplyImp


Posts: 4,648
President Would Slap More Taxes on Those Who Make Over $250K to Fund Health Care

By EMILY FRIEDMAN
March 2, 2009

President Barack Obama's tax proposal – which promises to increase taxes for those families with incomes of $250,000 or more -- has some Americans brainstorming ways to decrease their pay, even if it's just by a dollar.

In the wake of Obama's tax proposal being unveiled, some Americans are doing everything they can think of to fall beneath the $250,000 mark so they don't have to pay more in taxes under the plan.

A 63-year-old attorney based in Lafayette, La., who asked not to be named, told ABCNews.com that she plans to cut back on her business to get her annual income under the quarter million mark should the Obama tax plan be passed by Congress and become law.

So far, Obama's tax plan is being looked at skeptically by both Democrats and Republicans and therefore may not pass at all.

"We are going to try to figure out how to make our income $249,999.00," she said.

"We have to find a way out where we can make just what we need to just under the line so we can benefit from Obama's tax plan," she added. "Why kill yourself working if you're going to give it all away to people who aren't working as hard?"

The attorney says that in order to decrease her income she'll have to let go of clients, some of whom she's been counseling for more than a decade.

"This means I'll have to tell some of my clients we can't help them and being more selective in general about who we help," she said. "I hate to do it."

Obama's budget proposal calls for $989 billion in new taxes over the next 10 years, most of which will be earned from increased taxes on individuals who make more than $200,000 and from families who make more than $250,000.

The expiration of the Bush administration's tax cuts at the end of 2010 would garner an estimated $338 billion, $179 billion would come from the elimination of some itemized deductions for higher-income taxpayers and $118 billion would be brought in from a hike in the capital gains tax. The remaining $353 billion would come from taxes on businesses.

Dr. Sharon Poczatek, who runs her own dental practice in Boulder, Colo., said that she too is trying to figure out ways to get out of paying the taxes proposed in Obama's plan.

"I've put thought into how to get under $250,000," said Poczatek. "It would mean working fewer days which means having fewer employees, seeing fewer patients and taking time off."

"Generally it means being less productive," she said.

"The motivation for a lot of people like me – dentists, entrepreneurs, lawyers – is that the more you work the more money you make," said Poczatek. "But if I'm going to be working just to give it back to the government -- it's de-motivating and demoralizing."

Can Obama's Tax Plan Be Gamed?
Gary Schatsky, a financial adviser and the president of N.Y.-based Objectiveadvice.com, said that it is possible to successfully remove yourself from the bracket Obama plans to target in his new plan.

"It's very possible that there are plenty of things you can do with general tax planning techniques – attempting to recognizes loses, pushing gains to years when your income is lower and increasing retirement plan contributions – to come below $250,000," said Schatsky.

"But Obama's proposal has yet to be hammered out and the devil is in the details," he added.

Because we have a marginal tax system, said Schatsky, what Obama's plan means is that the amount of tax you pay on each incremental dollar is higher only when your income is pushed into a higher tax bracket.

"But to focus keeping your income below a quarter million dollars is not going to have any spectacular magic for individual tax payers," said Schatsky. "The difference between $249,999 and $251,000 will probably have zero tax impact."

Schatsky said that the incentive to get under $250,000 may be more so if the tax plan outlines that an individual who goes over a prescribed limit would face a reduced value of their itemized deductions.

"If the value of all your itemized deductions goes from a 33 percent level to a 28 percent level than there would be a reason for people to do dramatic things to reduce their incomes," said Schatsky.

Peter Morici, a professor of business at The Robert H. Smith School of Business at the University of Maryland, agrees that while it may be possible to sneak around the taxes, it won't be as simple as some may think.

"You have to be pretty close to $250,000 in terms of your income to get underneath it," said Morici.

Does Obama Tax Plan Promote Class Warfare?
Morici says that he believes Obama's tax proposal could spark a kind of class war.

"What Obama is doing is pitting the poor against the upper middle class," said Morici. "He'll tax the rich for the health benefits everyone else wants."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/Story?id=6975547&page=1


cont.

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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:13 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
Gallows_Humor


Posts: 16,779
stupidity at it's best...


I can see it now..." nope... don't want to take this case as my fee just might make me a million dollars...and I only want to make 250 K...

I'll show that Obama just who is smart...."







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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:15 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SimplyImp


Posts: 4,648
cont...

Obama has said the new taxes on those making over $250,000 would go toward a fund that would support a gradual move to universal health care coverage.
Supporters of Obama's budget plans say that those who are at the top and complaining need to look at the bigger picture.

"Those who are going to be taxed more are obviously going to complain but I think they may miss the point," said Lisa Rotenstein, the chair of the Harvard Healthcare Policy Group at the Institute of Politics.


"This could have broader implications for the American economy as a whole – improved health care means a healthier workforce that is more productive," said Rotenstein.

But Colorado dentist Poczatek says those who support the increase in taxes misunderstand what it means for those who will end up paying more.

"I'd like these people to know that we pay a lot of taxes, and have been paying a lot of taxes through the past administration," said Pcozatek.

"We make a lot of money, it's true, but we also already pay a lot of taxes," she said.

"So maybe we got a little bit successful but we worked very hard," she said. "It's taken us over 30 years and it didn't happen overnight. Every day is a lot of work.

"We're working for it and we're still overtaxed."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/Story?id=6975547&page=1


[Edited on 3/3/2009 6:22 PM]
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:16 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
eastham


Posts: 9,697
Just last week, UBS announced that it was making available the names of wealthy Americans who had been using their bank to shelter income from the prying eyes of the IRS. If their tax rate was zero, these guys would be asking for a rebate! Jeez. When is enough, enough?
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:19 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SimplyImp


Posts: 4,648
Yeah, I wonder how "stupid" they'll be when there are no wealthy to support all of those that expect the free ride.

They'll still have the capacity to earn whatever they want - WHEN they want to - and when they are not penalized for being able to earn their own income.

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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:25 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
Gallows_Humor


Posts: 16,779
there will always be profit made... if you don't wish to make it ..step aside and get out of the way of the people who do...


basic math...

50 percent of a dollar is better than no dollar......
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:37 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SimplyImp


Posts: 4,648
I wouldn't say that earning $250,000.00 per year is "not earning a dollar".

But, it is stupid to work hard to support someone who can't be bothered. And if it means keeping your income under that $250,000.00 mark.. I'll go for that! I can still live very well on that.. AND I get to keep it.

All these excess taxes mean, that the wealthy will find new and innovative ways to hide their income

...hmmm... and this coming from someone who earns less than poverty wage?
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:44 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
Jankia


Posts: 14,851
What the heck,he'll only lose 3% of the vote in the next election for doing it.

AP-The presidential candidate told senior citizens in Ohio that it is unfair for middle-class earners to pay the Social Security tax “on every dime they make,” while millionaires and billionaires pay it on only “a very small percentage of their income.”

President Would Slap More Taxes on Those Who Make Over $250K to Fund Health Care

OK,Social Security is already $12.8 trillion in debt so we increase the Social Security tax on the rich people that hire the poor...to help the poor with healthcare when they go out of work because the rich layed them off in trying to stay under the $250,000 ceiling.
That somehow makes alot more sense than taking those additional taxes and paying off our SS debt.
Of course it does,who the hell thats holding an office in government cares about SS when they'll all be dead by the time the Social Security Trust Fund runs out of money anyway.





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Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:52 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
onoudn


Posts: 6,233
Yeah, I wonder how "stupid" they'll be when there are no wealthy to support all of those that expect the free ride.

They'll still have the capacity to earn whatever they want - WHEN they want to - and when they are not penalized for being able to earn their own income.

I'm confused as to why so many think the rich are being penalized by being expected to pay at the same tax rate as everyone else ? And just who are these imaginary people that expect a free ride ? What are the conservatives mind readers or something ? What qualifies as a person that's expecting a free ride exactly ? The welfare systems has been revised to the point that it's hardly easy to get on it. I know a lady with three kids that was expected to take a minimum wage job after a time on welfare, or be cut off completely. She was married and her husband supported her. Now he's disabled and they are divorced. The DA can't go after his disability payment. And she is just stuck without any real training or ability to feed her kids. Is she expecting a free ride by wanting the government to help her in a time of need, considering she's paid into the system all her life ?
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:11 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
robodad


Posts: 9,248
She was married and her husband supported her. Now he's disabled and they are divorced. The DA can't go after his disability payment. And she is just stuck without any real training or ability to feed her kids. Is she expecting a free ride by wanting the government to help her in a time of need, considering she's paid into the system all her life ?
You're exagerating
Maybe she started paying into it when she started working, but you only mentioned that her husband supported her, therefore I'm taking it that she never worked and (therefore) never paid into "the system" at all. (I agree that it's terrible what happened to her)
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:14 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SensualGemini


Posts: 13,986
...For certain, Welfare pays better...

...The recent Stimulus Plan reversed Clinton's "welfare-to-work provisions," while also removing a fixed $16.5 Billion per state annual, to funding per number of recipients, while adding at least another $4 Billion per state to the annual budget.

...Arguably, the largest influx in Welfare cost since it's conception of at least $200 Billion for 2009.

...The welfare guidelines are for 200% of the poverty rate and for a family of 5, husband, wife and three kids, that would be 25,790 X 2, or $51,580 annual for all benefits, or in Alaska, that would be $64,500 annual.

...For the same family, about $8,400 annual is in Federal food stamps, for which there is no sales tax collected and almost $5,000 in Federal refunds, rather than paying any income taxes. Meanwhile, their kids eat breakfast and lunch for free at school, with summer meal programs and Mom and Dad can attend college or a trade school for free with day care!

...Oh, don't forget the discounted loans for a new house and if you have to file bankruptcy, no problem as the new rule is that you don't have to spend anymore than 38% of your "expendable" monthly income for this new house you could not afford and the government will pick up the balance.

...How many with 3 kids and working, are making over $50 grand/year, before all the rest of the perks?

...According to Obama, anyone that is working for a living, is a friggen idiot.


======================


[Edited on 3/3/2009 7:28 PM]
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:19 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SensualGemini


Posts: 13,986

O: And just who are these imaginary people that expect a free ride ?

...Since over $1 Trillion will be spent on Welfare in 2009, it should not be too hard to find one or two.

...As a matter of fact, I am rather certain you qualify for some benefits.


===========
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:28 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SimplyImp


Posts: 4,648
Obama has said the new taxes on those making over $250,000 would go toward a fund that would support a gradual move to universal health care coverage.

He should have checked with Canadians on how effective our "universal health care" is... it's in an absolute shambles.

My brother became a US citizen due to the fact that he was paying 54% of his income to the government... and that is just wrong! And he's not some high flying business owner... he's a journeyman machinist who puts in a lot of physical hours and labor to attain the level of income he wants.

He also had to pay higher monthly fees for medical, as he earned more. And that is something they introduced a number of years ago due to the fact that people abuse the medical system. Everyone used to pay the same amount for medical coverage.

Yes, this so-called wonderful medical system - three months wait to see a specialist. Six month wait to get an MRI. YEARS on a waiting list to get surgeries.

Hospitals shutting down, patients lying (and dying) in corridors because there aren't enough beds for them. And it isn't a lack of beds, it's a lack of money to pay the surgeons and nursing staff.

Doctors are only allowed to see so many patients per day. Walk-in clinics closed early because they have seen their quota of patients.

Doctors have a cap on how many patients they can have... I have not had a family doctor for 5 years as there are none "taking new patients". Once you have a doctor - whether you like them or not, your chances of changing are slim, as there aren't any available.

Before implementing health care for the masses, the US should take a good hard look at what socialized health care isn't doing in other countries, particularly the neighbor to the north.




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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:28 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
robodad


Posts: 9,248
In the wake of Obama's tax proposal being unveiled, some Americans are doing everything they can think of to fall beneath the $250,000 mark so they don't have to pay more in taxes under the plan.
Aww, those "poor" people
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:33 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SensualGemini


Posts: 13,986
.

...Obama visits Canada and comes back with this siht of how to tax more.




.
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:45 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
SimplyImp


Posts: 4,648
In the wake of Obama's tax proposal being unveiled, some Americans are doing everything they can think of to fall beneath the $250,000 mark so they don't have to pay more in taxes under the plan.

Aww, those "poor" people

So, how about this. Because "voter a" makes $50,000.00 per year, and your neighbor, "voter b" only makes $25,000.00 per year - that we combine it and you take home $37,500.00 and so does your neighbor - even though he doesn't have the qualifications you do, didn't spend any money to attend any college or university education and doesn't have the motivation to earn more.

But wait, there's the druggie down the street that doesn't earn anything and doesn't want to work, but he deserves a handout, so now, your combined income has to be split now three ways. So now you only get $25,000.00 per year.. but hey.. that's the system you want!





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Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:53 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
DiamondRain


Posts: 12,256
Imagine that!

Those greedy bastards are tired of supporting the 95% of the rest of the population, while being vilified and pummeled by Obama and the Democrats, and are trying to weasel out of it!

4 million Americans pay half the bills for the entire 305 million other people living here (legally and ILLEGALLY).

How much more do you want to squeeze out of these people? How much more you think they are going to tolerate before they pull the plug, tell you to stick it and take their capital, their companies, and the jobs that go with them somewhere else, or just close up shop.

If you confiscated EVERYTHING they earn it still won't pay the tab for the drunken spending binge Obama and the Democrats are engaging in.

I thought slavery was abolished in this country. Who would have thought it would take a black president to try to bring it back.


[Edited on 3/3/2009 8:13 PM]
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 8:29 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
Gallows_Humor


Posts: 16,779
If you confiscated EVERYTHING they earn it still won't pay the tab for the drunken spending binge Obama and the Democrats are engaging in.


step back from the keyboard and do the math...
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 8:32 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
DiamondRain


Posts: 12,256
It's already been done by numerous economists. It is correct and accurate.

Obama is spending more than could possibly be paid by those earning over $250k.

The ONLY way to possibly pay for all his reckless spending would be to impose HUGE tax increases on the middle class. That will be coming later and he knows it.
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Mar 3, 2009 @ 8:35 PM Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan    
Gallows_Humor


Posts: 16,779
show me.......



the money....


actually..I would like to see the figures...
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